akirby Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 You couldn't prove it by the 5R55S in my LS. Despite the best efforts of our mutual friend in its calibration, it's still a sow's ear. And it was created in 1997. I had on on my 97 Explorer SOHC 4.0 way before it showed up in the LS. I'm talking about the current crop of 6 speed autos, specifically in the F150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) The take rate on just the FX4 and Raptor would justify a manual, plus Ford could lower their advertised MSRP's by making that slushbox "everyone wants" a several thousand dollar option. And you know that how? Exactly how much does it cost to add a manual transmission to a vehicle? Do you know? Of course you don't. But Ford knows, down to the penny. And we're not talking about assembly or the parts - we're talking about a new PCM calibration (maybe more than one) plus crash testing, EPA fuel economy testing, etc. etc. It adds up. Ford also knows more about the market potential than we do because they do it for a living. Doesn't mean they always get it right but they definitely have way more data than you or I. And Ford (you know, the one with all the data) says it's not worth the effort. And apparently so have all of the other mfrs. If that doesn't convince you then you're just sticking your fingers in your ears because you don't want to hear the truth. And don't get me wrong - I love manuals. I plan to get a manual sports car of some kind as a weekend driver at some point and it will most definitely be a manual if possible. I also want a F150 but it will be an automatic. And I've owned 2 Rangers back in the 90s and both were manuals so I know the difference. Edited May 18, 2012 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 You forgot Toyota and Nissan. And do you know what has changed in the last 10 years? Automatics have gotten way better, especially in trucks. And they're so much more efficient now. So whatever the reasons were 10 years ago - they're even stronger now. Just admit that what you want isn't what most buyers want and move on. in certain vehicles yes, but then theres a reason one can now get a manual in a focus Titanium....in trucks a manual, although fun, waters down one of the vehicles prime directives....towing, an auto multiples torque, a manual does not........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Ford also knows more about the market potential than we do because they do it for a living. Doesn't mean they always get it right but they definitely have way more data than you or I. And Ford (you know, the one with all the data) says it's not worth the effort. And apparently so have all of the other mfrs. If that doesn't convince you then you're just sticking your fingers in your ears because you don't want to hear the truth. I agree with you right now. But also remember data, no matter how good, is fluid. It changes. It's not static. Also remember there is a another world, outside of the USA, that embraces/prefers manual transmissions. Go to a Ford of Europe web site and see what is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I agree with you right now. But also remember data, no matter how good, is fluid. It changes. It's not static. Also remember there is a another world, outside of the USA, that embraces/prefers manual transmissions. Go to a Ford of Europe web site and see what is available. And if the market changes I trust Ford will respond accordingly. The F150 isn't sold in Europe, nor will it be. We're talking about F150s here, not small cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 And if the market changes I trust Ford will respond accordingly. The F150 isn't sold in Europe, nor will it be. We're talking about F150s here, not small cars. Lets have a lightning rebirth, shortbed std cab, eco engine TWEEKED....6 speed manual........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 And you know that how? Exactly how much does it cost to add a manual transmission to a vehicle? Do you know? Of course you don't. But Ford knows, down to the penny. And we're not talking about assembly or the parts - we're talking about a new PCM calibration (maybe more than one) plus crash testing, EPA fuel economy testing, etc. etc. It adds up. Ford also knows more about the market potential than we do because they do it for a living. Doesn't mean they always get it right but they definitely have way more data than you or I. And Ford (you know, the one with all the data) says it's not worth the effort. And apparently so have all of the other mfrs. If that doesn't convince you then you're just sticking your fingers in your ears because you don't want to hear the truth. And don't get me wrong - I love manuals. I plan to get a manual sports car of some kind as a weekend driver at some point and it will most definitely be a manual if possible. I also want a F150 but it will be an automatic. And I've owned 2 Rangers back in the 90s and both were manuals so I know the difference. Yeah, because Ford is perfect and has never, ever, misread the market. Ford Flex... missed sales projections by 70k/year. Thunderbird "Boulevard Cruiser"... why? Lincoln Blackwood, anyone? I guess customers are just too stupid to realize they should be buying these products! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yeah, because Ford is perfect and has never, ever, misread the market. Ford Flex... missed sales projections by 70k/year. Thunderbird "Boulevard Cruiser"... why? Lincoln Blackwood, anyone? I guess customers are just too stupid to realize they should be buying these products! They're right a lot more than they're wrong, or they wouldn't still be in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 They're right a lot more than they're wrong, or they wouldn't still be in business. GM and Chrysler are still in business and they've made more bone-headed business decisions than Ford has recently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 GM and Chrysler are still in business and they've made more bone-headed business decisions than Ford has recently... But they also got bailed out by the government and one of them was sold to foreign company...so whats your point again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yeah, because Ford is perfect and has never, ever, misread the market. Ford Flex... missed sales projections by 70k/year. Thunderbird "Boulevard Cruiser"... why? Lincoln Blackwood, anyone? I guess customers are just too stupid to realize they should be buying these products! Don't forget the whole PAG fiasco, and the demise of Lincoln and Mercury for that matter because of so much focus and money spent and lost on PAG. The verdict is still out on whether Lincoln can be resuscitated back to a viable life span. Sometimes I think it may have been better to let Lincoln die also and just keep Jaguar and Land Rover as your luxury brands, and Volvo as your upmarket Ford instead of selling all three for pennies on the dollar and investing billions trying to bring Lincoln back to life. PAG had a global presence also, something Lincoln can only dream of. I'm still not sold on the COMPLETE turnaround story of Ford until the share price starts reflecting it. Both GM and Ford get incomplete work in progress grades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 GM and Chrysler are still in business and they've made more bone-headed business decisions than Ford has recently... With Daimler (Germans and Americans didn't get along) and Cerberus fiasco, you are right about Chrylser. But so far anyway the Fiat/Chrysler combination seems to be a marriage made in heaven. Fiat is letting talented Chrysler designers and engineers do their thing and the results are all positive. I'm excitied about Alfa Romeo coming back to states and hope they do well. Can't have too many sports cars and just sporty rides. Choice is good, and competition makes everyone better if they want to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 GM and Chrysler are still in business and they've made more bone-headed business decisions than Ford has recently... Despite GM and Chrysler's failings, they've still made plenty of smart decisions over the course of their existence as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 But they also got bailed out by the government and one of them was sold to foreign company...so whats your point again? My point is for less than the cost of another failed TV/magazine ad campaign for Flex, Ford could stick a manual in the F-150 and make more profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 My point is for less than the cost of another failed TV/magazine ad campaign for Flex, Ford could stick a manual in the F-150 and make more profit. Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Despite GM and Chrysler's failings, they've still made plenty of smart decisions over the course of their existence as well. Well, when you think of the scores of automotive companies that have failed in past 100 years or so, Ford, GM, and Chrylser are the last one's standing if you don't count Tesla and maybe a couple other start up American auto companies. Tesla is certainly finding out how hard it is to get into auto business and drum up the capital to build and distribute your autos long term. Like Ford, Chrysler and GM have very rich, nostalgic histories and storied, iconic pasts. I still remember Packard failing, and even though I was only 8 years old, I loved Packards. I still go by the old Packard plant that Banksy made famous, and shed a tear. So I would hate to see Chrysler or GM fail let alone my first love Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 My point is for less than the cost of another failed TV/magazine ad campaign for Flex, Ford could stick a manual in the F-150 and make more profit. So let's say that Ford is totally wrong about this and you're right. WHY HASN'T ANY OTHER MFR DONE IT? I guess ALL mfrs are stupid and you're smarter than every product planner at every mfr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 With Daimler (Germans and Americans didn't get along) and Cerberus fiasco, you are right about Chrylser. But so far anyway the Fiat/Chrysler combination seems to be a marriage made in heaven. Fiat is letting talented Chrysler designers and engineers do their thing and the results are all positive. I'm excitied about Alfa Romeo coming back to states and hope they do well. Can't have too many sports cars and just sporty rides. Choice is good, and competition makes everyone better if they want to survive. Diamler treated Chrysler like a redheaded stepchild. FIAT sees Chrysler as their entry point back into the American auto market. It seems to be going well, except for the idiotic decision to open FIAT dealerships. Would have been smarter to sell them through the existing Chrysler dealer network ala the Dodge Colt model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 So let's say that Ford is totally wrong about this and you're right. WHY HASN'T ANY OTHER MFR DONE IT? I guess ALL mfrs are stupid and you're smarter than every product planner at every mfr. Ford was stupid to offer the Titanium trim Focus... nobody thought to offer a high content econobox before, so it must have been a bad idea with poor sales, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Diamler treated Chrysler like a redheaded stepchild. FIAT sees Chrysler as their entry point back into the American auto market. It seems to be going well, except for the idiotic decision to open FIAT dealerships. Would have been smarter to sell them through the existing Chrysler dealer network ala the Dodge Colt model. Have you been by a Chrysler store lately? Our local Dodge dealer took on Chrysler and Jeep since the Chrysler dealer about .5 mile down road was closed down by company during the bankrutcy. So Dodge sells Chrysler, Jeep, Ram Truck, and Dodge. It's a zoo there with oil changes taking two days after you leave the vehicle. Hopefully the new Fiat dealerships will get Alfa's in a year or so and become viable because the Chrysler/Dodge dealerships around here can't handle the traffic jam in their stores now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Ford was stupid to offer the Titanium trim Focus... nobody thought to offer a high content econobox before... Speaking of high content econoboxes, Ford deserves kudos for offering all 2013 Focus models in the U.S. - S, SE, SE Appearance, Titanium, and ST - with a manual transmission. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Ford was stupid to offer the Titanium trim Focus... nobody thought to offer a high content econobox before, so it must have been a bad idea with poor sales, right? Ford saw a demand for it, and more importantly, they saw huge potential profits. Where is the demand for and profit in manual F-150's? There isn't any. It's not like this is new ground for Ford. They know how this story ends: when Ford used to offer them they did nothing but collect dust on dealer lots. Your analogy only really makes sense if Ford at one point used to offer a high content econobox in the past and didn't sell any of them but brought one back again anyway. Edited May 18, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Where is the demand for and profit in manual F-150's? Reminds me of rubber-mat three-in-the-tree F-100's. The good ol' three-in-the-tree, now with synchro first gear! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro-man Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yep. A pickup is supposed to have a stick shift. With a reeeeaaaally long throw. And a torquey straight six. Oh, and yes, rubber floor mats. Now that's a truck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Reminds me of rubber-mat three-in-the-tree F-100's. The good ol' three-in-the-tree, now with synchro first gear! I still remember the metal dashboards with the hole in middle covered up because buyer didn't order it with radio. You had to have that cigarettle lighter and opening vent window though because everyone smoked in those days. I kind of miss the opeing vent windows even though I never smoked. Having power windows was a big deal and something to brag about. A cupholder was something you bought at the auto supply store or Kmarts. And everyone worked on their own cars, changed oil, plugs, and points and fuel filter. And much more like water pumps and brakes. No big deal in those days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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