Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1110_2012_toyota_camry_first_test/ 2012 CAMRY SE V6 MT FIGURE EIGHT 27.2 sec @ 0.66 g (avg) http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1010_2011_hyundai_sonata_2_0t_test/viewall.html FUSION SPORT MT FIGURE EIGHT 27.9 sec @ 0.61 g (avg) yay, its cherry pick time..When it comes to midsize family sedans, performance can sometimes be an afterthought. Because these cars are engineered to haul people, driving excitement often comes after comfort. However, the Ford Fusion surprises reviewers by actually being fun to drive. By comparison, reviewers report that the Camry provides a comfortable and refined ride, but is shorter on the fun factor. Advantage: Fusion . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omelet1978 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Just curious, why would ford really come out with a new Sport version if the 2.0L matches the performance of the current Sport? Is there really a market for a 3.7 V6 AWD Fusion for example? I think if I was getting a car for the track I would be more interested in the Focus sport version coming out since its a lot lighter. Also, for example the sport version of the Edge is a couple thousand more than the regular version, so I'm guessing a fully loaded Sport Fusion would cost around $35,000. Thats probably pricing it out of the market and getting into Taurus, Maxima territory... Maybe they will come out with a sport version in a year or two. My guess would be that after spending all that money on the hybrid, the electric version, the two ecoboost engines, and the new design Ford might focus on other products for the next couple of years. Maybe when its re-freshed in 2016 they might resurect the Sport version? Edited January 12, 2012 by omelet1978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just curious, why would ford really come out with a new Sport version if the 2.0L matches the performance of the current Sport? Is there really a market for a 3.7 V6 AWD Fusion for example? I think if I was getting a car for the track I would be more interested in the Focus sport version coming out since its a lot lighter. Maybe they will come out with a sport version in a year or two. My guess would be that after spending all that money on the hybrid, the electric version, the two ecoboost engines, and the new design Ford might focus on other products for the next couple of years. Maybe when its re-freshed in 2016 they might resurect the Sport version? theres also a 2.7 "nano" engine in the works, eco and all....guess which vehicle would partner PERFECTLY with that engine?.....and dont say Fiesta....WOOOOHOOO ! course all this is guesswork as the CAFE handcuffs are constantly tightening.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 not sure why you guys keep defending ford instead of pushing them to deliver a more compelling product. I would like to see the Fusion to be a class leading product, but its not when it offers 237hp compared to the 26x-27x of its competitors. You are too hung up on hp partner. The EB 2.0 produces 270 foot pounds of torque which is more than many V6's and I would guess the EB 4 cylinder is lighter and gets better fuel mileage than Camry V6. Why the hell would you want to go faster than 6.5 seconds to 60mph in a family car? The 2013 Fusion with EB gets outstanding fuel mileage, its powerful with good torque and power to weight ratio, and tuned to be good handler and give good ride. On top of that, it's the star of the 2012 NAIAS. If that disappoints you, buy the tepid, redesigned 2012 Camry V6 that still looks like a 2002 model while the Fusion is a much more modern, fresh design that pushes the design envelope as much as the 1986 Taurus did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1110_2012_toyota_camry_first_test/ 2012 CAMRY SE V6 MT FIGURE EIGHT 27.2 sec @ 0.66 g (avg) http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1010_2011_hyundai_sonata_2_0t_test/viewall.html FUSION SPORT MT FIGURE EIGHT 27.9 sec @ 0.61 g (avg) Other than you, who gives a shit? These are family cars. I own a 2002 Taurus SES Sport with 24 valver, and the only reason I got it is because it has better power from 40-60mph for getting onto freeway and from 60-80mph for passing on highway with same fuel mileage basically as 3.0 Vulcan pushrod V6. With 270 pounds of torque, and close to 240hp, the EB 2.0 will do fine getting on freeway and passing. If you want to go faster and buy a Ford, buy a Mustang or a new Focus ST. I imagine the order bank will open in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 the new version regressed from sla double wishbone to macpherson struts. sure, the rear suspension improved dramatically but the front suspension did regress. it will be difficult to tune the ride and handling balance with the new chassis. the volvo s60 dynamic chassis (non-4C) does have very high limits, but the ride is stiffer than a m3, especially in the front of the car. i am interested in seeing what ford does with their suspension tuning. ford's own PR positions their 2.0EB as the performance variant. I'm not sure what you are getting at there. the M3 and every BMW made uses Struts up front. there is no regression suspension wise for the new fusion. none at all. the new car will run circles around the old car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 ford's own PR positions their 2.0EB as the performance variant. I'm not sure what you are getting at there. You might want to read this....Ford's PR for the Fusion The 1.6-liter EcoBoost is expected to deliver best-in-class four-cylinder non-hybrid fuel efficiency of 26 mpg in the city and 37 mpg on the highway. The 2.0-liter EcoBoost engine – paired with a paddle-shifted six-speed SelectShift Automatic™ transmission, available 19-inch wheels and tires and all-wheel drive with the ability to send additional torque to the rear – is the Fusion performance option. Sounds to me that they are stating that 2L EB is a performance OPTION not a Performance Variant. Given that the focus is on MPGs not outright performance....this makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 if you want fast 0-60mph, the 2.0EB delivers. i expect around 6.5. what the 2.0EB doesn't deliver is 100-120 mph passing power, which I find much more important. No one floors their car at stoplights, but everyone needs passing power. all the 3.5 V6 competitors do better than the 2.0EB here. I track my Porsche, and the fastest I've ever gotten on a road racing circuit is about 105mph on short straight before it's back to brakes, with the only exception being MIS where I got up to about 140mph on high banked oval. So I have no idea where you are looking for passing power at 100mph on public roads. And I don't think many people will be buying a mid sized family car in order to track it where even there that kind of power is not needed as straights are just too short. And if I lived in Germany, I sure as hell wouldn't be looking for any Toyota. They aren't built to run at 150mph all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 not sure why you guys keep defending ford instead of pushing them to deliver a more compelling product. I would like to see the Fusion to be a class leading product, but its not when it offers 237hp compared to the 26x-27x of its competitors. So your only metric to be a "class leading" product is HP rating of the engine? What if Fusion ends up beating it's higher-hp competitors? What about the fact that it offers AWD? How about the ST/SVT/SHO which appears to be on its way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 http://www.motortren...mry_first_test/ 2012 CAMRY SE V6 MT FIGURE EIGHT 27.2 sec @ 0.66 g (avg) http://www.motortren...st/viewall.html FUSION SPORT MT FIGURE EIGHT 27.9 sec @ 0.61 g (avg) Well, the 2013 Fusion is a completely different car. You do understand that simple statement? Also, the topic title is the 2013 Fusion. You contend that the V-6 Toyota will prevail over the 2.0. Yet you have no proof. Just a comparison using the unspecified year V-6 Fusion, which, if you can recollect, is unrelated. Now, we have a Toyota up against an AWD 2.0 Fusion with Ford's latest suspension technology? Put identical tires on 'em and compare, on, say, Laguna Seca or even the Nordschliffe or even Mosport or Road Atlanta. You're entitled to your opinion; mine is that you will be unhappy with your Toyota. But at least the Fusion will be able to show you the proper AWD racing-line until it disappears out of the corner ahead of you. Then you're on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Well, the 2013 Fusion is a completely different car. You do understand that simple statement? Also, the topic title is the 2013 Fusion. You contend that the V-6 Toyota will prevail over the 2.0. Yet you have no proof. Just a comparison using the unspecified year V-6 Fusion, which, if you can recollect, is unrelated. Now, we have a Toyota up against an AWD 2.0 Fusion with Ford's latest suspension technology? Put identical tires on 'em and compare, on, say, Laguna Seca or even the Nordschliffe or even Mosport or Road Atlanta. You're entitled to your opinion; mine is that you will be unhappy with your Toyota. But at least the Fusion will be able to show you the proper AWD racing-line until it disappears out of the corner ahead of you. Then you're on your own. Looks to me as 2013 Fusion wins award after award (Autoweek Best in Show today), quite a few out there are feeling threatened out there. The 2012 Fusion has already passed the Accord in annual sales, and the award winning 2013 Fusion looks like it's ready to hunt down the nondescript Camry in sales. Conventional, Hybrid, and Energi and drop dead gorgeous design that separates it from every competitior out there. Yeah, they have a right to feel threatened by this groundbreaking vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My only complant about the new Fusion, is that the Energi looks too much like the regular Fusion...I think it would look better with Focus Energi grill on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 the M3 and every BMW made uses Struts up front. there is no regression suspension wise for the new fusion. none at all. the new car will run circles around the old car. yeah?...but what about a V6 Camry...Ive heard about them on the Ring...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I track my Porsche, and the fastest I've ever gotten on a road racing circuit is about 105mph on short straight before it's back to brakes, with the only exception being MIS where I got up to about 140mph on high banked oval. So I have no idea where you are looking for passing power at 100mph on public roads. And I don't think many people will be buying a mid sized family car in order to track it where even there that kind of power is not needed as straights are just too short. And if I lived in Germany, I sure as hell wouldn't be looking for any Toyota. They aren't built to run at 150mph all day. Ive got all the passing power i need with a mere 143hp.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My only complant about the new Fusion, is that the Energi looks too much like the regular Fusion...I think it would look better with Focus Energi grill on it. what's a "Focus Energi"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omelet1978 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 theres also a 2.7 "nano" engine in the works, eco and all....guess which vehicle would partner PERFECTLY with that engine?.....and dont say Fiesta....WOOOOHOOO ! course all this is guesswork as the CAFE handcuffs are constantly tightening.... It will still be a lot of development costs to put that engine in the Fusion...probably not worth it considering the Sport model counts for like 5%-10% of Fusion sales. My guess would be the Sport comes back for the mid cycle re-fresh. If the 2.0L matches or beats my current sport and gets like 28mpg overall for example its a pretty compelling package of power, handling and fuel economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 what's a "Focus Energi"? 80s song by a Band called Information Society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It will still be a lot of development costs to put that engine in the Fusion...probably not worth it considering the Sport model counts for like 5%-10% of Fusion sales. My guess would be the Sport comes back for the mid cycle re-fresh. If the 2.0L matches or beats my current sport and gets like 28mpg overall for example its a pretty compelling package of power, handling and fuel economy. not necessarily....it may be a pretty small engine as its a V6 so whos to say its not an elementary bolt in...but all guessing aside, I would lay money on a Fusuion performance version, and dare I say it....labelled ST............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 80s song by a Band called Information Society. No no, that was What's On Your Mind (Pure Energy). And the sample was spoken by this dude: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 not necessarily....it may be a pretty small engine as its a V6 so whos to say its not an elementary bolt in...but all guessing aside, I would lay money on a Fusuion performance version, and dare I say it....labelled ST............ Not to mention that the engineering would probably already be done if they are planning to using it in the MKZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 No no, that was What's On Your Mind (Pure Energy). And the sample was spoken by this dude: should have known you would know where i was going....lol.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Not to mention that the engineering would probably already be done if they are planning to using it in the MKZ. something about this engines dis-placement, being a V6 and ecoboost , makes me all warm and fuzzy inside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 in southwestern states like arizona and california, passing power at 100mph is sometimes useful on long straight roads. also in germany as well. if all you guys like to do is putter around at 65mph why not all get diesels? if 0-60, midrange and acceleration are whats important to YOU, why not get a motorcycle....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 i need 4 seats for my family. 0-60, midrange are not important at all, top end is whats important. almost all cars have enough passing power at low/medium speeds. its the high speed passing power that is most coveted. if you have a family of four and are passing cars at 100-125 you sir are an irresponsible moron.......when the kids reached 3 was it Disneyland or bungee jumping?... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 should have known you would know where i was going....lol.... They are a guilty pleasure of mine. :bag: :hide: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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