New Light & Medium Duty News

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

What is the street address of the Avon Lake factory or better yet, the coordinates?   Meanwhile, I remember reading in here that Ford was bringing back the Maverick nameplate.  Did they know back then that the recent Top Gun movie was coming out?!  Hmmmm.  Anyway, it was part of my father's day gift and I hadn't been to a movie theater in 30 years until yesterday. Very enjoyable and I spotted a 68-ish Bronco (Hi Bob!) and an Expedition I believe.

650 Miller Rd, Avon Lake, OH 44012, United States

 

That movie was in production before covid hit and dragged on until Cruise could get to out this year.

[iamweasel]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:55 PM, 7Mary3 said:

 

At this point why not just buy a Freightliner SD series and save a ton of money.  

 

Which SD are you referring to?  114SD or 122SD?  (Which are completely different cabs.)

 

This will clear itself up in the next few months as the 122SD will be discontinued at the end of this year.  The X-Series (47X/49X) will now be the flagship "Premium Vocational" truck for DTNA.  The 114SD will still be available but the cab is different than the X-series.  The 114SD is the "Budget Vocational" model - The 47X cab is much nicer and stronger.    

 

The other differences are:

- Engines:  The 114SD can only get L9/X12/DD13 engines just like the 47X.   If you want bigger power (DD15/DD16/X15) then you need to buy a 49X.   Without the 122SD, there will be no Freightliner equivalent to the 49X.

- Configurations:  Relative to the 114SD/47X, there will be far more options available on the 47X such as twin steers and other specialized options.  

 

Lastly, as far as Western Stars winning bids, they will never be lower priced than Freightliner.  The only time Western Star typically gets bid wins is when there is no Freightliner dealer submitting a bid and/or the bid gets written specifically for Western Star which is pretty easy to do.  (One way to rig it is to put in the bid docs "must have a BBC at 112-inches or less and must have a Detroit engine."  That eliminates everyone but Western Star.)  

[7Mary3]

19 hours ago, iamweasel said:

 

Which SD are you referring to?  114SD or 122SD?  (Which are completely different cabs.)

 

This will clear itself up in the next few months as the 122SD will be discontinued at the end of this year.  The X-Series (47X/49X) will now be the flagship "Premium Vocational" truck for DTNA.  The 114SD will still be available but the cab is different than the X-series.  The 114SD is the "Budget Vocational" model - The 47X cab is much nicer and stronger.    

 

The other differences are:

- Engines:  The 114SD can only get L9/X12/DD13 engines just like the 47X.   If you want bigger power (DD15/DD16/X15) then you need to buy a 49X.   Without the 122SD, there will be no Freightliner equivalent to the 49X.

- Configurations:  Relative to the 114SD/47X, there will be far more options available on the 47X such as twin steers and other specialized options.  

 

Lastly, as far as Western Stars winning bids, they will never be lower priced than Freightliner.  The only time Western Star typically gets bid wins is when there is no Freightliner dealer submitting a bid and/or the bid gets written specifically for Western Star which is pretty easy to do.  (One way to rig it is to put in the bid docs "must have a BBC at 112-inches or less and must have a Detroit engine."  That eliminates everyone but Western Star.)  

 

I was thinking the 122SD.  The 114SD and 108SD always seemed to me to be heavier duty M2's with more vocational options.  Good trucks for the money if they fit your application.  I see what you are saying, if Freightliner drops the 112SD there will not be any real overlap between Freightliner and Western Star vocational trucks.  Western Star offers some factory options that no one else does and that will always win them bids.  Way back I was told that International got a lot of oil field business (Haliburton, Schulmberger, ect.) because they cataloged some very specialized trucks for those specific applications. 

 

Over the years I have seen some very creative spec. writing!  I have also seen such spec. writing result in some very unanticipated winning bids..... 

[twintornados]

I will say I have seen an uptick in Western Star trucks in Central NY area.

[ice-capades]

As I was leaving my condo earlier, these trucks were pulling in to do tree work. I was a little surprised to see the Ford F-750.

 

 

[ford20]

I have to agree, I never see WS trucks anywhere in Southern NY except for the occasional Class 8 truck. What I am seeing in NYS is the DOT HELP trucks are increasingly more and more Ram 2500+ when they used to be Ford 250+.

 

When you look at the pictures of the 750 compared to the old International, you can really see where the problems are with the 750 competing in the Class 5 / 6/ 7 market. I have a 650 on order despite these flaws, it's the first one in my final mile fleet, so hopefully, it works out. The cab on the 650 & 750 is so much narrower than any of the other major offerings from Freightliner, International, KW,/Peterbilt, and Hino (except for the Mack MD which is wider, but not much since it's based off the Granite which isn't designed as a 3 person vehicle to begin with) because it is based on the super duty so it makes it tough to get 3 people in a truck all at once which is why you see so many Extended Cab variants which costs more money and make the truck longer. For tree trimming services, that usually send multiple vehicles out on a job, this isn't a problem since you can do 2 people per vehicle. For delivery vehicles, the extra length added to get 3 people in it isn't the best thing.

 

Then you get to the visibility which is pretty atrocious especially compared to the Freightliner M2's. Just the windshield alone on the old International (which is still smaller than the Freightliner) is so much bigger than in the 750. Even the Mack MD series has better visibility than the 650/750. I haven't seen a Powerstroke version of the 650/750, but when looking at the clearance from the top of the 7.3 to the hood, Ford could easily reduce the height of the hood and make it sloped a bit more similar to the KW T280/ or Peterbilt 536 so you can see a little bit better. As is, it's difficult to see across the hood and you sure as shit don't really know where your passenger side fender ends. Even making the hood shorter would probably help improve the turning radius which is a reason why the Mack MD looks a bit funny. The bumper to back of cab ratio is the shortest in the class 5 / 6/ 7 market I believe and has one of the best turning radius. When I went to go drive one, the truck was wedged between a truck in front of it parked perpendicular and one parked parallel to me on the left. I was a bit surprised that I was able to make it out of the spot in one shot because the turning radius was so good. I would say the turning radius on the 650/750 is either on par or slightly worse than the Freightliner we currently have. Ford makes a good product and the fleet managers I talk to at UPS, Ready Refresh, Hersey Ice Cream, the tree trimming companies etc. really seem to like the trucks. If Ford can get a real cab on those trucks, I would be shocked if they wouldn't increase their market share. Especially when you consider the technological offerings that they have that others don't. 

[twintornados]

2 hours ago, ford20 said:

...The cab on the 650 & 750 is so much narrower than any of the other major offerings from Freightliner, International, KW,/Peterbilt, and Hino (except for the Mack MD which is wider, but not much since it's based off the Granite which isn't designed as a 3 person vehicle to begin with) because it is based on the super duty so it makes it tough to get 3 people in a truck all at once which is why you see so many Extended Cab variants which costs more money and make the truck longer. For tree trimming services, that usually send multiple vehicles out on a job, this isn't a problem since you can do 2 people per vehicle. For delivery vehicles, the extra length added to get 3 people in it isn't the best thing....

 

...or, you can always hire smaller workers.

[ice-capades]

There's no Medium Truck forum or location on the site for the production information so I've created a 2024MY Medium Duty Production Information sub-forum under the main Production & Sales forum.

https://blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/74245-2024my-medium-truck-production-information/

All future production information updates will be posted there. I'm including the information here for initial reference only. 

 

Per today's FDNB (Fleet Distribution News Bulletin) below is the scheduling and production timetable for the 2023/2024MY Medium Trucks.

• 01/31/2022 - 2023MY Fleet Final Order Date
• 10/13/2022 - 2023MY Last Day to Spec Change
• 12/23/2022 - 2023MY Balance Out Date
•  
• 10/17/2022 - 2024MY Order Bank Open Date
• 11/17/2022 - 2024MY Scheduling Begins
• 01/03/2023 - 2024MY Job #1 Date

The 2024 Medium Truck Order Guides will be released on or about the date that the USOB (Unscheduled Order Bank) opens and will be available for download in the Dealer Order Guides section.

All dates are subject to change. 

[Joe771476]

I went to Hershey Park and they had about 5 Chevy vehicles on display and I saw Chevrolet is a corporate supporter.  But they had 20 in a parking lot of what I believe were shuttles...all Transits!

[silvrsvt]

On 6/20/2022 at 4:23 PM, jpd80 said:

That movie was in production before covid hit and dragged on until Cruise could get to out this year.

 

It was done before COVID and just dragged out till this summer. I remember them releasing the toys for it in Summer 2020 because they where done. 

Smart move by Paramount, considering its the most successful movie so far this year. 

[jpd80]

53 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

It was done before COVID and just dragged out till this summer. I remember them releasing the toys for it in Summer 2020 because they where done. 

Smart move by Paramount, considering its the most successful movie so far this year. 

Considering my post was a month ago, I can only assume that something offended you, so sorry whatever it was.

[silvrsvt]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:03 AM, jpd80 said:

Considering my post was a month ago, I can only assume that something offended you, so sorry whatever it was.

? 

 

I just  saw it and it wasn’t an attack  

[j2sys]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:03 AM, jpd80 said:

Considering my post was a month ago, I can only assume that something offended you, so sorry whatever it was.

 

Responding to a post a month later is not indicative of any issues...  ? 

[ausrutherford]

The JMC is moving from the Transit Gen 2 to the Transit Gen 3: https://www.autohome.com.cn/news/202207/1255534.html#pvareaid=2028166

 

Not sure how it will effect the Ford Transit Pro, which is facelift itself of the Gen 3.

 

[bzcat]

I think Transit Gen 2 based JMC Teshun will stay in production. Ford will just move the price point down further.

 

The new Gen 3 based mode is called JMC Fushun so it has a different name - indicating it will run parallel to Teshun.

 

JMC Teshun RMB105,800 - 143,800

JMC Fushun ???

Ford Transit (Custom but not using the suffix in China) RMB126,400 - 232,800

Ford Transit Pro (Gen 3 Transit) RMB163,800 - 283,900

Ford Tourneo (Custom but not using the suffix in China) RMB186,900 - 275,800

 

You can see there is a price gap between Teshun and Transit Pro for LWB high roof van - the most expensive Teshun is below the starting price of the cheapest Transit Pro. Foshun will fill in that gap. I get the impression FWD Transit (Custom) has not been that well received in China because of the size. It's too big to compete with the compact vans that GM dominate and too small to compete with all the Sprinter clones that are super popular in China. I think if Ford had a do-over, they probably would have introduced the Gen 4 Transit instead of Transit Custom.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by bzcat

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, bzcat said:

I think Transit Gen 2 based JMC Teshun will stay in production. Ford will just move the price point down further.

 

The new Gen 3 based mode is called JMC Fushun so it has a different name - indicating it will run parallel to Teshun.

 

JMC Teshun RMB105,800 - 143,800

JMC Fushun ???

Ford Transit (Custom but not using the suffix in China) RMB126,400 - 232,800

Ford Transit Pro (Gen 3 Transit) RMB163,800 - 283,900

Ford Tourneo (Custom but not using the suffix in China) RMB186,900 - 275,800

 

You can see there is a price gap between Teshun and Transit Pro for LWB high roof van - the most expensive Teshun is below the starting price of the cheapest Transit Pro. Foshun will fill in that gap. I get the impression FWD Transit (Custom) has not been that well received in China because of the size. It's too big to compete with the compact vans that GM dominate and too small to compete with all the Sprinter clones that are super popular in China. I think if Ford had a do-over, they probably would have introduced the Gen 4 Transit instead of Transit Custom.

 

To be honest, Ford knows that  Transit Custom is not a good fit outside of European markets.

 

Speaking of vans, the mass switch to BEVs may end up deciding things for JMC

Edited July 26, 2022 by jpd80

[ausrutherford]

19 hours ago, jpd80 said:

To be honest, Ford knows that  Transit Custom is not a good fit outside of European markets.

 

Speaking of vans, the mass switch to BEVs may end up deciding things for JMC

I still wonder if the Custom would work here since Mercedes sells the Metris aka Vito/V-Class.

[GearheadGrrrl]

The Custom might sell well here because the full size Transit even with low roof is too tall for 7 foot garage doors and the Connect is too small for many customers.

[jpd80]

Sales of Metris in Q2 was 3,946

[bzcat]

We discuss this before. Transit Custom is in no-men's land with respect to GVWR so doesn't make sense in the US. Fleet operators would rather just "abuse" a Transit 150 to do the job with very little cost penalty. 

 

Metris only exists here because Mercedes cannot sell Citan, its Transit Connect competitor in the US due to the fact that it is a rebadged Renault and no suitable gas engine drivetrain. 

[jpd80]

If there was any likelihood of decent sales, Ford would have sold Transit Custom in North America, the fact that it never did tells us everything we need to know. If anything Tansit Custom would have just cannibalised sales of Transit and Transit Connect.

Edited July 27, 2022 by jpd80

[GearheadGrrrl]

I pretty much agree, NA van market is too small for 4 sizes of Transit. That said, Transit Custom might be a better fit for NA than Transit Connect...

[twintornados]

14 hours ago, jpd80 said:

If there was any likelihood of decent sales, Ford would have sold Transit Custom in North America, the fact that it never did tells us everything we need to know. If anything Tansit Custom would have just cannibalised sales of Transit and Transit Connect.

 

Ford also dragged their heels to bring Ranger back to North America because they were concerned that it would cannibalize F150 sales, we see how that went.

[jpd80]

43 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

Ford also dragged their heels to bring Ranger back to North America because they were concerned that it would cannibalize F150 sales, we see how that went.

Mulally refused to even discuss Ranger and Bronco, both subjects were off the table until he left and Fields was in the chair. Ironic that Ford didn’t consider Ranger until after GM showed there was product space Below Silverado for Colorado - that’s what encouraged Ford to bring back Ranger, annoys me they didn’t take T6 Ranger in 2011 but the vehicle Ford wanted back then was more Maverick sized….

 

You have to wonder if Ford had been truly on the ball, it could have had all of today’s  exciting products  nearly a decade ago.

Edited July 28, 2022 by jpd80

[twintornados]

25 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

....annoys me they didn’t take T6 Ranger in 2011 but the vehicle Ford wanted back then was more Maverick sized….

 

..and now, they have both. Tells me that there IS room for Transit Custom in the NA market, but production space is too tight to fit it in, one possible place to build it would be Flat Rock if the line can handle that size of it....77 3/4 inches in height may be too tall for Flat Rock....Continental is 58 1/2 inches tall.