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Ford, GM to jointly develop 9 and 10 speed transmissions

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From this evening's Auto News:

 

 

"DETROIT -- General Motors and Ford Motor Co. are jointly designing nine- and 10-speed automatic transmissions for use across their lineups in a bid to boost fuel economy.

 

GM is leading design of a nine-speed gearbox for use in front-wheel-drive vehicles, said three people familiar with the companies' plans. Ford is taking the lead on a 10-speed transmission for rear-wheel-drive vehicles such as pickups, SUVs and performance cars, the sources said.

 

The companies began work on the transmission program early this year, one supplier source said. They still are in the design phase and likely won't be prepared to start production before 2015, the source said.

 

The project is expected to produce significant financial savings in engineering and product development for both automakers. The companies would combine the gearboxes with their separate engines via software and hardware."

 

 

Full article here:

 

 

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I guess they liked how the 6F/6T70 transmission JV worked out so they decided to do it again...

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Where is the point of diminishing returns?

 

When Ford gets involved with G.M. managment ?

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I'm still dubious that designing these new automatic transmissions in-house, even with General Motors' collaboration, will net Ford Motor Company the predicted cost savings.

 

Wouldn't licensing transmission designs from Aisin AW or ZF (as Chrysler has done) be a better approach?

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Wouldn't licensing transmission designs from Aisin AW or ZF (as Chrysler has done) be a better approach?

 

Why would you want to pay a royalty on a transmission that would easily be in the 500K plus range in sales? Aisin and ZF have to make money some how. Its pretty oblivious that Chrysler is lacking the design smarts to do its own transmission...

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Why would you want to pay a royalty on a transmission that would easily be in the 500K plus range in sales? Aisin and ZF have to make money some how. Its pretty oblivious that Chrysler is lacking the design smarts to do its own transmission...

 

Plus, you have complete control over quality. See: Navistar

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Wow, 9 and 10 speeds? Where is the point of diminishing returns?

 

Right before plaid.

 

LUDICROUS_fd8622_1077047.jpg

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Wow, 9 and 10 speeds? Where is the point of diminishing returns?

 

When I was a kid, most folks were totally happy with a two-speed automatic.

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When I was a kid, most folks were totally happy with a two-speed automatic.

When two-speed slushboxen were the rage, most people were totally happy with a manual transmission...

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I'm still dubious that designing these new automatic transmissions in-house, even with General Motors' collaboration, will net Ford Motor Company the predicted cost savings.

 

Wouldn't licensing transmission designs from Aisin AW or ZF (as Chrysler has done) be a better approach?

Obviously not because Ford would be signing up, let's not forget the 6R80 is a ZF built under license.

 

Ford lead development on a 10-speed auto RWD trans to be shared with GM makes good sense

GM lead development on a 9-speed auto FWD/AWD trans to be shared with Ford makes good sense

 

A transmission programming expert might be able to explain better how having more

intermediate gear steps in a gearbox eliminates some throttle transients in EPA testing.

Makes you wonder if those 9-10 speed transmissions can be reconfigured for hybrids too..

Edited by jpd80

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What I wonder about is how quickly they'll shift, and how many of the gears will be deep overdrive gears for highway cruising.

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What I wonder about is how quickly they'll shift, and how many of the gears will be deep overdrive gears for highway cruising.

Like mimicking a CVT with none of the disadvantages

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What I wonder about is how quickly they'll shift

 

I'm guessing it will be extremely fast and nearly imperceptible to the driver. I mean, it will have to be since there are so many gears to go through.

 

, and how many of the gears will be deep overdrive gears for highway cruising.

 

I bet not as many as you think. I'm betting we will see extremely close ratios with a wide spread to enable the use of smaller engines. Maybe a triple OD.

 

So when you lock out OD for towing, you only get a 7 speed! :headspin:

Edited by fordmantpw

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What I wonder about is how quickly they'll shift, and how many of the gears will be deep overdrive gears for highway cruising.

 

The 8-speeds in the Chrysler 300, BMW 5 and 3 series are heralded for their smooth shift points and ability to keep the car in power. They compared it favorably to the double-clutch units in sports cars. I think its inherent in 8 speed autos.

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The ZF 9HP is a nine-speed automatic transmission, designed but not built by ZF Friedrichshafen AG subsidiary ZF Getriebe GmbH in Saarbrücken.[1] As a front-transverse transmission, it will debut in front-wheel drive and All-wheel drive vehicles. ZF touts the new design as being able to save an average of 16% in fuel usage over current 6-speed automatic transmissions. Tentative ratio spread is 9.84:1. Transmission will have a torque range between 280 and 480 Nm.[1]

The production of the 9HP will start in 2013 with a unit of 400,000 per year at the fleet in Greenville, South Carolina.[2]

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I'm still dubious that designing these new automatic transmissions in-house, even with General Motors' collaboration, will net Ford Motor Company the predicted cost savings.

 

Wouldn't licensing transmission designs from Aisin AW or ZF (as Chrysler has done) be a better approach?

 

Mustang 5.0 manual trans ring a bell?

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Mustang 5.0 manual trans ring a bell?

And that had everything to do with the quality of sourced units from China, not the design of the Getrag box also used globally in Transit.

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...Chrysler is lacking the design smarts to do its own transmission...

 

Judging by the multitude of issues with the current Joint Venture tranny (6T & 6F series), so are General Motors and Ford.

 

Plus, you have complete control over quality.

 

So now Ford can sue GM and vice versa over which party is at fault for the engineering issues that keep cropping up, from self-grenading torque converter clutches and wave guides to valve bodies that don't stay sealed. Woohoo!

Edited by aneekr

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And that had everything to do with the quality of sourced units from China, not the design of the Getrag box also used globally in Transit.

And that's another reason to do it yourself: control over sourcing. Ford can subrogate claims to Getrag, but can't make them change processes.

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I still don't know what all the hype is about cars getting 40 and 47 MPG. My wife leased a Nissan Sentra in 1996 for $99 per month and Nissan paid the property taxes. Sorry, guys it was too good to pass up. But I got 52 MPG with that car, a 5 speed manual with overdrive. And back then I didn't even use the techniques I use now! What ever happened to the free wheeling clutch like on the 60's Saabs? Here it is 2012 and we can only get 47 MPG? Sad.

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Simple. That car was, comparatively speaking, a rattly and poorly equipped rolling death trap.

 

And I'm not even going to get into the "Your mileage may vary" business of comparing your mileage with the EPA estimates.

Edited by RichardJensen

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Joe771476, I have a similar story. One of my long dead family members traveled to this country on this magical vehicle that didn't require any gasoline, diesel fuel, or electricity. However, it took weeks to get here and there were no safety, convienienve, safety, entertainment, or safety features to speak of.

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Its pretty oblivious that Chrysler is lacking the design smarts to do its own transmission...

 

...and stupid Chrysler got it in their vehicles years before their competitors did. They saw a design that worked and were smart enough to grab it.

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