Ford says C-Max mpg reduction has hurt sales

[jpvbs]

I think MPG is like the HP. Some people like hp, some appreciate mpgs. It isn't just an economic decision. If the Mustang had it's power reduced to 380hp, it would have an effect on it's sales. It is understandable the reduction in mpg would have a negative effect on C Max sales.

[jpvbs]

Their conclusion was that this market is highly emotional rather than logical.

 

That pretty much describes the entire auto market.

[chevys]

Whether it hurt sales or not I guess is debatable. I think its poetic justice for the caper Ford pulled on the mpgs. 40 is the sweet spot and you will never make a business case for a hybrid.

[NickF1011]

40 is the sweet spot and you will never make a business case for a hybrid.

 

Ford's hybrids are profitable and likely bring in customers who would otherwise look to other brands if they didn't offer them. Seems like a sound business case to me.

[Deanh]

Whether it hurt sales or not I guess is debatable. I think its poetic justice for the caper Ford pulled on the mpgs. 40 is the sweet spot and you will never make a business case for a hybrid.

Beg to differ..A lady here witha C-max ( albeit an Energi ) has over 1600 miles on her car and still hasnt used her first tank of gas........

[NickF1011]

Beg to differ..A lady here witha C-max ( albeit an Energi ) has over 1600 miles on her car and still hasnt used her first tank of gas........

 

Hmmm. She may want to burn some of that off on purpose. Gasoline has a limited shelf life.

[jasonj80]

 

We've been over this before. Posted by MKII:

 

Escape sales

2004 183,430 - (inc. 2,993 hybrids)

2005 165,122 - (inc. 18,797 hybrids)

2006 157,395 - (inc. 20,149 hybrids)

2007 165,596 - (inc. 21,386 hybrids)

2008 156,544 - (inc. 17,173 hybrids)

2009 173,044 - (inc. 14,787 hybrids)

2010 191,026 - (inc. 11,182 hybrids)

2011 254,293 - (inc. 10,089 hybrids)

2012 261,008 - (inc. 1,441 hybrids)

 

C-Max 2013 total 35,210

The Market has changed a lot on top of the major issue Escape Hybrid was ALWAYS also component limited - Ford couldn't build as many as they wanted because of that.

[Deanh]

 

Hmmm. She may want to burn some of that off on purpose. Gasoline has a limited shelf life.

apparently the car senses that fact and starts up every now and then...

Edited April 23, 2014 by Deanh

[jpd80]

I wonder whether the reduced C-Max sales have more to do with other factors than any perceived short comings with it.

Bad weather in the North East the first few months combined with positive marketing from competitors like Prius

may have cost some sales.... I did notice that Ford's total hybrid sales for the first quarter were up.

 

March Sales:

Ford Fusion Hybrid.......................3,903 (3,417) ...(+14.22%)

Ford Fusion Energi PHEV............... 899 (295) ......(+204.75%)

Lincoln MKZ Hybrid ......................1,411 (446)........(+216.37%)

Ford Focus Electric .........................177 (180).......(-1.67%)

Ford C-Max Hybrid .......................1,685 (3.275)... (-48.55%)

Ford C-Max Energi PHEV ................610 (494).......(+23.48%)

FORD MOTOR CO. TOTAL ..........8,685 (8,107)....(+7.13%)

 

Strong sales of Fusion Hybrid, Fusion Energi and MKZ hybrid in March showed just how resilient hybrid sales are,

it could be that when seen side by side., people simply prefer the similar priced Fusion hybrid to the C-Max hybrid.

Edited April 23, 2014 by jpd80

[pictor]

It could be that the people who are not Prius cult members prefer sedans.

[jpd80]

It could be that the people who are not Prius cult members prefer sedans.

Exactly, Prius made it name by being different and a standout to other cars while a lot of mainstream buyers looking at hybrids prefer conventional shaped sedans.

[GaryG]

I've own 2 Ford Escape Hybrids and all I've heard on those forums since 2005 was hope they could convert the FEH to a plug-in hybrid. Non plug-in hybrid are dying folks, and that's all there is to it. Many of the folks on the Energi forums say they had a Prius, or a TCH, or a FEH and a FFH, and even '13 C-Max owners, and they all have switched including me to a plug-in. The Prius plug-in is a range joke and the Leaf is a cheap joke compared to the Energi. I'd say the Volt is too small inside, but its EV range has the Energi beat. Many Volt owners are buying the C-Max Energi for the family also for the room for that car seat.

 

So experienced hybrid owners are the people to look too as far as the market. Other new buyers of the non plug-in hybrids just have to learn their lessen the hard way. I think I made the right choice by going to a plug-in with an engine.

 

Gary

[Noah Harbinger]

I got mine during the period of time when the lower fuel economy was common knowledge, but not yet officially acknowledged, so I was not disappointed when the EPA rating was lowered (except insofar as we found out Ford rather cynically used a loophole to borrow the Fusion's rating knowing fully well the vehicle could never make those ratings on the test cycles - I and so many others thought it was just another gap between testing and reality). I guess the exterior is rather plan (though the candy blue is just gorgeous on it - I think it looks far better than the Focus or Fiesta with the same color. Maybe such a splashy color looks best on a plain canvas?), but I love hatches, and the car works perfectly for my needs. I would have bought it just as happily if it were a standard gas engine - maybe even more happily, since there would have been a bit cheaper, had slightly more cargo space, and maybe a real spare.

[Noah Harbinger]

I've own 2 Ford Escape Hybrids and all I've heard on those forums since 2005 was hope they could convert the FEH to a plug-in hybrid. Non plug-in hybrid are dying folks, and that's all there is to it. Many of the folks on the Energi forums say they had a Prius, or a TCH, or a FEH and a FFH, and even '13 C-Max owners, and they all have switched including me to a plug-in. The Prius plug-in is a range joke and the Leaf is a cheap joke compared to the Energi. I'd say the Volt is too small inside, but its EV range has the Energi beat. Many Volt owners are buying the C-Max Energi for the family also for the room for that car seat.

 

So experienced hybrid owners are the people to look too as far as the market. Other new buyers of the non plug-in hybrids just have to learn their lessen the hard way. I think I made the right choice by going to a plug-in with an engine.

 

Gary

 

The extra couple of inches required by the plug-in hybrid's batteries would have severely impacted my daily use of my car, so it wasn't an option for me.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

In my humble opinion, where Ford missed the most on the CMax is that they picked the wrong one. They really should have gone with the Grand C-Max as the base platform for the vehicle. Please hear me out:

 

1)The reason that most people that own minivans over SUVs are practicality and function over form. Most have at least a more than occasional need to carry more than 4-5 people. Most are looking for better operating costs than SUVs (not just fuel economy, tire costs are higher for SUVs, which is a big deal when you drive a lot). Not every minivan owner needs a van that's larger inside than the full sized vans of the 70s and 80s.

 

2)It would still be "different" as the only other vehicle similar to it in execution would be the slow selling Mazda5.

 

3)Its still small enough for the standard hybrid power pack to be viable as its sole powerplant.

 

I also believe that one of the key factors to the declining CMax sales is the almost complete lack of advertising. Aside from a random magazine ad, I just don't see Ford keeping the product in front of people.

 

In an ideal world, It would seem to me that a Grand C-Max hybrid, powered by a 1.5/1.6L EB based hybrid powerplant with PIH option, would have done much better than the current package and also brought a higher ATP as well. That way, you're doing one better than the PriusV as it can't boast a third row. As compared to every other three row vehicle out there, it would be much more efficient than any other one out there. Now, Ford has the chance to do it the right way with the Transit Connect Wagon minivan. It could be offered two ways, one with only the 1.5/1.6L EB, and another with the hybrid powerplant. There's so much untapped potential in that market. I can't even count the number of times I've heard other parents complaining that their giant minivan doesn't get that much better fuel economy than the SUV they chose it over. Many of them wish there was a hybrid minivan on the market. The customers are ready and waiting, someone just needs to build a product for them.

[jcthorne]

Cmax is too small and lacks AWD. In its base economy car segment, its too expensive.

 

If they had built an Escape Energi instead, it would have done far better. Escape is mainstream for Ford, Cmax is trying to enter a market segment where they are the underdog in the extreme.

[RichardJensen]

The Grand C-Max is not big enough to meet this need:

 

Most have at least a more than occasional need to carry more than 4-5 people

[Deanh]

personally I think Ford missed the boat on not offering the hybrid drivetrain in the new Transit connect...they would not have been able to keep up with demand from a commercial standpoint and that would have also trickled into retail passenger van sales...obviously where they are manufactured may be a huge reason...but MAN, that has Cha-Ching written all over it, Also, little off subject, but I think Fords shot them,selves in the foot design wise with the new Connects, 6 inchers lower roof height? Badly designed 2nd row seat flip up system, no eco boost in extended lengths?...and uncomfortable 2 nd row seats with an overly upright seatback sans of anny adjustment...sorry to be off subject...but NOT the best effort IMO.

[NickF1011]

personally I think Ford missed the boat on not offering the hybrid drivetrain in the new Transit connect...they would not have been able to keep up with demand from a commercial standpoint and that would have also trickled into retail passenger van sales...obviously where they are manufactured may be a huge reason...but MAN, that has Cha-Ching written all over it, Also, little off subject, but I think Fords shot them,selves in the foot design wise with the new Connects, 6 inchers lower roof height? Badly designed 2nd row seat flip up system, no eco boost in extended lengths?...and uncomfortable 2 nd row seats with an overly upright seatback sans of anny adjustment...sorry to be off subject...but NOT the best effort IMO.

Most of those shortcomings won't be noticed by the commercial market, which is where most of them will be destined to go anyway.

[Deanh]

Most of those shortcomings won't be noticed by the commercial market, which is where most of them will be destined to go anyway.

I think Ford is thinking they want to make greater inroads into the retail market, what with choices of 5 and 7 passengers....and if so, i think they have missed the mark...from the commercial side that 6 inch height difference undermines what was one of its strengths...

[NickF1011]

I think Ford is thinking they want to make greater inroads into the retail market, what with choices of 5 and 7 passengers....and if so, i think they have missed the mark...from the commercial side that 6 inch height difference undermines what was one of its strengths...

Eh, I think they'll be happy with some incremental increases from the retail versions, but the lack of investment in better features tells me that they aren't seeking it out very aggressively.

[Deanh]

Eh, I think they'll be happy with some incremental increases from the retail versions, but the lack of investment in better features tells me that they aren't seeking it out very aggressively.

will be interesting to watch...although I think they made an error by lopping 6 inches of height off the vehicle, the extended length was a step in the right direction, and adresses the main complaint I heard.....

[lfeg]

On the CMax, few cars sell themselves. That is what marketing is for. If no one is aware of that it is,what it does, and more importantly why YOU should buy one NOW (Marketings job) it will not sell. Ford dropped the ball on marketing. The car is invisible in ads and on dealer lots.

 

On the Transit Connect Ford did just what the commercial market did not want in cutting roof height. The taller roof height made it easier to downsize, as if something of a certain height would fit into the E vans, it would fit in the TC. Take that away and you loose a good advantage. And competition is coming, I have seen some Nissan NV200 small cargo vans on the road.

[Biker16]

In my humble opinion, where Ford missed the most on the CMax is that they picked the wrong one. They really should have gone with the Grand C-Max as the base platform for the vehicle. Please hear me out:

 

1)The reason that most people that own minivans over SUVs are practicality and function over form. Most have at least a more than occasional need to carry more than 4-5 people. Most are looking for better operating costs than SUVs (not just fuel economy, tire costs are higher for SUVs, which is a big deal when you drive a lot). Not every minivan owner needs a van that's larger inside than the full sized vans of the 70s and 80s.

 

2)It would still be "different" as the only other vehicle similar to it in execution would be the slow selling Mazda5.

 

3)Its still small enough for the standard hybrid power pack to be viable as its sole powerplant.

 

I also believe that one of the key factors to the declining CMax sales is the almost complete lack of advertising. Aside from a random magazine ad, I just don't see Ford keeping the product in front of people.

 

In an ideal world, It would seem to me that a Grand C-Max hybrid, powered by a 1.5/1.6L EB based hybrid powerplant with PIH option, would have done much better than the current package and also brought a higher ATP as well. That way, you're doing one better than the PriusV as it can't boast a third row. As compared to every other three row vehicle out there, it would be much more efficient than any other one out there. Now, Ford has the chance to do it the right way with the Transit Connect Wagon minivan. It could be offered two ways, one with only the 1.5/1.6L EB, and another with the hybrid powerplant. There's so much untapped potential in that market. I can't even count the number of times I've heard other parents complaining that their giant minivan doesn't get that much better fuel economy than the SUV they chose it over. Many of them wish there was a hybrid minivan on the market. The customers are ready and waiting, someone just needs to build a product for them.

 

I agree

 

Cmax is too small and lacks AWD. In its base economy car segment, its too expensive.

 

If they had built an Escape Energi instead, it would have done far better. Escape is mainstream for Ford, Cmax is trying to enter a market segment where they are the underdog in the extreme.

 

AWD is irrelevant for the price segment ford was aiming for, It adds weight and reduces economy, which is the point of a hybrid.

 

The concept of a dedicated Hybrid has only been successful for Toyota's prius brand. Ford needs more hybrids. Toyota has 7 Ford has 2, you don't add more specialty hybrids you expand the drivetrain to more models. yes that means hybrid versions of the escape, Edge, focus, transit connect, etc. unfortunately Ford's hybrid system is a one size fit all and is over sized for use in smaller cars, which is where you would see the greatest benefit.

 

 

 

 

The Grand C-Max is not big enough to meet this need:

 

Most have at least a more than occasional need to carry more than 4-5 people

 

 

I disagree.

[MKII]

From here it appeared that Ford's idea of a dedicated Hybrid (C-Max) was brilliant, until their bonehead decision to use a loop hole

and use the Fusion Hybrids EPA was exposed.

 

Ford's dedicated Hybrid vehicle was selling like hot cakes, journalists reviews were full of praise, comparo's against the Prius tin cans

had the C-Max blowing them away.

 

Then the gig was up and Ford's dedicated Hybrid's credibility is now severely damaged.

 

It is no wonder sales have tanked. Consumers are not that stupid.

Edited April 25, 2014 by MKII