akirby Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Have they really proved this? I mean they have done ok on the Focus without using incentives, but the real test is when these car lines start to age if they can keep selling them at the same rate without using incentives or adjusting pricing and packages. That will be the real test. They've proven it across several lines - Focus, Explorer, Flex, Taurus and soon with Escape. You can still get decent volume with good products at higher ATPs with fewer incentives. Why would anything be different a few years from now? Volume might slow down but Ford will simply adjust production so I don't foresee big incentives playing any role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 From LeftLane News: Ford won’t seek sales title with new Fusion Ford ’s new Fusion promises to be a strong seller thanks to its good looks and advanced powertrains, but the Blue Oval has no intentions of knocking off the Toyota Camry for the sales lead in the mid-size sedan segment. “Between price and volume, we’ll sort out the right mix,” Jim Farley, Ford’s global marketing chief, told Bloomberg. “I don’t think we’re very enamored with being No. 1 just to be No. 1. We’re much more enamored with getting the right price point and the right kind of people to buy the car.” Interesting. Definitely sounds like they're preparing people for a price that is higher than the current model. Personally, I think they'll find it is a mistake to price it too much higher than the competition. It definitely won't make it to my garage at a higher price even if it's the best looking car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Interesting. Definitely sounds like they're preparing people for a price that is higher than the current model. Personally, I think they'll find it is a mistake to price it too much higher than the competition. It definitely won't make it to my garage at a higher price even if it's the best looking car. The base prices probably won't change much but they'll offer versions with more options at a higher price. And you won't get the same incentives. It should still be competitive with similarly priced vehicles but if you're looking for a bargain you'll probably need to look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) The base prices probably won't change much but they'll offer versions with more options at a higher price. And you won't get the same incentives. It should still be competitive with similarly priced vehicles but if you're looking for a bargain you'll probably need to look elsewhere. Biggest thing for my decision will probably be the entry price for the fusion hybrid and how it compares with the price/features of the camry hybrid. Some sites mention there being 2 trim levels for the fusion hybrid (SE and Titanium) so maybe the SE will be around $27-28k...crossing my fingers. If it's over $30k then I'll probably not even bother. Edited January 24, 2012 by iuswingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Biggest thing for my decision will probably be the entry price for the fusion hybrid and how it compares with the price/features of the camry hybrid. Some sites mention there being 2 trim levels for the fusion hybrid (SE and Titanium) so maybe the SE will be around $27-28k...crossing my fingers. If it's over $30k then I'll probably not even bother. Make sure you don't take into account that the Fusion trumps the Camry in fuel economy. That is why people buy hybrids, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Make sure you don't take into account that the Fusion trumps the Camry in fuel economy. That is why people buy hybrids, right? If it's $2k more then how many years will it take for 6 mpg better to make it up for someone that drives around 6,000 miles a year? Even if it's just $1k more, it would take quite a while. Difference between 41 and 22 (in city driving) is enough to get me looking at hybrids.. the difference between 47 and 41 isn't enough on it's own to warrant spending a lot more up front. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Have they really proved this? I mean they have done ok on the Focus without using incentives, but the real test is when these car lines start to age if they can keep selling them at the same rate without using incentives or adjusting pricing and packages. That will be the real test. actually, wierdly enough ford recently upped the incentives on the focus to a 2k rebate......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If it's $2k more then how many years will it take for 6 mpg better to make it up for someone that drives around 6,000 miles a year? Even if it's just $1k more, it would take quite a while. Difference between 41 and 22 (in city driving) is enough to get me looking at hybrids.. the difference between 47 and 41 isn't enough on it's own to warrant spending a lot more up front. JMO. so in that light every purchase comes down to one thing...price....right?.....Im amazed with that logic everyones not driving Tatas.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 actually, wierdly enough ford recently upped the incentives on the focus to a 2k rebate......... Still only seeing 1K around here in Ford Adverts. I think the thing Ford might be doing is reprogramming the lineup...ie adjusting the model line up and the rebate is to move stuff that isn't moving and replace it with cheaper or whatever models that will move without as much incentives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If it's $2k more then how many years will it take for 6 mpg better to make it up for someone that drives around 6,000 miles a year? Even if it's just $1k more, it would take quite a while. Difference between 41 and 22 (in city driving) is enough to get me looking at hybrids.. the difference between 47 and 41 isn't enough on it's own to warrant spending a lot more up front. JMO. At 6k miles per year, I doubt you will ever break even with a hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Still only seeing 1K around here in Ford Adverts. I think the thing Ford might be doing is reprogramming the lineup...ie adjusting the model line up and the rebate is to move stuff that isn't moving and replace it with cheaper or whatever models that will move without as much incentives you could be correct.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 so in that light every purchase comes down to one thing...price....right?.....Im amazed with that logic everyones not driving Tatas.... It comes down to being affordable in the short term and long term. So yes, if I can't afford it, I'm not buying it. Do you have a tendency to buy things you can't afford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 At 6k miles per year, I doubt you will ever break even with a hybrid. At 3.50 a gallon, it would only take about 6 years assuming a hybrid has a $2k premium, which is close to what the premium is for a comparable non-hybrid. 6 years is hardly never for breaking even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It comes down to being affordable in the short term and long term. So yes, if I can't afford it, I'm not buying it. Do you have a tendency to buy things you can't afford? then dont, let me introduce you to the Nissan Versa....point is, people do NOT soley purchase vehicles based on price...and just because you cant garner the logic to spend an additional 2k on a vehicle doesnt mean everyone else feels the same way....not everyones budget reflects yours.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It comes down to being affordable in the short term and long term. So yes, if I can't afford it, I'm not buying it. Do you have a tendency to buy things you can't afford? The thing your missing is that if you want something, aren't you more inclined to spend money on it? Or are you one of those people who see a car as an appliance and buy whatever they think is the best bang for their buck? If you really are a Camry owner....I'd be inclined to think its the latter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 At 3.50 a gallon, it would only take about 6 years assuming a hybrid has a $2k premium, which is close to what the premium is for a comparable non-hybrid. 6 years is hardly never for breaking even. would take a LOT less time than that where I live, a 30 mile drive in bumper to bumper can take an hour.........and stop and go are where Hybrids excel....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The thing your missing is that if you want something, aren't you more inclined to spend money on it? Or are you one of those people who see a car as an appliance and buy whatever they think is the best bang for their buck? If you really are a Camry owner....I'd be inclined to think its the latter... I see a guy watching a 19 inch Tv screen because he couldnt justify spending an additional $200 for the 50 inch...guess we all have our priorities...should i have bought an S Fiesta rather than the SES with GULP....LEATHER?????? cant say ive lost one wink of sleep over that 4K decision..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The thing your missing is that if you want something, aren't you more inclined to spend money on it? Or are you one of those people who see a car as an appliance and buy whatever they think is the best bang for their buck? If you really are a Camry owner....I'd be inclined to think its the latter... Combination of both. I buy what I want at a price that won't break the bank. So far, my camry has been a great choice. A lot of nice features, looks good and dependable. guess I'm just not biased based on brands like some. The old camry looked 10x better in inside and out than the old fusion and drives better as well (test drove both). The new fusion looks better than the new camry but at what price? I'll just have to see if it ends up as a viable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I see a guy watching a 19 inch Tv screen because he couldnt justify spending an additional $200 for the 50 inch...guess we all have our priorities...should i have bought an S Fiesta rather than the SES with GULP....LEATHER?????? cant say ive lost one wink of sleep over that 4K decision..... Actually I have a 40in tv but that's besides the point. Why don't you go buy a Lamborghini? Oh wait, EVERYONE has a price that they aren't willing to spend on a car. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 At 3.50 a gallon, it would only take about 6 years assuming a hybrid has a $2k premium, which is close to what the premium is for a comparable non-hybrid. 6 years is hardly never for breaking even. The only problem is that Hybrids are normally better equipped then the base model (that normally gets the best gas mileage) For example Fusion Hybrid gets 39 Combined Fusion S gets 25 MPG Combined At 3.50 bucks a gallon and 6K miles a year, the difference in fuel cost is $302 a year, over 10 years its only a saving of $3015. But pricing is like this: A Fusion Hybrid is $3455 more then an SEL Fusion...you can get a el chepo Fusion for even less....and it would take you over 10 years to make up the difference in price for the Hybrid with fuel savings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) actually, wierdly enough ford recently upped the incentives on the focus to a 2k rebate......... Around here, this the beginning of the sales and I don't know the incentives but you can get 0% for 48-60 months and 1.99% for 72. Good deal for Focus. I think it's only this month. When I picked up my Fiesta it was around 6% so I think it was to generate profit. Besides, the banks were offering 8-9%, no thank you. I can pay it off early with no penalty. I think Focus was the same. I think Fusion will have around 6-7% to start and will lower for a sale as required. The same as the competition, JMO. Edited January 24, 2012 by Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Why don't you go buy a Lamborghini? Oh wait, EVERYONE has a price that they aren't willing to spend on a car. Go figure. So a difference of spending 3K more on a car that is markedly better then the competition is a dealbreaker for you? You know thats only about $50 difference a month in a car payment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Around here, this the beginning of the sales and I don't know the incentives but you can get 0% for 48-60 months and 1.99% for 72. Good deal for Focus. I think it's only this month. When I picked up my Fiesta it was around 6% so I think it was to generate profit. Besides, the banks were offering 8-9%, no thank you. I can pay it off early with no penalty. I think Focus was the same. I think Fusion will have around 6-7% to start and will lower for a sale as required. The same as the competition, JMO. US rates are around 5% or less for a 60 month loan...depending if FMC is running a deal or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 At 3.50 a gallon, it would only take about 6 years assuming a hybrid has a $2k premium, which is close to what the premium is for a comparable non-hybrid. 6 years is hardly never for breaking even. Actually the difference is more like $5K between a non hybrid SEL I4 and a hybrid Fusion. If you want a Fusion and you want a hybrid then get one. But don't try to claim it's the cheapest option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 US rates are around 5% or less for a 60 month loan...depending if FMC is running a deal or not... 2.69% for me. And only $295 for gap insurance. Gotta love credit unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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