"Should Lincoln, Ford's Legendary Luxury Brand, Head to the Scrap Heap?"

[ZanatWork]

I figure I'll get resented for sharing this...but the people who'd resent me resent me anyway, so nothing at all to lose...right?

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-09-20/should-lincoln-fords-legendary-luxury-brand-head-to-the-scrap-heap

Some quotes, which I should point out, are NOT written by myself, but are from the article:

“At the moment, it looks very marginal,” says Bill Visnic, Edmunds.com senior analyst. “The brand is exhausted, and what they’re putting out there is not worthy of carrying a luxury tag.”

"The problem is that the MKZ is mostly a Ford Fusion with a different logo and some fancy design elements, according to Visnic and other analysts. This is what is referred to in the industry as “badge engineering”: retooling the face of the brand without drastically overhauling its guts—the frame, drive-train, and all the other expensive and critical infrastructure of a car.

“With premium, rear-wheel drive is building block No. 1,” Visnic said. “Lincoln is still trying to push gussied up versions of front-wheel drive Ford cars.”"

 

"Sales of the new MKZ are up 24 percent since it hit dealerships in August. Not shabby at all. But in that time, U.S. buyers snapped up 36 percent more BMW 3-series sedans than they did in the year-earlier period."

I even put it in the Lincoln section, this time.

Now, I fully expect some usual suspects to come and work at discrediting the pulication, the author, the article, the quotes, the moon phase when the article was published, and anything that agrees with what myself and others have been saying here for years...and what we've seen people across different media saying, as well.

I guess sitting with fingers firmly in ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA LA" at what's being said so often and so widely in more comfortable than facing what remains loudly stated from so many sources.

I don't want Lincoln scrapped, but I don't pretend to be impressed by plans that don't seem to help more than 1-2 models, and those on largely shared bones, at a time. I think they could be, and should be, doing better.

[akirby]

Anyone who claims the new MKZ is badge engineered is simply wrong. Badge engineering doesn't include bespoke sheet metal or an exclusive engine or an exclusive suspension system. The 2012 was a rebadge. Not the 2013.

 

The worst you can say is that it uses a Ford FWD platform, which by itself doesn't mean anything cause its a very good platform to begin with.

 

Compare the Lexus ES to the Avalon, then compare the Fusion and MKZ, then compare the ES and MKZ and explain why the MKZ is worse than the ES without mentioning any other vehicles.

[ZanatWork]

Oh, I've said plainly that the Fusion is better than the Camry/Avalon, and that the MKZ is better than the ES...but all defense of Lincoln nowadays starts with "...yeah, but the MKZ..." because the rest of the line, minus the MKX, is floundering. Even said MKZ, as addressed in the article, is having less of a sales spike than the 3-series in the current auto sales boom...despite being the shining light of the Lincoln lineup.

Lexus and Infiniti bruought proper flagships when they debuted. Acura did not. Lincoln is, time and time again, asked for a proper rear-drive vehicle and further differentiation from the Ford donors because, in many cases, it's been far too obvious. Lincoln is trapped in the same "wannabe" status that Acura is in.

The article re-states what has been stated repeatedly before, and this won't quit until Lincoln either defines itself as a true luxury brand...or fails. I know there will be years in the gray area until one fate or the other happens, but in the meantime...the same statements will continue, and the basic appearance is that Lincoln is being asked for something it hasn't provided, and is selling at less than half of what it should to be even vaguely successful.

This is just the latest version of observations that are very similar, from different sources. I truly hope it takes less than the (again) surmised decade to right the ship.

[akirby]

I think it's time to pull out the only appropriate response........

 

OK

[chevys]

IBTL.

[Iiari]

IBTL.

Haha... Certainly, lots of trolling and silliness abound. There are lots of legitimate questions about branding everywhere in the auto industry, especially as the venerated premium brands (I'm going to avoid the "luxury" tag right now, because I don't think any of the BMW's or Lincolns or Volvos or anyone is truly "luxury") zoom into the mainstream pricing territories with their CLA's and 1 classes.

 

- What is "luxury?" Is exclusivity or rarity a factor?

- If we take the OP's bait and say that Lincoln isn't a "luxury" brand, than what is? Which brands pass and which fail and why?

- Does pricing range matter? Can you still be a luxury brand and sell $29999 cars and $129999 cars?

- In an increasingly all AWD world all the time, who cares about FWD vs RWD? BMW and MB are about to release FWD platforms in the US, and the majority of US 1 series owners believe (wrongly) that their car is FWD, and yet people still buy them.

- Every analyst screams that makers have to maximize economies of scale and share everything, from engines to platforms. Why then do we expect anyone (Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, etc) to be completely bespoke? And again, if a great car results, who cares?

- History anyone? As has been pointed out, anyone who thinks the MKZ is a rebadge doesn't understand history or product design. There are lots of absolutely true examples of badge engineering stinking up the history of US (and overseas) makers.... The MKZ (or Avalon, or A4, etc) aren't it... Oh, and speaking of history, lots of "luxury" vehicles in history have shared lots of platforms, engines, etc with other makers, and this is essentially what coachbuilding was to a degree...

- In an age when technology is rapidly being democratized into entry level vehicles (especially some recent Kias), does technology equal luxury? Infiniti is betting their future luxury cred farm on being more technologically advanced than everyone else. Is that wise?

- Who cares about flagships? So what Lexus makes 2-300 money-losing sports cars almost no one can afford that can lap the ring in near 7 minutes? What does that have to do with the ES sitting next to me in the parking lot?

- Why do we think Ford could or should turn LIncoln around in 10 years or less? It took Audi like 30 years or so of superior product with near unlimited VW resources to reach perceived parity with other brands. Caddy is 15 years into their effort and is respected but still not seen at the level of the German big three. Volvo, despite a long, deep brand history is tanking in the US and the big three earned their reputations by having many decades, 50-60+ years of consistent product. Ford's supposed to do this in 5-10 years? This is going to take a LONG time folks, if ever...

 

I believe these are all fascinating questions. A few things are clear already. Ford is obviously NOT going to go the Caddy route of bespoke platforms and RWD performance machines. They've made blatently clear they are aiming for a "relaxed" premium space that Lexus used to occupy before it decided to become another BMW and do bizarre styling. As a journalist recently said about their SUV concept, they miss the old anodyne Lexus. Everyone in the last 10 years, including MB, Jaguar, Volvo, and Audi, BTW, have all decided they too want to be ultimate driving machines. I wish them all luck. They all can't be BMW and many are losing their way trying to do so. Again, Ford has said they are NOT DOING THIS. Certainly one can question the strategy, but I think they have a point.

 

Their point seems to be that differentiation will be key to future premium success. Kind of the coachbuilder strategy. They're going to base it on their other engineering, but Lincolns will be different, both from Fords and other products on the market. Is the MKZ the absolute, ultimate, home run example of this. No, absolutely not. But the FORD PEOPLE also say it isn't as well. They get that they need to do much more of that differentiation and do it better. Every Ford professional has said that.

 

Can they execute? We'll see. I personally think we can't begin to judge until 2 more generations out (about where Caddy is now) how successful they have been at establishing a unique and different Lincoln experience, a sense of occasion about sitting down in a Lincoln that's different from everything else on the market. I personally think the MKZ is an acceptable start. I'm old enough to remember (dating myself here) that 1st gen CTS sales absolutely sucked early on, languishing in 1960's era Caddy dealer buildings staffed by 70 year old men wearing white golf shoes. And I remember there were a lot of "experts" in the media self-congratulating themselves and back slapping, saying, "See!? No one will buy a sporty, contemporary Caddy! Cimmeron, Cimmeron, Cimmeron!" I thought of that a lot this week as media types were gushing with praise over the impressive new CTS-V sport (which, BTW, will command an amazing $60+K).

 

Lincoln won't be BMW, won't be Caddy, it'll be something else. I'm willing to give Max (who was barely around for the MKZ) and co a lot more rope and time to see what they do. It'll be a fun ride. If they don't differentiate more than the MKZ, they probably won't be around very long, but I think they know that. I bet they do just fine...

[MicKeyZ]

“With premium, rear-wheel drive is building block No. 1,” Visnic said. “Lincoln is still trying to push gussied up versions of front-wheel drive Ford cars.”"

 

 

Maybe it's critic thing (or a guy thing) but not everyone worships at the altar of RWD. I personally could care less.

[twintornados]

[ZanatWork]

A great many have and continue to vote with dollars for rwd, which has kept most series of Benz and BMW going forever. Lexus and Infiniti both had rwd flagships upon their arrival, and it helps to differentiate the higher reaches of the line from lesser, more "badge engineered" examples. I believe this is the safest approach, business-wise; the lower models can be forgiven for their shared components while higher models have to justify their more exotic materials and engineering with prices to match.

Lincoln has been held out of the higher levels of the game for an ongoing number of reasons, dating back (at least) to the Donald Peterson days. The worst holdup was likely the whole PAG stupidity combined with the complete uselessness of Nasser, which meant Lincoln was going to be applying "lipstick" for some time afterward.

Neither customers nor analysts need to be concerned with history or reasons, just products. This is why, despite people attempting (badly and clumsily) to "educate" me on business cases and other points I know quite well, I try to point out that Lincoln needs bold product, some vehicles that don't require conditional "...good for a Lincoln" statements, but instead are just plain good choices among their competition. The MKZ is a better car than the ES, but it's practically the only bright spot in the brand right now.

I've seen countless justifications for mediocrity thrown around here. I want Lincoln to shut those people up as much as anyone else.

[Iiari]

Lincoln needs bold product, some vehicles that don't require conditional "...good for a Lincoln" statements, but instead are just plain good choices among their competition. The MKZ is a better car than the ES, but it's practically the only bright spot in the brand right now.

I've seen countless justifications for mediocrity thrown around here. I want Lincoln to shut those people up as much as anyone else.

Amen to all of the above...

 

The MKZ isn't a bad start at all. I too would rather have one than an ES, Cadenza, Avalon, or any of the other cars that occupy its "entry level" niche and even a fully loaded one is many thousands less than many competitors. As far as being the "only bright spot," for now, it is, as it's the first of the new Lincoln, as the 1st gen CTS was once the only bright Caddy spot...

 

If Lincoln is going to shut people up, though, it's not going to be with chest thumping, RWD sports sedans that the media demands. They've made that clear. Audi got to the top of the heap with AWD versions of FWD platforms, and Lincoln will apparently do likelywise...

[akirby]

A great many have and continue to vote with dollars for rwd, which has kept most series of Benz and BMW going forever. Lexus and Infiniti both had rwd flagships upon their arrival, and it helps to differentiate the higher reaches of the line from lesser, more "badge engineered" examples. I believe this is the safest approach, business-wise; the lower models can be forgiven for their shared components while higher models have to justify their more exotic materials and engineering with prices to match.

Lincoln has been held out of the higher levels of the game for an ongoing number of reasons, dating back (at least) to the Donald Peterson days. The worst holdup was likely the whole PAG stupidity combined with the complete uselessness of Nasser, which meant Lincoln was going to be applying "lipstick" for some time afterward.

Neither customers nor analysts need to be concerned with history or reasons, just products. This is why, despite people attempting (badly and clumsily) to "educate" me on business cases and other points I know quite well, I try to point out that Lincoln needs bold product, some vehicles that don't require conditional "...good for a Lincoln" statements, but instead are just plain good choices among their competition. The MKZ is a better car than the ES, but it's practically the only bright spot in the brand right now.

I've seen countless justifications for mediocrity thrown around here. I want Lincoln to shut those people up as much as anyone else.

 

 

OK

[ice-capades]

Lincoln has finally committed to building the MKC as a 2015 Model Year vehicle! I posted information earlier this morning in the MKC Forum based on the information included in yesterday's Fleet Distribution News Bulletin (FDNB).

[chevys]

Lincoln strikes me as being very Buickish for a lack of a better term. I perceive the brand as a slight upgrade over the top of the line Fords with no significant meat on the table. The Lincoln Escape (mkc) will sell pretty decent I bet but how many of these sales cannibalize the top Ford equivalent model? I have always wondered this and I dont know if there is anyway to measure it.

[akirby]

Lincoln strikes me as being very Buickish for a lack of a better term. I perceive the brand as a slight upgrade over the top of the line Fords with no significant meat on the table. The Lincoln Escape (mkc) will sell pretty decent I bet but how many of these sales cannibalize the top Ford equivalent model? I have always wondered this and I dont know if there is anyway to measure it.

 

OK

[aneekr]

IBTL.

 

+1

Ultimately, Ford Motor Company executives will have to answer the question in the thread title. I trust they will eventually respond with a resounding 'yes' and conclude the experiment known as "Lincoln Motor Company".

[ZanatWork]

Lincoln can work, and with the MKC around the corner, it can gain some ground...but it will ultimately fail if it remains in "wannabe" status. Too much of the same, legit complaints will continue until the braver, more dynamic product is introduced to change some minds.

[akirby]

Lincoln can work, and with the MKC around the corner, it can gain some ground...but it will ultimately fail if it remains in "wannabe" status. Too much of the same, legit complaints will continue until the braver, more dynamic product is introduced to change some minds.

 

OK

[mettech]

5...4..3...2.....

[2005Explorer]

I've been pretty doubtful about Lincoln actually changing it's image and being able to compete with the best of the best in the luxury market, but I think it is unfair to judge the future of the brand until we see more new product. Right now the MKZ and to a lesser extent the MKX is all they really have to sell. The MKS just doesn't interest anyone and the MKT should never have been approved to roll down an assembly line in it's current form. The Navigator has been long forgotten not only by buyers, but by Ford as well.

 

I'd like to see the production MKC, the MKS replacement, the MKX replacement, Navigator re-fresh, and hopefully an Explorer based SUV to replace the whale before I judge if Lincoln needs to be put out to pasture or not.

Edited September 23, 2013 by 2005Explorer

[EBFlex]

I've been pretty doubtful about Lincoln actually changing it's image and being able to compete with the best of the best in the luxury market, but I think it is unfair to judge the future of the brand until we see more new product. Right now the MKZ and to a lesser extent the MKX is all they really have to sell. The MKS just doesn't interest anyone and the MKT should never have been approved to roll down an assembly line in it's current form. The Navigator has been long forgotten not only by buyers, but by Ford as well.

 

I'd like to see the production MKC, the MKS replacement, the MKX replacement, Navigator re-fresh, and hopefully an Explorer based SUV to replace the whale before I judge if Lincoln needs to be put out to pasture or not.

 

Here is the problem that I see. Lincoln has been in its 'rebirth' since the MKS was introduced. That marked a major shift in Lincoln vehicles in terms of quality and design. And here we are 4 years later talking about how there is no interest in the MKS. That's extremely telling. Thy car is 4 years old and has had a pretty substantial update in that time. And no one cares.

 

Again, Lincoln's problems are not with the product. It's with the brand itself. And a new name and some fancy grilles are not going to change that. Neither is problematic vehicles and launches.

 

The MKC will be interesting to watch. If it performs like the MKZ though, Lincoln will be in trouble.

 

1/5

[akirby]

Here is the problem that I see. Lincoln has been in its 'rebirth' since the MKS was introduced.

 

See - this is where you're absolutely wrong, but at least it explains why you're so skeptical. The MKS was engineered and designed in 2005-2006. This was before Mulally took over. It was before Ford sold off the PAG brands. It was before they hired Max Wolff and gave Lincoln a dedicated team of over 100 folks. It was before they killed Mercury and culled the dealer ranks. There is absolutely nothing about the current MKS that bears any relationship to what Lincoln is planning now.

 

Even the MKZ was already finished when Max took over and he was only able to make a few subtle changes. The MKC is the first "clean sheet" Lincoln to come out of the new regime and that's why we should wait and see. It will be at least 1-2 more years until we see the complete picture of where Lincoln is going, so criticising what they did 4-6 years ago is silly.

 

Oops........I mean........

 

OK

[theoldwizard]

"The problem is that the MKZ is mostly a Ford Fusion with a different logo and some fancy design elements, according to Visnic and other analysts. This is what is referred to in the industry as badge engineering

Anyone who claims the new MKZ is badge engineered is simply wrong.

Right or wrong it is people perception !

 

PERCEPTION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN REALITY !

 

 

I give Lincoln about 2-4 years and if it doesn't really turn a corner, they should pull the plug ! The problem is, will anyone have the guts to tell William Clay and Billy at that time !

Edited September 23, 2013 by theoldwizard

[akirby]

Perception of ACTUAL POTENTIAL BUYERS is more important than reality. Perception of negatards who would never buy one in the first place as well as magazine and internet reviewers is totally irrelevant.

 

And any automotive "analyst" who doesn't know the difference between platform sharing and badge engineering has no credibility to begin with.

Edited September 23, 2013 by akirby

[Iiari]

I'd like to see the production MKC, the MKS replacement, the MKX replacement, Navigator re-fresh, and hopefully an Explorer based SUV to replace the whale before I judge if Lincoln needs to be put out to pasture or not.

I think all that product would be great, but I want to give them a little longer than that. I'd say 2 more generations of that product, and then we can judge.

 

The Autoblog podcast, for example, was just talking last week about whether Cadillac's excellent product now "deserves" to be priced at German levels, and again, Caddy has been at this from a planning and engineering standpoint for 15+ years and, market-wise, 3 CTS generations, 2 SRX generations, 1 ATS generation, and 1 XTS generation. I don't count the 'Slade for various reasons.

 

Lincoln, by contrast, we're talking about 1 new MKZ generation, kinda, since as was pointed out above, the team they hired to really do the renaissance wasn't even fully in place for the MKZ. They've got a LONG way to go... I'm not judging this for a long time...

 

BTW: I don't have time to look it up now, but the MKZ is in no way a sales flop. In fact, I'd bet it's doing better than the first year of the CTS did in the early 2000's. They're setting MKZ model records for it and it's won some customer satisfaction awards with, let's all admit, a near historically botched launch.

[Iiari]

BTW: I don't have time to look it up now, but the MKZ is in no way a sales flop. In fact, I'd bet it's doing better than the first year of the CTS did in the early 2000's. They're setting MKZ model records for it and it's won some customer satisfaction awards with, let's all admit, a near historically botched launch.

Ooops. I'll correct myself there. I think the CTS was averaging about 4200 sales per month in its first full year on sale and I think the MKZ's best month has been around 4100 so far, generally ranging from 3200 to 3900. So, no... Oops.