I'm wavering guys...

[Iiari]

Hi everyone,

 

I planned to go into a dealer this weekend to start to get a sense of what some of them could offer me for an MKZ lease and was mentioning this to a coworker. He just leased a very nice Caddy ATS for what I thought was a surprisingly low rate. Hearing I'm looking at the MKZ, he says, "A Lincoln!? What's up with that grandpa?" *(I'm 39, he's in his mid-40's).

 

You know Caddy has arrived as a brand when their new age owners are as annoying as BMW drivers.. Well, I had previously discounted the ATS for several reaons. Option for option, it listed for thousands more than the MKZ and had lacked some features I wanted (cooled and massaging seats, sunshade, heated rear seats, the 110 volt connection in the car, pano, etc). I was also interested in maximal MPG, and with the RWD 2.0 ATS there was still a 15 mpg difference in the cars even assuming an MKZ Hybrid average of 39 mpg.

 

Well, given my coversation with my coworker, I played with the online configurators. Here's what I found:

 

'13 MKZ Hybrid, near loaded:

Price: About $46,500, zero down, 2 year lease, 15,000 miles with incentives: about $730/month

 

'14 ATS 2.0 RWD, near loaded:

Price: About $51,500, zero down, 2 year lease, 15,000 miles with incentives: about $660/month

 

Whoa! What's up with that? That $70 or so per month is slightly more, given my miles driven, than what I would spend for the increased gas with the ATS.

 

Also not helping is reading about all of the service issues everyone is having. I know my local Caddy dealer, in a brand new palatial building, is excellent (I used to get my Saab service there) while my 1970's style Lincoln dealer hasn't gotten back to me twice on questions I've emailed them, not a good start...

 

Then Ford Europe releases this Fusion Vignale line that has all these features I'd love the MKZ to have...

 

I think I have to at least look at the ATS now, but folks, remind me why again I need to get the MKZ Hybrid? I'm wavering!

[fordmantpw]

You have to pay $17k to drive it for 2 years, then just walk in and hand them the keys?

 

Wow, glad I don't lease!

[twintornados]

........I think I have to at least look at the ATS now, but folks, remind me why again I need to get the MKZ Hybrid? I'm wavering!

ATS comes in a Hybrid?

[MicKeyZ]

Can't speak to leases since I've always purchased [I'm kinda with fordmantpw about forking over $17,000 and the keys after two years. To each his own I guess ] As far as the Grandpa thing.....Don't people say the same about Cadillac (as a brand)?

 

I've only had my car for less than a week but I'm very satisfied so far (if not a bit overwhelmed with all there is to learn).

 

No need to follow trends....Set your own. After seeing your car, let your coworker be the one with doubts.

Edited September 5, 2013 by MicKeyZ

[2b2]

!!
the MKZ & ATS aren't in the same category imho
actually sounds like you haven't shopped enough yet

imho maybe neither are right for you?
like neither is right for me
tho what I'd want is a Z-Hybrid shrunk down to ATS-size

[RangerM]

I think I have to at least look at the ATS now, but folks, remind me why again I need to get the MKZ Hybrid? I'm wavering!

Consider.....

 

The payment isn't the only cost. I'd imagine the hybrid will save some on fuel. The lower price probably helps lower insurance costs.

 

And isn't the MKZ a bigger, more comfortable car?

 

Granted, the RWD thing is a big plus, but given you aren't going to own it (after 2 years of making payments), I'm not sure it's as big a plus.

 

I can't imagine how the ATS isn't going to lose at least as much (in value) as the MKZ-h. GM must really be overestimating that residual, or Ford is wildly overcharging on the interest rate.

Edited September 5, 2013 by RangerM

[ronshock]

Liari,

 

Have you test-driven a MKZ in any configuration as yet (Hybrid, 2.0L Ecoboost, or 3.7L V6)?? If not, you've got to try all three before deciding on the MKZ as a possible option or not.

 

I have done extensive test drives in each one and I too am now wavering, but for different reasons. I have followed the design of the MKZ from when the first concept drawings came out. I have loved the looks of it ever since. And then when I found out about all the features it would have (pano roof, advanced technology, clean interior design, etc.) and that it would be available as a Hybrid that got 45/45 mpg, I was darn sure I would own one this year! But now I'm not so sure. In fact, I'm pretty convinced that I will NOT buy a Hybrid if I even buy an MKZ. I really, really, REALLY wanted to like they Hybrid MKZ and for it be THE car for me. But I guess I'm too much of a lead-foot power-junkie. The 188hp and 129lbs-ft of torque it has just feels too weak IMO. And if the darn thing will only return MPG in the 30's (especially if driven in the more "spirited" style that I tend to drive), then I'd rather give up some MPG and either get the 2.0L Ecoboost or the big V6 and not feel like the car is underpowered. Plus NOW I'm wavering on the MKZ entirely because of another new car I had for an extended test-drive. For a few $K more, I could buy the new Infiniti Q50 Hybrid that has 360 HP and gets 28 city, 34 hwy, and 30 combined. And it is a full-on sports sedan rocket car! Wow, is it FUN to drive! It has tons of power and returns better mpg than the MKZ in either the Ecoboost or V6. Of course the down side besides the additional cost, is that the Q50 doesn't have some of the many amenities of the MKZ (e.g. Air Conditioned front seats, heated rear seats, power trunk lid, parallel park feature, pano glass roof, heated steering wheel (only available on AWD models of Q50).

Edited September 5, 2013 by ronshock

[blwnsmoke]

'13 MKZ Hybrid, near loaded:

Price: About $46,500, zero down, 2 year lease, 15,000 miles with incentives: about $730/month

 

Just checked my credit union and they are offering 1.99% for 66 months on a loan. With a loan amount of $46,500, payment is $744 a month. $14 less a month for a lease is ridiculous. You are better off taking a loan on it for that amount. You should be at least $150 less a month on a lease in my opinion for it to benefit you.

 

$17,500 in lease payments??? I think your car would be worth more then $29,000 ($46.5 - $17.5) with under $30,000 miles.

 

Just my $0.02

Edited September 7, 2013 by blwnsmoke

[Iiari]

I don't want to turn this into a lease vs buy forum, but I don't think buying makes sense for me. After years of owning vehicles for 5-7 years, I would want to update much sooner now. And say I purchased as the poster suggested above. It is still 700ish a month out of my pocket and would I get 30k back on a trade-in or even selling a 2 year old MKZ on the market myself (even if I wanted the hassle)? A quick look at asking prices on Cars.com on 2 year old MKZs says maybe not... And this doesn't factor in the maintenace costs of years 2-5ish of ownership...

 

My original point was supposed to be that the Lincoln lease seems very high, higher than cars that cost much more. By pure msrp I always thought (and still do) that the MKZ is a bargain for its features. There were other vehicles I had ruled out since their prices were thousands more, but given different leasing pricing maybe I shouldn't have done so... I really DO like the MKZ, I just thought I'd be looking at high 500s to low 600s for leases, NOT the same amount as if I purchased... Again, I have yet to have a dealer tackle this issue. This is all the configurator...

 

Regarding the Q50h as pointed out above, I am going to look at it since actually the closest dealer in my commute to work is actually an excellent Infiniti outfit. That said, while on paper it seems perfect, there is just something about Infiniti in their design that feels even less premium than Lincoln. You could slap a Kia or Mazda badge on anything they do and not question it. I sat for a long time in the Q50 at an auto show rrcently, and felt its interior was a giant step back from their current motif. Their current M interior feels faaaarrr more upscale than the Q50. That said, its not hard to believe it's a better driver. That's never been their problem, although several recent reviews have suggested driving dynamics may have suffered in this redo. Their models, in part due to aggressive lease deals, have depreciation on par or perhaps worse than Lincoln. If you are serious about getting one, I would seriously think about waiting two years. I am...

 

I have also long justified a string of Acuras, mb, bmws, and now Saab ownership that when the domestics were there product wise they would get my money. Well I think that day is here and it's time for me to put my money where my mouth is.

[twintornados]

Buy the Lincoln and enjoy the exclusivisity of being in a luxury car that doesn't need to scream it to the nieghbors....THAT is what Lincoln ownership is about.

[AlRozzi]

I have having a very difficult time distinguishing one Cadillac from another when I see them on the road and I pride myself as someone who can name any car I see. Why do they all have to look exactly alike? Small, medium or large...?

 

And why is RWD such a big deal? Most folks aren't going to test their car through a slalom to see if they can discerne a difference in handling. Who can tell?

[mettech]

Wait for the new CTS.

[akirby]

IF you're going to get a new vehicle every 2-3 years then leasing makes sense. The question isn't whether to lease or buy its how long you plan to keep it.

[Marginal Economist]

I don't want to turn this into a lease vs buy forum, but I don't think buying makes sense for me. After years of owning vehicles for 5-7 years, I would want to update much sooner now. And say I purchased as the poster suggested above. It is still 700ish a month out of my pocket and would I get 30k back on a trade-in or even selling a 2 year old MKZ on the market myself (even if I wanted the hassle)? A quick look at asking prices on Cars.com on 2 year old MKZs says maybe not... And this doesn't factor in the maintenace costs of years 2-5ish of ownership...

My original point was supposed to be that the Lincoln lease seems very high, higher than cars that cost much more. By pure msrp I always thought (and still do) that the MKZ is a bargain for its features. There were other vehicles I had ruled out since their prices were thousands more, but given different leasing pricing maybe I shouldn't have done so... I really DO like the MKZ, I just thought I'd be looking at high 500s to low 600s for leases, NOT the same amount as if I purchased... Again, I have yet to have a dealer tackle this issue. This is all the configurator...

Regarding the Q50h as pointed out above, I am going to look at it since actually the closest dealer

in my commute to work is actually an excellent Infiniti outfit. That said, while on paper it seems perfect, there is just something about Infiniti in their design that feels even less premium than Lincoln. You could slap a Kia or Mazda badge on anything they do and not question it. I sat for a long time in the Q50 at an auto show rrcently, and felt its interior was a giant step back from their current motif. Their current M interior feels faaaarrr more upscale than the Q50. That said, its not hard to believe it's a better driver. That's never been their problem, although several recent reviews have suggested driving dynamics may have suffered in this redo. Their models, in part due to aggressive lease deals, have depreciation on par or perhaps worse than Lincoln. If you are serious about getting one, I would seriously think about waiting two years. I am...

I have also long justified a string of Acuras, mb, bmws, and now Saab ownership that when the domestics were there product wise they would get my money. Well I think that day is here and it's time for me to put my money where my mouth is.

 

I would guess the configuration is incorrect. I have seen leases advertised at 400 month with 3500 down. I would guess you could be under 550 with a pretty well equipped MKZ and zero out of pocket.

[Iiari]

I would guess the configuration is incorrect. I have seen leases advertised at 400 month with 3500 down. I would guess you could be under 550 with a pretty well equipped MKZ and zero out of pocket.

That was kind of my presumption as well. Given that a 51+K ATS was around 660 on the configurator I was hoping a 5K less MKZ would be in the low 600's. Truecar.com puts an estimate at around 610, and that was what I was hoping to get.

 

Interestingly, I used the Lincoln configurator to price out a 46K 2.0 MKZ identically equiped to the hybrid, and it came in about 670 per month, about 60 less than the identically equiped hybrid but still more than the 5K more ATS. I can't explain these things at all unless, as you point out, either the configurator is wrong or Ford Credit has some poor leases...

[hotcarl]

Are you taking into account the tax credit from the Federal government or is that available for purchases only?

[timf]

There is no tax credit for full hybrids. It only applies to plug in vehicles.

 

By all means, make sure you get a dealer to quote you the lease rate. In my experience, the lease price offered at the dealership has been lower than what the website advertises. They will also factor in taxes and other fees which the website doesn't include.

[RichardK]

You have to pay $17k to drive it for 2 years, then just walk in and hand them the keys?

 

Wow, glad I don't lease!

You have the option of doing that. However, there can be equity on a lease trade in. Also, you can sell the vehicle, payoff the lease balance and pocket any equity. Remember, leasing is not renting. You are financing the depreciation, instead of the whole car.

 

I have only leased since 1997 and it has worked out well. I always drive something new and it is never out of warranty.

Edited September 10, 2013 by RichardK

[akirby]

Unless you get some incredibly subsidized cheap lease, leasing is always more expensive than buying and keeping it for 4-5 years because the first 2 years take the biggest hit on depreciation.

 

IF you want a new car every 2-3 years then leasing is a great way to finance that. But you will pay for it.

[RangerM]

Perhaps a silly question, but can you lease an off-lease car?

 

I mean a car that was leased for two years, and you come after and lease it afterward? Seems like the depreciation would be less, therefore the payments, and given how long cars last nowadays, I'd expect no problems.

[akirby]

You can but you'd need a 3rd party to finance it (bank, leasing company, etc.). The factories don't usually do that (BMW/MB might be an exception). My guess is they would only do that for expensive vehicles to make it worthwhile.

[drob23]

If you want to lease a car in this class, wouldn't it be smarter to go BMW 3 series or MB c class? I thought they promoted leasing heavily by subsidizing residual values, something that Ford is trying to get away from? 700/mnth could probably get you into a 5 series with a V8. I know the Lincoln will be more luxurious, but the caddy was pretty much designed to be a carbon copy of the e46 3 series.

[twintornados]

New lease deals on Lincoln MKZ Hybrid is showing at $389 a month for 36 months....

Lincoln MKZ lease offers

[Iiari]

If you want to lease a car in this class, wouldn't it be smarter to go BMW 3 series or MB c class? I thought they promoted leasing heavily by subsidizing residual values, something that Ford is trying to get away from? 700/mnth could probably get you into a 5 series with a V8. I know the Lincoln will be more luxurious, but the caddy was pretty much designed to be a carbon copy of the e46 3 series.

 

That might all be true, but as I mentioned above, I believe the domestic labels finally have competitive products (the new CTS has been getting great early reviews online) and I'm committed to rewarding them for their efforts and keeping my money with US makers.

 

Out of curiosity for a different reason, by the way: Does anyone know when used car prices start to drop due to the new model year arriving ? I imagine the used market is tied to the publication of certain guides (KBB, Black Book, etc) . Does anyone know when this is?

[Marginal Economist]

Black book is published at least every other week.