"Should Lincoln, Ford's Legendary Luxury Brand, Head to the Scrap Heap?"

[2b2]

After discussing this very article/topic on a few auto sites lately, one interesting tidbit keeps coming to light:

 

Ford/Lincoln and the careful guarding of information.

 

I've been on this site a long time, long enough to remember the original articles about what would be the Coyote engine program, the idiot calling himself "The Lemon", and a lot of articles that leaked serious Ford information years ahead of time.

 

Nowadays...Ford keeps their secrets more closely guarded, and I speculate that it may actually hurt the brands occasionally.

 

"Seeing comes before wanting" is a powerful truth in mankind, and I know I'm not the only one that loves seeing prototype pics and getting snippets of news about the mechanical updates on coming models. That said...Ford is keeping any news leaks very carefully controlled in recent years, and that means less snippets of information to get excited about.

 

The upcoming Mustang is a great example. Most of the renders have been poor, or obvious mash-ups, and while I'm among those in suspense for the car, Lincoln doesn't have that audience or overall cachet...so it's not like there's been a slew of MKS renders (beyond one C/D photoshop) or people begging for next-gen Navigator information.

 

I actually believe Lincoln could be better at controlled "leaks", something to keep some bits of information keeping the brand name swirling in automotive conversations. The upcoming engines/powertrains are only referenced in vague rumors and we don't have any "future Lincoln" visuals beyond the almost-here MKC.

 

Lincoln suffers from perception issues, I think we can all agree. I believe that the efforts of the styling team(s) and the engineers could be carefully "previewed" better than they have been, something to get some prospective buyers salivating like next-gen Mustang fans are.

 

major , Zan!!

 

I was thinking about an aspect of this earlier - that as somewhat of a Lincoln-fan/follower, it wouldn't take much to make me say "forgettaboutit".

 

If my own timeline guess of:

Only ONE New Vehicle Per Year...thru 2016 or maybe 2017

is true**

I'm gonna hafta find some other brand to pay attention to...that's more worthy of my time.

(& frankly, my time ain't even worth all that much)

 

 

** less hectic than watching grass grow ... judging by how often that has to be cut

Edited October 18, 2013 by 2b2

[ZanatWork]

Like I told a Ford employee on another forum:

It's easy for the media to decimate Lincoln in articles when all the upcoming fruits of the new designs and engineering are so well guarded that there's nothing "upcoming" to report except the MKC. On the other hand, there's all the problems of the slow-selling brand to talk about...that knowledge is solid, if (hopefully) short-sighted.

So, any article on Lincoln is doomed to be either the known bad news, or a ton of speculation. The article that begat this thread obviously chose the former, which is safer for the reporter.

[akirby]

Remember the new Camaro that debuted in Transformers a full 2-3 years before the production version? Great hype - at the time - but by the time the vehicle got here people had been waiting so long it was no big deal.

 

If Lincoln was about to die, then maybe they could use the hype but they're not. Not announcing details gives Ford a competitive advantage when it comes to new features, designs and technology. Why tell the competition what you're doing 1-2 years ahead?

Especially if you're looking for long term sales and viability, not short term.

 

Short term PR, like online/magazine reviews, are greatly overrated in terms of translating to long term sales.

[NickF1011]

I think the lack of apparent desperation on Lincoln's part by not doing some of the things suggested here shows just how stable the brand may actually be.

[akirby]

I think the lack of apparent desperation on Lincoln's part by not doing some of the things suggested here shows just how stable the brand may actually be.

 

Exactly. I don't see a company making desperate moves. I see a company taking it's time, making a comprehensive long term business plan and executing on that plan.

 

Having lived through the Lincoln LS fiasco (business wise, not the car itself) I'm glad to see they're taking a more comprehensive long term approach without all of the distractions of PAG and Mercury.

[ZanatWork]

Building anticipation with current approaches is bizarre. The Camaro lead-up was bizarre to the other extreme, although it does seem similar to the "Black Label" announcement a year early for...what amounts to trim options.

When Lincoln has some kind of sales success, the word "stable" has more viability. Until then, Lincoln could be doing more to draw some positive attention to itself, or the only story IS the dearth of sales and a product line desperately in need of improvement. Hence, no point in complaining when journalists report on the information they have.

As for the "distraction" of Mercury, when managed well, the brand was a fantastic addition to Ford overall, and a great stepping stone to Lincoln. It was a consistent failure of management, not the brand, that made it vulnerable. If Lincoln ever achieves actual luxury brand status, Mercury could very easily have a niche to fill again.

[EBFlex]

Until then, Lincoln could be doing more to draw some positive attention to itself, or the only story IS the dearth of sales and a product line desperately in need of improvement.

 

Remember though that Ford could say anything they want regarding Lincoln to try and influence buyers and the market.

 

They have done it before where they have said something and then a short time later, completely reversed course. I don't think anyone knows what they are doing with Lincoln....even the people running it. Very disorganized.

[akirby]

As for the "distraction" of Mercury, when managed well, the brand was a fantastic addition to Ford overall, and a great stepping stone to Lincoln. It was a consistent failure of management, not the brand, that made it vulnerable. If Lincoln ever achieves actual luxury brand status, Mercury could very easily have a niche to fill again.

 

Any vehicle that would work as a Mercury will work just as well as a Ford or a Lincoln - without the overhead of an extra brand. Look at the hoops that GM has to jump through to give Buick products without infringing on Chevy and Cadillac. It could be done but would serve absolutely no purpose from a business standpoint. The only case that can possibly be made for Mercury is sentimental.

 

 

I don't think anyone knows what they are doing with Lincoln....even the people running it. Very disorganized.

 

Absolutely correct. Lincoln should be killed immediately. What idiots!

[2b2]

...Not announcing details gives Ford a competitive advantage when it comes to new features, designs and technology. Why tell the competition what you're doing 1-2 years ahead?...

 

I rather believe that the competition KNOWS even well before many employees or the press ...fans are second last**

 

 

I think the lack of apparent desperation on Lincoln's part by not doing some of the things suggested here shows just how stable the brand may actually be.

 

 

the "stability" of

new vehicle per year is the scariest part for me

 

 

** last = dealers

Edited October 19, 2013 by 2b2

[akirby]

I bet the competition doesn't know. If it was that easy for them to find out then Ford wouldn't go to all that trouble to keep it a secret.

 

It's not going to be ONE new vehicle per year. The MKX, MKC and refreshed Navigator should all debut next year. The MKS won't be far behind (at least a nice refresh).

[2b2]

afaik

MKC = only new cy2014/2015my**

Navigator is a heavy refresh of current version

MKX will go on sale as a 2016my even *IF* it's shown next year

 

 

** at least it's better than cy2013/2014my which has had NO new model

&

there could be a surprise like:

but

there's absolutely no evidence for it so far

[ZanatWork]

I'm sorry, but you must show evidence of the business case or lack thereof, instead of just demanding that the readers assume your opinion is truth.

 

Any vehicle that would work as a Mercury will work just as well as a Ford or a Lincoln - without the overhead of an extra brand. Look at the hoops that GM has to jump through to give Buick products without infringing on Chevy and Cadillac. It could be done but would serve absolutely no purpose from a business standpoint. The only case that can possibly be made for Mercury is sentimental.

 

 

Absolutely correct. Lincoln should be killed immediately. What idiots!

[akirby]

I'm sorry, but you must show evidence of the business case or lack thereof, instead of just demanding that the readers assume your opinion is truth.

 

 

Killing Mercury did not hurt Ford's sales. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Not to mention common sense and the fact that no other mfr has 3 brands except GM.

[2b2]

 

Killing Mercury did not hurt Ford's sales. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Not to mention common sense and the fact that no other mfr has 3 brands except GM.

FoMoCo's sales^ not just the Ford Brand

&

imho

putting Mercury on hiatus did not happen overnight.

The Kill-Merc faction within FoMoCo had been working against Mercury for a long time (example: exiting Canada)

 

In 1993 Merc sold over 480,000 vehicles in the U.S.

in 1999: 438,000.

Imho, those numbers have to be put into the equation;

instead of just looking at Mercury in the later part of the Oughts-decade.

 

Afaik-without-googling, FoMoCo has not made up those numbers yet

 

 

 

edit

re: "no other mfr has 3 brands except GM"

if you meant purely domestic, there's really only 2 so no "other"

&

I can think of others with more than 2 in Europe & Asia

Edited October 20, 2013 by 2b2

[VanWhelan]

I think in regard to the article, it does raise a lot of valid points. Rightly or wrongly, the overall premise is that the perception of Lincoln is that the overall brand strategy has not changed - Lincoln still continues to re-badge and gussie-up existing Ford models, and tries to pass them off as something other than the base Ford models.

 

For instance, I do like the look of the MKZ - but in reality it is (for the most part) a Ford Fusion underneath. Some of the body panels & other exterior elements may be different - but to me it's just a fancy Fusion. Same goes for the MKS - I like the car, but in reality it's just a fancied-up Taurus. Quite honestly, if I wanted to buy a car like that, I'd save the extra $10- 15k and just buy the Taurus version of the car.

 

I think one of the major issues at hand is whether Ford/Lincoln will actually listen to its potential customers, or will they just push their current strategy and let the brand die a slow death? When Ford killed off Mercury, they stated that Mercury offered nothing different, because their cars were just fancier versions of the base Ford models. Well, what do you think Lincoln is right now?? So does this mean that in 2-3 years, that we'll be hearing the same proclamation of death for Lincoln?

 

I agree... Lincoln needs a RWD car. I drive a F-150 pickup every day, and it's one of the best riding vehicles I've been in. And I think to myself... if Ford could/would only put this kind of RWD ride into a car, they would really have something. But they don't... or won't...

 

Lincoln also really needs to come up with something new and different. Look, if I wanted a BMW or Lexus, I'd buy a BMW or Lexus. But for me - and I'm sure lots of you will agree - I would like something different. The fact is that every car maker out there is building a Lexus copy - everything has that same roofline and overall shape. On the other hand, look at the 2002 Lincoln Continental concept - that's what I'm talking about. If Lincoln built that (in RWD), I would buy it in a heartbeat. I LOVE the classic American shape & the nod to the classic Continentals of the 60's.

 

One of my favorite cars on the road today is the Chrysler 300. I've driven one, and it's a great ride. Chrysler gets it. Even though Chrysler has their issues, they have produced a car that is a classic throwback to the cars of the 60's. It's RWD - and it's a very American car - it doesn't look like a BMW or Lexus or whatever. Between the 300 and the Challenger, Chrysler has put out two great-looking cars with a great modern take on classic designs. Rather than basing a new car on the latest BMW or Lexus, I think that Lincoln should use the Chrysler 300 as a base, and run with that. Make a new MKS that's a better American sedan than the 300 and compete with that. That's what I would like to see Lincoln come up with. I think Lincoln could take that and carve out their own niche and create a new market of their own. Maybe some of those potential BMW buyers might look at a Lincoln that has an American feel to it, rather than a Euro wannabe.

 

The other problem is that we're hardly hearing anything from Lincoln about what they have in the works. Give us something to get excited about. Tell us what's coming in the next 2 or 3 years. Sorry, but a new crossover SUV doesn't do it for me. When I think of Lincoln, I think of American luxury cars.

 

My $0.02

Edited October 20, 2013 by VanWhelan

[chevys]

I think in regard to the article, it does raise a lot of valid points. Rightly or wrongly, the overall premise is that the perception of Lincoln is that the overall brand strategy has not changed - Lincoln still continues to re-badge and gussie-up existing Ford models, and tries to pass them off as something other than the base Ford models.

 

For instance, I do like the look of the MKZ - but in reality it is (for the most part) a Ford Fusion underneath. Some of the body panels & other exterior elements may be different - but to me it's just a fancy Fusion. Same goes for the MKS - I like the car, but in reality it's just a fancied-up Taurus. Quite honestly, if I wanted to buy a car like that, I'd save the extra $10- 15k and just buy the Taurus version of the car.

 

I think one of the major issues at hand is whether Ford/Lincoln will actually listen to its potential customers, or will they just push their current strategy and let the brand die a slow death? When Ford killed off Mercury, they stated that Mercury offered nothing different, because their cars were just fancier versions of the base Ford models. Well, what do you think Lincoln is right now?? So does this mean that in 2-3 years, that we'll be hearing the same proclamation of death for Lincoln?

 

I agree... Lincoln needs a RWD car. I drive a F-150 pickup every day, and it's one of the best riding vehicles I've been in. And I think to myself... if Ford could/would only put this kind of RWD ride into a car, they would really have something. But they don't... or won't...

 

Lincoln also really needs to come up with something new and different. Look, if I wanted a BMW or Lexus, I'd buy a BMW or Lexus. But for me - and I'm sure lots of you will agree - I would like something different. The fact is that every car maker out there is building a Lexus copy - everything has that same roofline and overall shape. On the other hand, look at the 2002 Lincoln Continental concept - that's what I'm talking about. If Lincoln built that (in RWD), I would buy it in a heartbeat. I LOVE the classic American shape & the nod to the classic Continentals of the 60's.

 

One of my favorite cars on the road today is the Chrysler 300. I've driven one, and it's a great ride. Chrysler gets it. Even though Chrysler has their issues, they have produced a car that is a classic throwback to the cars of the 60's. It's RWD - and it's a very American car - it doesn't look like a BMW or Lexus or whatever. Between the 300 and the Challenger, Chrysler has put out two great-looking cars with a great modern take on classic designs. Rather than basing a new car on the latest BMW or Lexus, I think that Lincoln should use the Chrysler 300 as a base, and run with that. Make a new MKS that's a better American sedan than the 300 and compete with that. That's what I would like to see Lincoln come up with. I think Lincoln could take that and carve out their own niche and create a new market of their own. Maybe some of those potential BMW buyers might look at a Lincoln that has an American feel to it, rather than a Euro wannabe.

 

The other problem is that we're hardly hearing anything from Lincoln about what they have in the works. Give us something to get excited about. Tell us what's coming in the next 2 or 3 years. Sorry, but a new crossover SUV doesn't do it for me. When I think of Lincoln, I think of American luxury cars.

 

My $0.02

Spot on post. Lincoln needs to start being Lincoln and distance themselves from Ford. Either that or just rename Lincoln to Mercury and make a go of it.

Edited October 20, 2013 by chevys

[ZanatWork]

The Chrysler 300 (and the Charger, and Magnum) benefited from having "hand me downs" the originated in a previous Benz E-Class platform, and it served Chrysler well, especially initially.

The lack of differentiation is an ongoing topic, and while some will point out that Lexus and Audi also have vehicles with shared platforms/mechanicals, both brands have products above and beyond the levels seen in the more "common" brands. Toyota doesn't market LS, GS, or IS equivalents with Toyota USA, and you won't find A8 or R8 equivalents in a VW dealership.

Lincoln will have "upgraded Ford" models, that's no crime. The problem is that, for now, it's all they have.

[NickF1011]

The Chrysler 300 (and the Charger, and Magnum) benefited from having "hand me downs" the originated in a previous Benz E-Class platform, and it served Chrysler well, especially initially.

 

The lack of differentiation is an ongoing topic, and while some will point out that Lexus and Audi also have vehicles with shared platforms/mechanicals, both brands have products above and beyond the levels seen in the more "common" brands. Toyota doesn't market LS, GS, or IS equivalents with Toyota USA, and you won't find A8 or R8 equivalents in a VW dealership.

 

Lincoln will have "upgraded Ford" models, that's no crime. The problem is that, for now, it's all they have.

 

Yet the models that actually keep those brands in business aren't those using unique platforms.

 

And NONE of us here know Lincoln's financials. The "problems" you are all complaining about are only problems because you say they are.

 

If the MKC is even mildly successful like the new MKZ has been so far, that will leave Lincoln with 3 relatively stable vehicles in MKZ, MKC, and MKX. When was the last time you could say that about Lincoln's lineup? Is the progress slow? Yes. Slower than you all like? Obviously. Is it so slow that it will kill the brand? Starting to not seem like it.

[jpd80]

Or you could be like GM and spend a fortune on yet another RWD platform to simply split the Sigma CTS market in two

and thoroughly confuse existing buyers with a lower expectation Compact and a much more expensive Mid sizer.

Time will tell if further addition of coupes variants will recover sales and vindicate the decision.

 

Sounds like a lot of hard work and expenditure for an almost zero nett gain over the Sigma CTS.

[akirby]

Or you could be like GM and spend a fortune on yet another RWD platform to simply split the Sigma CTS market in two

and thoroughly confuse existing buyers with a lower expectation Compact and a much more expensive Mid sizer.

Time will tell if further addition of coupes variants will recover sales and vindicate the decision.

 

Sounds like a lot of hard work and expenditure for an almost zero nett gain over the Sigma CTS.

 

Time will tell if moving the CTS up in size and price will result on a long term net gain. I think the money should have been spent on a hybrid CTS and a Lambda Caddy first. And if the CTS is getting larger why do you need the XTS?

 

It's like the Caddy product team just sits around and says "what would be cool to build this time?" without regard to profit or marketability. They're too concerned with building a "BMW fighter" or a hugely overpriced 2 door Volt.

[Iiari]

 

Time will tell if moving the CTS up in size and price will result on a long term net gain. I think the money should have been spent on a hybrid CTS and a Lambda Caddy first. And if the CTS is getting larger why do you need the XTS?

 

It's like the Caddy product team just sits around and says "what would be cool to build this time?" without regard to profit or marketability. They're too concerned with building a "BMW fighter" or a hugely overpriced 2 door Volt.

Well, the XTS was something of a stopgap until the true flagship (not the super-expensive one they stopped development on) appears in a few years. It'll probably go away then. I agree Caddy needs a hybrid somewhere pretty soon.

 

Overall, given their strategy to play in the BMW/MB/Audi sphere, I actually think Caddy is doing a good job...

[NickF1011]

 

Overall, given their strategy to play in the BMW/MB/Audi sphere, I actually think Caddy is doing a good job...

 

Cadillac has a more rounded out portfolio than Lincoln, but they also had a considerable head start. Given that, I don't think they are as far along as they should be. I mean if people are considering the MKZ to be a so-so success or even a failure by some, then Cadillac can only be considered as having one truly successful vehicle too, which is the SRX.

[akirby]

Well, the XTS was something of a stopgap until the true flagship (not the super-expensive one they stopped development on) appears in a few years. It'll probably go away then. I agree Caddy needs a hybrid somewhere pretty soon.

 

Overall, given their strategy to play in the BMW/MB/Audi sphere, I actually think Caddy is doing a good job...

 

They're doing a relatively good job at making high performance sedans and coupes. But from a business standpoint they're wasting billions on new platforms and spending money on niche products instead of establishing a comprehensive lineup including high volume sellers like regular hybrid sedans.

[xgman]

Didn't the CTS just get MT Car of the year?

[akirby]

That was 2003.