SoonerLS Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Nissan frontier diesel now on display in Chicago. Last I checked, Ford quit playing in the Frontier's market when they discontinued the Ranger in the US. The Titan is the Nissan that's failing quite miserably at competing with the F150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Well, it is the biggest market in the US, and lest I remind you, the more expensive the vehicle, the smaller the market......I doubt their Superduty numbers are setting the world on fire....diesel OR gas.....I mean, how many can actually afford a $60k plus truck?...its getting crazy I swear.. The company my dad used to work for (big Ford fleet buyer in construction) used to buy almost entirely diesel Super Duties. Several years ago they switched mostly to F-150's (other than the chassis cabs) because they realized they had absolutely no use for the added capabilities of the Super Duty on the majority of job sites given the capabilities now offered by 1/2 tons and they especially had no desire for the rising costs. The most they'd usually tow would be a generator or traffic signage and the beds wouldn't haul around more than some tools or a couple workers or barricades. If they really needed to pull something heavy from one end of a job site to the other they'd just hook it up to a front end loader instead. For longer equipment hauls, even the Super Duties weren't usually sufficient anyway. Situations like that could explain why F-150 sales are still a bulk of F-series. Edited February 7, 2014 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Nissan frontier diesel now on display in Chicago. It's a concept car... not intended for production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It's a concept car... not intended for production. But if they just build it they can sell a bjillion of them cause everybody wants one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The company my dad used to work for (big Ford fleet buyer in construction) used to buy almost entirely diesel Super Duties. Several years ago they switched mostly to F-150's (other than the chassis cabs) because they realized they had absolutely no use for the added capabilities of the Super Duty on the majority of job sites given the capabilities now offered by 1/2 tons and they especially had no desire for the rising costs. The most they'd usually tow would be a generator or traffic signage and the beds wouldn't haul around more than some tools or a couple workers or barricades. If they really needed to pull something heavy from one end of a job site to the other they'd just hook it up to a front end loader instead. For longer equipment hauls, even the Super Duties weren't usually sufficient anyway. Situations like that could explain why F-150 sales are still a bulk of F-series. Now that you can get a Snowplow on the 2015 F-150's I think you'll see even more of the fleet market go to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Customers have been asking for a diesel 150 for at least a decade or more...however the 6.0 debacle has gotten customers a little wary. Customers buy diesels in many cases for status,not so much for practicality...BUT customers will hesitate to pay a $8000 premium for it. I think the biggest issue with the Ford 150 and diesels,in my opinion, is Ford doesn't want to damage the brand with another diesel engine debacle...it has to be bullet proof...and a performer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think the biggest issue with the Ford 150 and diesels,in my opinion, is Ford doesn't want to damage the brand with another diesel engine debacle...it has to be bullet proof...and a performer. I think that's a part of it too, specifically the performance. Folks are used to 350+ HP pickups now, and a 240 HP engine won't cut it. Heck, even the 3.7L V6 has 300+ HP. I'm not saying the engine would be a dog, but people would see the numbers on the engine and immediately dismiss it, not realizing the torque is what gives them the 'get-up'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Ford doesn't want to damage the brand with another diesel engine debacle...it has to be bullet proof...and a performer. Which is why the 4.5L never saw F-150 Duty, the NHV was horrid on that motor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Customers have been asking for a diesel 150 for at least a decade or more...however the 6.0 debacle has gotten customers a little wary. Customers buy diesels in many cases for status,not so much for practicality...BUT customers will hesitate to pay a $8000 premium for it. I think the biggest issue with the Ford 150 and diesels,in my opinion, is Ford doesn't want to damage the brand with another diesel engine debacle...it has to be bullet proof...and a performer. But are they asking for it because of the performance or the fuel economy? Any diesel that ends up getting offered in the F-150 is not going to be the top dog performer in comparison to the 3.5 EB or even 5.0. It's not really like calling a diesel F-150 a "super duty lite" which is what I think most of that "asking" was really for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 But are they asking for it because of the performance or the fuel economy? Any diesel that ends up getting offered in the F-150 is not going to be the top dog performer in comparison to the 3.5 EB or even 5.0. It's not really like calling a diesel F-150 a "super duty lite" which is what I think most of that "asking" was really for. And therein lies the rub. A half-ton diesel isn't going to add more towing ability as the trucks are held back by the chassis/brakes/etc. and not the engine. That isn't the case in 3/4+ ton trucks. Folks are used to paying more $$$ for more performance AND more MPG, not more $$$ for LESS performance and a few more MPG. That's what it will be in a half ton, and I think that very few folks will pony up for that. Sure, diesel is a status symbol when it gives you more performance, not less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) But are they asking for it because of the performance or the fuel economy? Any diesel that ends up getting offered in the F-150 is not going to be the top dog performer in comparison to the 3.5 EB or even 5.0. It's not really like calling a diesel F-150 a "super duty lite" which is what I think most of that "asking" was really for. They want both...and I am well aware the EB,direct injection gas engines are comprarable...and frankly far exceed a small displacement 1/2 ton diesel...however retail customers don't buy using logic in the majority of cases...they buy on emotion,and perceeved status..They want the diesel sound,diesel status,diesel mileage and diesel power in a 1/2 ton package. It's a tall order to do it right and enhance the brand that is the crown jewel of Ford Motor Company. Dodge will get some customers...I find most Dodge customers I encounter really don't "buy" a Dodge Truck in their minds..they are buying a "HEMI" or a "CUMMINS"...it just happens that a Dodge is wrapped around the engine that they want.. Edited February 7, 2014 by ironhorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 They want both...and I am well aware the EB,direct injection gas engines are comprarable...and frankly far exceed a small displacement 1/2 ton diesel...however retail customers don't buy using logic in the majority of cases...they buy on emotion,and perceeved status..They want the diesel sound,diesel status,diesel mileage and diesel power in a 1/2 ton package. It's a tall order to do it right and enhance the brand that is the crown jewel of Ford Motor Company. Dodge will get some customers...I find most Dodge customers I encounter really don't "buy" a Dodge Truck in their minds..they are buying a "HEMI" or a "CUMMINS"...it just happens that a Dodge is wrapped around the engine that they want.. Hey, zat thing got a EcoDiesel? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 A lot of people that buy a RAM 1500 Diesel will think it is a small Cummins unit, not the GM/VM Joint venture unit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Hey, zat thing got a EcoDiesel? You 'bout to find out....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Double irony if it is a Titan owner asking the ram 1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Customers have been asking for a diesel 150 for at least a decade or more...however the 6.0 debacle has gotten customers a little wary. Customers buy diesels in many cases for status,not so much for practicality...BUT customers will hesitate to pay a $8000 premium for it. I think the biggest issue with the Ford 150 and diesels,in my opinion, is Ford doesn't want to damage the brand with another diesel engine debacle...it has to be bullet proof...and a performer. something the Navistar sourced engines didnt provide..........apparently theres an ongoing MA SSIVE class action going on, I heard 200,000,000 mentioned?... Edited February 7, 2014 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 New term: Diesel mafia. you know who you are. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94bronco Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Now that you can get a Snowplow on the 2015 F-150's I think you'll see even more of the fleet market go to them. I don't think too many fleets are going to be plowing with F150's, for any commercial plowing you would be insane not to get a HD. Currently the prices on Super Duties are not that far off from F150's, when I bought my SD in May I was within 1K of a similar option F150 (More if you consider the 6.2 in the 150 which I would have gone with). Now that the CAFE ratings are strict on light duties and much less stringent on HD's we may see HD's actually end up cheaper in a few years due to lighter more expensive materials not being needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Ford has no fewer than three possible diesels it could have used in F150 - 3.2 I-5, 3.0 V6 and 4.4 V8.... You can bet that every alternate was explored before settling on the 2.7 Ecoboost, an engine built primarily for F150 but with wider applications, all of which avoid the cost of a diesel engine. It's probably these wider applications and scales of economy that make the 2.7 EB the obvious choice. One thing is for sure, the 2.7 Ecoboost is going to drive the diesel lobbyists nuts. Edited February 8, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Ford has no fewer than three possible diesels it could have used in F150 - 3.2 I-5, 3.0 V6 and 4.4 V8.... You can bet that every alternate was explored before settling on the 2.7 Ecoboost, an engine built primarily for F150 but with wider applications, all of which avoid the cost of a diesel engine. It's probably these wider applications and scales of economy that make the 2.7 EB the obvious choice. One thing is for sure, the 2.7 Ecoboost is going to drive the diesel lobbyists nuts. It will be interesting to see how the 2.7 stacks up. Currently, the Ram Diesel looks pretty potent. It has 420 pound feet of torque which is the same as the 3.5 ecoboost. Sure the gas turbo has way more HP, but diesel fans pay way more attention to the Torque figure. Gas milage for the current Ford 3.5 ecoboost truck is 16/22/18 and the Ram gets 20/28/23. I like the Ram specs much better overall. Some will argue that the tow capacity is greater in the gas Ford, but I will argue that if you are pushing the limits on a half ton, you really should be looking at a 3/4 ton truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) It will be interesting to see how the 2.7 stacks up. Currently, the Ram Diesel looks pretty potent. It has 420 pound feet of torque which is the same as the 3.5 ecoboost. Sure the gas turbo has way more HP, but diesel fans pay way more attention to the Torque figure. Gas milage for the current Ford 3.5 ecoboost truck is 16/22/18 and the Ram gets 20/28/23. I like the Ram specs much better overall. Some will argue that the tow capacity is greater in the gas Ford, but I will argue that if you are pushing the limits on a half ton, you really should be looking at a 3/4 ton truck. You're still comparing the figures of a four year old Ecoboost F150 with the best that Ram can offer. that all changes later this year. significant reductions in fuel economy are coming across the board for all F150s, the 2.7 EB will be the cherry on top. Get ready for a shock when Ford releases fuel economy figures for the lighter '15 F150, competitors already know what's coming..... Edited February 8, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 You're still comparing the figures of a four year old Ecoboost F150 with the best that Ram can offer. Duh... That's why I said currently. But the Ram took a quantum leap, and it is Ford playing catch up at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Duh... That's why I said currently. But the Ram took a quantum leap, and it is Ford playing catch up at the moment. The Ram took a quantum leap into a 420lb-ft diesel that is rated at ~8,500lbs towing less passengers & payload. And given the adoption of aluminum and Ford now having the lightest trucks and--because of GCWR considerations--the highest payload and towing in the sector, I really don't think they're playing catchup with a coil-sprung decorative object that just happens to have an oil burner at a $5k premium over base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossman351 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The reason there is no diesel F150 is because of the expensive after treatment system needed for a diesel to meet emissions requirements. Combined with diesel fuel being more expensive, the pay back for better economy is out of reach of most buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The Ram took a quantum leap into a 420lb-ft diesel that is rated at ~8,500lbs towing less passengers & payload. And given the adoption of aluminum and Ford now having the lightest trucks and--because of GCWR considerations--the highest payload and towing in the sector, I really don't think they're playing catchup with a coil-sprung decorative object that just happens to have an oil burner at a $5k premium over base. Correction, it is 9200lbs towing and a 4k premium over the base engine. People on here are comparing it to the 2.7 Eco boost, which will also have a premium on it, and probably a much reduced towing capacity over the V8, 3.5 as well. The Ram's towing capacity will be well suited for 90% of the towing applications that a half ton pickup is designed for. Will the same be said born the 2.7, not so sure. If you are pushing the capacity of a half ton, one should opt for a 3/4 ton anyway. The same can be said for the coil-sprung debate. If you are going to be overloading a half ton regularly, opt for a 3/4 ton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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