2013 Ford Fusion Debuts

[akirby]

Hybrids cost more to start out but hybrids also sell for more when you're done with them. Are you factoring that in your cost analysis?

 

No, because you didn't say whether you intended to keep it past 6 years or estimated what it would be worth. But 4 cylinder models will also fetch somewhat of a premium over less fuel efficient models so you'd really need to get real numbers and factor them in.

 

I value features, performance (although don't need extremely high performance obviously), overall cost, environmental impact, fuel economy etc.

 

It's pretty clear that you want a hybrid and all the number crunching is just your attempt to rationalize it. Consider it rationalized and go get one.

[iuswingman]

No, because you didn't say whether you intended to keep it past 6 years or estimated what it would be worth. But 4 cylinder models will also fetch somewhat of a premium over less fuel efficient models so you'd really need to get real numbers and factor them in.

 

It's pretty clear that you want a hybrid and all the number crunching is just your attempt to rationalize it. Consider it rationalized and go get one.

 

Whatever, i'm not going to continue debating it as it's hijacking the thread.

Edited January 26, 2012 by iuswingman

[FordBuyer]

please let us know where the 19k 2012XLT Escapes are, we need as many as we can get and thats cheaper than we can buy them as a dealer from ford...........

 

I said "about" same price as two year old CPO Escape. I get sales newsletters from Bill Brown all the time in mail. Latest one was quoting new 2012 Ecapes for about $20,000 for XLT and $23,000 for Limited. They quoted Focus SE for around $17,000. Those are A/Z plan pricing which is 80% of Bill Brown's business.

 

As for used Focus, I have noticed that in last year or so their prices have dropped around here on lots as new Focus bombards public streets. I expect same to happen to present Escape as new Escape hits street in large numbers. Right now, auto auction sites are pretty bare which has held up used vehicle prices, but that will change as manufacturers ramp up production and leased vehicles start being turned in again over time. I know I wouldn't pay no $19,000 for 2010 Escape except for maybe fully optioned Limited model.

[StevenCaylor]

I hope Ford doesn't jam the moonroof down our throats like they do on the current Fusion. The current hybrid model is a perfect example. Officially the moonroof is not standard on the base model. There is only one standalone option and that's the premium floor mats. Any other option, even one of the optional colors like white platinum, and you have to accept the moonroof.

 

Those of you who saw the new Fusion, how many of them had moonroofs?

Edited January 26, 2012 by StevenCaylor

[FordBuyer]

I hope Ford doesn't jam the moonroof down our throats like they do on the current Fusion. The current hybrid model is a perfect example. Ofiicially the moonroof is not standard on the base model. There is only one standalone option and that's the premium floor mats. Any other option, even one of the optional colors like white platinum, and you have to accept the moonroof.

 

Those of you who saw the new Fusion, how many of them had moonroofs?

 

Ford does like to market the "Moon and Tune" packages and they are a good deal. I know I really lucked out and got my moonroof on my 2002 Taurus SES Sport for free as they were marketing no charge moonroof packages back then. I love the moonroof as I keep shade pulled back at all times to let the sun in. 10 years later, it still works fine and no leaks. But yes, the option packages get more annoying every year as you can't pick and choose what you want and don't want. Good for the manufacture and profits and bad for the consumer who wants certain options and doesn't want to pay for unwanted options.

[Deanh]

I said "about" same price as two year old CPO Escape. I get sales newsletters from Bill Brown all the time in mail. Latest one was quoting new 2012 Ecapes for about $20,000 for XLT and $23,000 for Limited. They quoted Focus SE for around $17,000. Those are A/Z plan pricing which is 80% of Bill Brown's business.

 

As for used Focus, I have noticed that in last year or so their prices have dropped around here on lots as new Focus bombards public streets. I expect same to happen to present Escape as new Escape hits street in large numbers. Right now, auto auction sites are pretty bare which has held up used vehicle prices, but that will change as manufacturers ramp up production and leased vehicles start being turned in again over time. I know I wouldn't pay no $19,000 for 2010 Escape except for maybe fully optioned Limited model.

A plan on an XLS is $22373.11 with no options on a 101 a package barring synch. So you REALLY need to read the fine print....somewhere it will say NET price after rebates in LEIU of subveened rates.....LOVE those sales newsletters...typical loss leader BS....prices on used Focuss have skyrocketed in Auctions, for the life of me I dont know why....

[FordBuyer]

A plan on an XLS is $22373.11 with no options on a 101 a package barring synch. So you REALLY need to read the fine print....somewhere it will say NET price after rebates in LEIU of subveened rates.....LOVE those sales newsletters...typical loss leader BS....prices on used Focuss have skyrocketed in Auctions, for the life of me I dont know why....

 

I was just on Auto Trader site and saw a nice looking 2012 Focus SE sedan with powershift trans in I believe midnite blue at Bill Brown used car site with 3,000 miles and full warranty for $16,000. It had decent list of features like power windows and so on. Most others were in same price range on Auto Trader. So if you are patient and get around online, you can find very good prices.

[Deanh]

I was just on Auto Trader site and saw a nice looking 2012 Focus SE sedan with powershift trans in I believe midnite blue at Bill Brown used car site with 3,000 miles and full warranty for $16,000. It had decent list of features like power windows and so on. Most others were in same price range on Auto Trader. So if you are patient and get around online, you can find very good prices.

interesting, I have a Family friend that is hunting for a used SES 2010 Focus, has found 3, they are all around 15k.....oh, and its Kone Blue, and when does $16992 round out to 16k, and its 4420 miles, would you like the vin?........................get on Browns website and you will see first hand what i am saying is on the money, his 2010 SES Focii also happen to be hovering around 15-16k............NEXT!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Deanh

[FordBuyer]

A plan on an XLS is $22373.11 with no options on a 101 a package barring synch. So you REALLY need to read the fine print....somewhere it will say NET price after rebates in LEIU of subveened rates.....LOVE those sales newsletters...typical loss leader BS....prices on used Focuss have skyrocketed in Auctions, for the life of me I dont know why....

 

Price quoted was for XLT, not XLS, but I assumed it didn't include $795 destination charge, dealer "document" fees, and so on which would bring price up at least $1,000+ more. Price did include all the rebates and incentives that you do have to pay sales tax on also. Don't forget also that new vehicle prices are generally cheaper in Detroit area than places like CA for example. Bill Brown and Varsity in Ann Arbor are very high volume Ford dealers and undercut most other Ford dealers around here by hundreds of dollars. You generally don't have to special order any Ford vehicle with them as your vehicle is probably sitting in their inventory that is considerable.

[Deanh]

Price quoted was for XLT, not XLS, but I assumed it didn't include $795 destination charge, dealer "document" fees, and so on which would bring price up at least $1,000+ more. Price did include all the rebates and incentives that you do have to pay sales tax on also. Don't forget also that new vehicle prices are generally cheaper in Detroit area than places like CA for example. Bill Brown and Varsity in Ann Arbor are very high volume Ford dealers and undercut most other Ford dealers around here by hundreds of dollars. You generally don't have to special order any Ford vehicle with them as your vehicle is probably sitting in their inventory that is considerable.

I can whole heartedly assure you the invoice on the same car does NOT differentiate between dealers..........that is AGAINST the Law....and that what raise my ire....you are COMPLETELY mis-informed...I just hope no-one else here takes your so called insight to heart........ :shades: Do you work at Bill Brown by chance?....LMAO!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Deanh

[FordBuyer]

interesting, I have a Family friend that is hunting for a used SES 2010 Focus, has found 3, they are all around 15k.....oh, and its Kone Blue, and when does $16992 round out to 16k, and its 4420 miles, would you like the vin?........................get on Browns website and you will see first hand what i am saying is on the money, his 2010 SES Focii also happen to be hovering around 15-16k............NEXT!

 

 

Sorry, I was $992 off going by my shot short term memory. And a terrible 1440 miles off on odometer. And I'm sure they wouldn't take $16,500 as it seems to be sitting on lot for last couple weeks at that low price. So who the hell is going to spend $16,000 on 2010 Focus if you can get much better 2012 for about same price? The point is I can get a 2012 Escape for a little more than $20,000 and Limited for a little over $23,000 and an almost new Focus SE for under $17,000. And the sales people trying to sell a 2010 Focus for $16,000 must be smoking crack in their little, modular office.

 

Primary Information about this vehicle:

AT Car ID: AT-12BB824B

Price $16,992

Mileage 4,420

Body Style Sedan

Exterior Color Kona Blue Metallic

Interior Color Charcoal Black

Engine 4 Cylinder Gasoline

Drive Type 2 wheel drive - front

Fuel Type Flexible Fuel

Doors Four Door

Stock No. D10184

 

 

INSTALLED OPTIONS

3 Point Rear Seatbelts

AM/FM Radio

Adjustable Head Rests

Air Conditioning

Airbag Deactivation

Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS)

Anti-Theft Device(s)

Auto Express Down Window

Auto Headlight Delay

Automatic Shoulder Belts

Auxiliary Audio Input

Beverage Holder (s)

Body-Color Bumpers

Bucket Seats

CD Player in Dash

Cargo Light

Center Console

Child Safety Locks

Cloth Upholstery

Color Coded Mirrors

Compass

Dual Air Bags

Electronic Stability Control

Floor Mats

Fog Lamps

Folding Rear Seats

Halogen Headlights

Intermittent Wipers

MP3 Player

Multi-Function Steering Wheel

Outside Temperature Gauge

Power D

[03 LS]

...

but better fuel economy also helps lower the long term cost, even for people that only drive 6,000 miles. That's still around $500 a year in savings and can still make up the difference between buying an i4 and a hybrid with similar features about 6 years or so as shown in the previous post.

You didn't say performance was one of your criteria. You only mentioned fuel savings.

 

And there is no way you're going to make up the cost difference of a hybrid over a non hybrid I4 Fusion in 6 years. Your math is all wrong.

 

You're not going to save more than $200 in fuel per year with the hybrid vs. non hybrid so you're only saving $1200 over 6 years while you're paying at least a $3K premium up front and probably closer to $5K.

...

$200 a year in fuel savings is about right, in your situation.

I bought a 2011 Milan Hybrid to replace my V6 LS. I drive ~22,000 miles a year, and my fuel savings is ~$1,200/year compared to my old 21mpg v6. When you drive only 6000 miles a year, and compares to an already high mpg I4 car, hybrid won't save you much in fuel cost.

 

Regarding your other "factor", buying hybrid for better performance than base I4, I do that from time to time. But do expect your fuel savings to disappear: when I did that, my 41/38 mpg Milan would return me 34mpg, the 40/38 Camry won't fare any better, I think.

 

I just hate to see you make an objective decision based on incorrect assumptions and data.

[Deanh]

Sorry, I was $992 off going by my shot short term memory. And a terrible 1440 miles off on odometer. And I'm sure they wouldn't take $16,500 as it seems to be sitting on lot for last couple weeks at that low price. So who the hell is going to spend $16,000 on 2010 Focus if you can get much better 2012 for about same price? The point is I can get a 2012 Escape for a little more than $20,000 and Limited for a little over $23,000 and an almost new Focus SE for under $17,000. And the sales people trying to sell a 2010 Focus for $16,000 must be smoking crack in their little, modular office.

 

 

if you took the time to check Bill browns inventory of 2010 focii and what the are asking, then watch out for an FBI bust....lot of crack over there..... :shades:

[Deanh]

Fordbuyer, my apologies for raining on your parade, but understand, everynow and then I encounter exactly waht we are discussing whena so called "educated" buyer walks in my office...." I can get this for 16k at... " ( well, its 169, not 16 ) " I wouldnt but a 2010 for 15 ( well check bill browns web site, seems thats the going rate EVERYWHERE ) " and the coup de gras.... " They buy cars cheaper than you because they are bigger" ( NO THEY DONT ) If I had a dollar for everytime I had heard reasoning along those lines, i would have MORE than two mortgages....

[FordBuyer]

Fordbuyer, my apologies for raining on your parade, but understand, everynow and then I encounter exactly waht we are discussing whena so called "educated" buyer walks in my office...." I can get this for 16k at... " ( well, its 169, not 16 ) " I wouldnt but a 2010 for 15 ( well check bill browns web site, seems thats the going rate EVERYWHERE ) " and the coup de gras.... " They buy cars cheaper than you because they are bigger" ( NO THEY DONT ) If I had a dollar for everytime I had heard reasoning along those lines, i would have MORE than two mortgages....

 

 

Hey Dean:

 

How's this deal from private seller within 25 miles of my home? 2012 Focus Hatch no less:

 

AT Car ID: AT-12A2D416

Price $14,900

Mileage 10,780

Body Style Hatchback

Exterior Color Red

Interior Color Tan

Engine 4 Cylinder Gasoline

Transmission Automatic

Drive Type 2 wheel drive - front

Fuel Type Flexible Fuel

Doors Four Door

 

 

Vehicle Description

INSTALLED OPTIONS

Driver Air Bag

Anti-Lock Brakes

Air Conditioning

Alloy Wheels

Cruise Control

CD Player

Passenger Air Bag

Rear Window Defroster

Power Door Locks

Power Mirrors

Power Windows

Power Steering

Side Airbags

Tilt/Telescope Steering Wheel

 

Seller's Description and Comments

2012 Ford Focus se Hatchback., Car has 10780 miles. Very clean non smokers car. Power windows, locks, ac , cd, criuse control, steering wheel controls, 16'' alloy wheels with tires being close to new. Car is in as new condition with nothing to be done to it. Perfect accident free carfax with a clean title.

[Deanh]

Hey Dean:

 

How's this deal from private seller within 25 miles of my home? 2012 Focus Hatch no less:

 

AT Car ID: AT-12A2D416

Price $14,900

Mileage 10,780

Body Style Hatchback

Exterior Color Red

Interior Color Tan

Engine 4 Cylinder Gasoline

Transmission Automatic

Drive Type 2 wheel drive - front

Fuel Type Flexible Fuel

Doors Four Door

 

 

Vehicle Description

INSTALLED OPTIONS

Driver Air Bag

Anti-Lock Brakes

Air Conditioning

Alloy Wheels

Cruise Control

CD Player

Passenger Air Bag

Rear Window Defroster

Power Door Locks

Power Mirrors

Power Windows

Power Steering

Side Airbags

Tilt/Telescope Steering Wheel

 

Seller's Description and Comments

2012 Ford Focus se Hatchback., Car has 10780 miles. Very clean non smokers car. Power windows, locks, ac , cd, criuse control, steering wheel controls, 16'' alloy wheels with tires being close to new. Car is in as new condition with nothing to be done to it. Perfect accident free carfax with a clean title.

Im coming from the dealers perspective, theres NO accounting for what a motivated private seller deems as the right selling price....this guy could be selling it to pay for his health insurance, who knows....I do like the Installed options....who installed the A/c.....lol......

Edited January 26, 2012 by Deanh

[FordBuyer]

Fordbuyer, my apologies for raining on your parade, but understand, everynow and then I encounter exactly waht we are discussing whena so called "educated" buyer walks in my office...." I can get this for 16k at... " ( well, its 169, not 16 ) " I wouldnt but a 2010 for 15 ( well check bill browns web site, seems thats the going rate EVERYWHERE ) " and the coup de gras.... " They buy cars cheaper than you because they are bigger" ( NO THEY DONT ) If I had a dollar for everytime I had heard reasoning along those lines, i would have MORE than two mortgages....

 

You are correct Dean. On first few pages, most of the 2010-11 Focuses are in $15,000-$16,000 range in SEL and SES trim with low miles. I have seen them though in $10,000-$12,000 range with higher miles as in over 50,000 miles. I personally though wouldn't pay over $13,000 for 2010 and I don't think I would have terrible time finding one with 50,000 miles or so and in good condition with clean carfax. You just have to look harder and take longer time finding your treasure.

[FordBuyer]

Im coming from the dealers perspective, theres NO accounting for what a motivated private seller deems as the right selling price....this guy could be selling it to pay for his health insurance, who knows....I do like the Installed options....who installed the A/c.....lol......

 

With the Porsche Boxster anyway, I found that private sellers want more, not less than dealer. I ended up buying mine from dealer cheaper than most private sellers and with minimal warranty included. So I guess it depends and no clear cut trend in whether dealer or private seller want more. I believe it comes down to HOW MOTIVATED SELLER is to get the vehicle out of his/her life.

[Deanh]

You are correct Dean. On first few pages, most of the 2010-11 Focuses are in $15,000-$16,000 range in SEL and SES trim with low miles. I have seen them though in $10,000-$12,000 range with higher miles as in over 50,000 miles. I personally though wouldn't pay over $13,000 for 2010 and I don't think I would have terrible time finding one with 50,000 miles or so and in good condition with clean carfax. You just have to look harder and take longer time finding your treasure.

understand the differences between a private sale and that of a Dealership....rare a Dealer with any sort of Reputation will sell a vehicle as-is...and getting a vehicle Certified is NOT cheap.....

[FordBuyer]

Im coming from the dealers perspective, theres NO accounting for what a motivated private seller deems as the right selling price....this guy could be selling it to pay for his health insurance, who knows....I do like the Installed options....who installed the A/c.....lol......

 

I would say the 2012 Kona Blue and Red 2012 Hatch are priced to move quickly and the $16,000 2010 Focuses are priced to sit. As you say, it comes down to how motivated seller is, be it dealer or private seller. There are suckers out there, and hopefully the sellers of latter can find them.

[FordBuyer]

understand the differences between a private sale and that of a Dealership....rare a Dealer with any sort of Reputation will sell a vehicle as-is...and getting a vehicle Certified is NOT cheap.....

 

True, and I know CPO dealers are giving 100,000 mile extended warranties on drivetrains that are worth extra as in couple thousand more dollars. However, I do know that dealers make very good profit on used cars and while I have no problem with them making their money, I'm not going to be a sucker either and do expect them to sacrifice a little of it if they expect a sale from me. For example, Maple Hills Audi/VW/Hyundai/Volvo/Chrysler out of Kalamazoo wanted $16,7000 for 2001 Boxster with 53,000 miles and excellent condition. I ended up getting it from them for $15,400 with new top and new water pump included plus they paid for PPI at local Porsche dealer. I assume they still made decent profit as sales person was good, honest guy and seemed happy with deal. The deal took some time and negotiating, but it got done and everyone was happy, especiallly me.

[spotdog14]

So can I say that the only thing that concerns me about the new Fusion is the damn goose neck trunk supports? What happened to the shocks?

[Deanh]

the new fusion is about attractive exterior packaging, along with cost cutting where most consumers don't notice, such as with the gooseneck trunk supports, macpherson struts, etc...

yep, thats why manufacturers such as BMW use Mac Struts...they suck, but apparently thats offset by being cheap....y

[silvrsvt]

yep, thats why manufacturers such as BMW use Mac Struts...they suck, but apparently thats offset by being cheap....y

 

Id like to know how many buyers don't buy a car because of gooseneck trunk supports? I bet you that if you asked someone what they had in their trunk they look at you stupid...

[Hugh]

At least Ford doesn't cover their gooseneck supports with plastic for Media-Event cars only. And then try to rip the public off later....Ya you VW...BOOM!