mettech Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 "It will take every ounce of our energy to execute Lincoln in North America," says Jim Farley, Ford's global sales chief. That's a pretty tall order. It's not just about the vehicles. CEO Alan Mulally has said he expects them to be on par with the best from Mercedes-Benz; Lexus and BMW, yet Ford still intends to share chassis with its mainstream Ford Division. Rather, according to Farley, the tougher part may be coaxing dealers to go all-out for customers. "The secret sauce to Lexus was the personal touch," says Farley, a Toyota/Lexus veteran. It's about tiny things that make a huge impact on customers, like putting a rose on the seat after bringing cars back for a recall repair or making sure every car is washed after servicing. Because customers aren't particularly keen on Lincoln, unless maybe they are retired and living in Florida. "I don't think we're relevant to the core luxury customer," Farley acknowledges. "You have to wake up to the market."... "...Farley says he isn't going to court the obvious luxury targets, Type-A males who are successful in business. Rather, he going go after a demographic he calls "the magician" -- trend-setting creatives who live on the coasts. They are more open to change and will buy the best, or at least most interesting, car regardless of what others think...." USA Today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ugh. Yet another mention of shared chassis's like it's a death knoll. Hello? Lexus has done it for 20+ years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 "It will take every ounce of our energy to execute Lincoln in North America," says Jim Farley, Ford's global sales chief. Oh noes! They're executing Lincoln??? I thought they were fixing it! :shades: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 "It will take every ounce of our energy to execute Lincoln in North America," says Jim Farley, Ford's global sales chief. Oh noes! They're executing Lincoln??? I thought they were fixing it! :shades: I was thinking the same thing P......ya beat me to it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buyacargetachec Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Some perspective here: Toyota spent nearly $2B (in today's dollars) back in the late 1980s on the LS400 and a lightly tarted up Camry, the ES250. Spending $1B on seven tarted up Fords is not going to put Lincoln in the same league with Lexus and BMW, the names Ford execs keep dropping. No doubt, there's a little money to be made by selling tarted up Fords. GM does well with Buick this way. However, Mulally and Fields should really drop the pretense if they're serious. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Some perspective here: Toyota spent nearly $2B (in today's dollars) back in the late 1980s on the LS400 and a lightly tarted up Camry, the ES250. Spending $1B on seven tarted up Fords is not going to put Lincoln in the same league with Lexus and BMW, the names Ford execs keep dropping. No doubt, there's a little money to be made by selling tarted up Fords. GM does well with Buick this way. However, Mulally and Fields should really drop the pretense if they're serious. What makes it a 'tarted up Ford"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 What makes it a 'tarted up Ford"? yeah we need to get that changed to "a Ford that went to Finishing School" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buyacargetachec Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Ford fwd platform shared with Fusion, same hardpoints, shared powertrains (even though they say they'll be "exclusive"), same colors, etc. Nothing wrong with this as long as there are buyers who see value. But this car will never be viewed as a BMW alternative nor should "BMW" ever fall from the lips of Ford execs when talking about this car. It's simply not believable. And as long as Ford continues with its effort to combine Ford and Lincoln dealers, they'll have a tough time matching the Lexus dealer experience with any consistency. Seven models for only $1B will yield a Buick competitor at best. If pricing and PR align with that message then Lincoln might have a chance. What makes it a 'tarted up Ford"? Edited January 22, 2012 by buyacargetachec 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Ford fwd platform shared with Fusion, same hardpoints, shared powertrains (even though they say they'll be "exclusive"), same colors, etc. Nothing wrong with this as long as there are buyers who see value. But this car will never be viewed as a BMW alternative nor should "BMW" ever fall from the lips of Ford execs when talking about this car. It's simply not believable. And as long as Ford continues with its effort to combine Ford and Lincoln dealers, they'll have a tough time matching the Lexus dealer experience with any consistency. Seven models for only $1B will yield a Buick competitor at best. If pricing and PR align with that message then Lincoln might have a chance. MKZ gets the 3.7L V6. Fusion doesn't. It should also get a 2.7L Ecoboost. Fusion doesn't. Colors haven't been announced for the MKZ yet so you don't know if they share colors. And Ford has not said they're building a BMW fighter - that's GM. The current Fords compete with Buick already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buyacargetachec Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) "The current Fords compete with Buick already." If true, don't you see that this is a problem for Lincoln? Because, today, Lincoln is no better than Buick. But a lot more expensive. Kuzak was touting a few months back that Lincoln's future rests in being as "refined" as Lexus and as "engaging" as a BMW. So, Ford sees Lincoln as a competitor. That's a mistake based on all the reasons I've given. BTW, this quote reminds me of what they were saying about Mercury a few years before they canned it: "...Lincoln is aiming for a buyer who is younger, more female, more educated, with a higher income and living on a coast, said Derrick Kuzak, head of global product development. Lincoln will have seven new or significantly modified vehicles by 2014." http://www.freep.com/article/20120115/BUSINESS01/201150431/Lincoln-faces-different-market?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cp 2005: "As The Detroit News reported last month, Fields took a hard look at killing the Mercury brand. However, that study concluded that Mercury brings in more money than would be saved by eliminating it. Instead, the company will try to reenergize Mercury by giving the brand new product designed to appeal to women and more youthful buyers." http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20051207/AUTO01/512070322/Ford-s-fix-it-plan and this from 2004: "Mercury Brand Plans Six New Vehicles" http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ojdOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tf0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=1884,6182356&dq=ford+mercury+six+new+products&hl=en Sounds like Lincoln's "seven new vehicles by 2014." The more things "change" the more they stay the same... MKZ gets the 3.7L V6. Fusion doesn't. It should also get a 2.7L Ecoboost. Fusion doesn't. Colors haven't been announced for the MKZ yet so you don't know if they share colors. And Ford has not said they're building a BMW fighter - that's GM. The current Fords compete with Buick already. Edited January 22, 2012 by buyacargetachec 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It would be a mistake if Ford said they were building a "5 series killer" or implied that they were going to build a luxury vehicle that would outperform a BMW. But they're not. As for the 2005 comment, ask yourself this - where was Mulally when that comment was made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 It would be a mistake if Ford said they were building a "5 series killer" or implied that they were going to build a luxury vehicle that would outperform a BMW. But they're not. As for the 2005 comment, ask yourself this - where was Mulally when that comment was made? Maybe Lincoln should say " We're building something really nice and fancy... Not sure what it is or who it is for... but it is really nice fancy car." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Some perspective here: Toyota spent nearly $2B (in today's dollars) back in the late 1980s on the LS400 and a lightly tarted up Camry, the ES250. Some reality for you.......There was no such brand as Lexus prior to 1989 . One would think it would take a few more dollars to start from scratch as in the case of the Lexus brand , as Lexus was for International markets only, so dealership network, marketing/.advertising and all things associated with launching a unknown brand in foreign markets are part of the (actual over US $1B invested). Your comparison to an already established brands expenditures is irrelevant. Your complaint is old and tired as far as I am concerned. Your complaint can be used against Honda, Nissan, VW, etc. If you do not like what Ford is doing with Lincoln that is your problem. Go enjoy your Lexus or whatever tickles your fancy, but give it a rest with the tarted up Ford blah blah blah crap. IMO you just look foolish complaining about 2 cars that look absolutely nothing alike and will attract very different customers when compared to the Fusion. If you think Buick is equal to Lincoln, then you probably think Acura is better then its Honda twins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buyacargetachec Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 At Boeing driving a Lexus LS. Sorry, a wiseacre answer I know. Couldn't resist. To your point, Mullaly was around when we were told that Mercury had a bright future. Until it didn't. It would be a mistake if Ford said they were building a "5 series killer" or implied that they were going to build a luxury vehicle that would outperform a BMW. But they're not. As for the 2005 comment, ask yourself this - where was Mulally when that comment was made? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buyacargetachec Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Acura uses a very similar strategy thus their weak place in the market. You've helped prove my point. Regarding Lexus, Toyota was already well established in 1989 in the US. All of the distribution, back office functions and marketing for Lexus were already in place in Torrance, CA at Toyota headquarters. As I recall, they even shared advertising agencies. Each Lexus dealer was already a Toyota dealer. And there were relatively few of them. Most of the money invested in Lexus was used to develop the very credible LS400. Just one vehicle. In contrast, Ford is now talking about less money being used for SEVEN vehicles 20 years later. Meanwhile BMW, which doesn't use mainstream models to base its cars on, is far stronger a competitor in 2012. Just ask Lexus. Sorry, Lincoln cannot compete on a world-class basis with that low level of investment. It can be a great Buick alternative. Some reality for you.......There was no such brand as Lexus prior to 1989 . One would think it would take a few more dollars to start from scratch as in the case of the Lexus brand , as Lexus was for International markets only, so dealership network, marketing/.advertising and all things associated with launching a unknown brand in foreign markets are part of the (actual over US $1B invested). Your comparison to an already established brands expenditures is irrelevant. Your complaint is old and tired as far as I am concerned. Your complaint can be used against Honda, Nissan, VW, etc. If you do not like what Ford is doing with Lincoln that is your problem. Go enjoy your Lexus or whatever tickles your fancy, but give it a rest with the tarted up Ford blah blah blah crap. IMO you just look foolish complaining about 2 cars that look absolutely nothing alike and will attract very different customers when compared to the Fusion. If you think Buick is equal to Lincoln, then you probably think Acura is better then its Honda twins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Acura uses a very similar strategy thus their weak place in the market. You've helped prove my point. Acura's strategy was going great until it branched out to include disastrous styling experiments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If you think Buick is equal to Lincoln... I don't. Currently, Buick is notably better, both in product lineup and brand equity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't. Currently, Buick is notably better, both in product lineup and brand equity. IMO, had GM done the hard yards, Chevrolet could have been as good as Buick is today but sadly, GM management lacks the true will power and insight needed to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't. Currently, Buick is notably better, both in product lineup and brand equity. Please elaborate. How is the current Regal better than the current MKZ, much less the new one? What does Buick have to compete with an ecoboost MKS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Fake wood and plastichrome?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrobird Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I had a 2003 LS Premium Sport--at the time sharing components with the Thunderbird (of which I still have). Ford was on to something with the LS platform that could and did rival BMW...that car had options that are only now becoming industry wide (e.g. heated/cooled seats w/3 speeds/HID headlamps/rain sensing wipers/touchscreen nav/THX premium sound etc) and performance, that car was like riding on rails pinned to your seat--awesome. I suppose what I'm saying is, to borrow a catch phrase from Steve Jobs "Think Different"--you can share components but deliver a totally unique experience--somehow the Mark VIII comes to mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Please elaborate. How is the current Regal better than the current MKZ, much less the new one? What does Buick have to compete with an ecoboost MKS? Buick's products don't line up perfectly with Lincoln's, but it's probably the LaCrosse as much as the Regal that's competing against the MKZ. Buick markets it heavily against the Lexus ES, which is probably the closest thing to the MKZ -- a comfort/luxury-focused front-drive midsizer. The Regal is in more of the Acura TSX niche for its four-cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Buick's products don't line up perfectly with Lincoln's, but it's probably the LaCrosse as much as the Regal that's competing against the MKZ. Buick markets it heavily against the Lexus ES, which is probably the closest thing to the MKZ -- a comfort/luxury-focused front-drive midsizer. The Regal is in more of the Acura TSX niche for its four-cylinder. You mean the Lacrosse with the standard 4 cylinder 180 hp engine and optional 300 hp V6 versus the MKS standard 300 hp V6 and optional 350 hp V6? Bzzttt.......try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 To be honest I think it is going to cost a lot more then $1 billion to get Lincoln to where it needs to be. I don't think they are going to do it on $1 billion when all is said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 To be honest I think it is going to cost a lot more then $1 billion to get Lincoln to where it needs to be. I don't think they are going to do it on $1 billion when all is said and done. Where did Ford say that they were only ever going to spend $1B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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