Hugh Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 It is all about enjoyment. I doubt many people long for the days of getting up to change the channel (I know I don't) But I do enjoy shifting so your analogy doesn't really make sense. Can you drive drive a stick? If not how are you can you make an intelligent argument. I am not against autos there great for people just looking for transportation. Leave the sticks for the big boys. So by that rationale, if you can't drive manual you're what again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) I think something being missed by some is that the high-tech autos are performance enhancing vs. a manual transmission. It was easy to dismiss autos when that meant a FMX or an AOD, but modern DCTs improve track times. Not that 'Ring times matter in real life, but the market that does consider that kind of thing is probably bigger than the manual-only snobs. The GT350, with its relatively exotic engine, would be a great place to show off a cutting edge transmission as well. Edited November 21, 2014 by jpvbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 It's no longer a performance issue - it's more of the experience and feeling connected. Whatever sports car I get will be a manual but I don't look down on folks who want automatics. I drove manuals for 12 years and loved it - until I got stuck in traffic a few times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) ...Whatever sports car I get will be a manual but I don't look down on folks who want automatics.... Speaking of which, you've brought this up a few times now...Which way are you leaning? Fiesta/Focus ST? 'Stang? Or, are we talking something a bit more..."exotic"? Edited November 21, 2014 by OHV 16V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 And to be clear to my earlier posts, I don't deny for a second that these modern DCTs and the like are even better than the traditional three-pedal setup in regards to performance. Hell, the exotics have pretty much all gone that way due to those trannies being able to actually shift faster than mere mortals themselves in order to take full advantage of their insane, wonderfully hi-powered engines. I, like 72 Mach 1, just prefer the experience and the involvement. And yes, guilty as charged, I do enjoy the exclusivity that comes from being one of the (sadly much fewer nowadays) people who can say that they drive that performance car that only comes with a manual. I love Ford for adhering to this. Please guys, don't ever change this policy. Just my own personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I have no problem with people who would rather drive an auto I guess they feel inadequate or something. Your inability to see the inherent contradiction in these two phrases is troubling, and prevents a meeting of the minds on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Your inability to see the inherent contradiction in these two phrases is troubling, and prevents a meeting of the minds on this subject. The statements are about two different things. I don't have a problem with people driving autos. The latter is trying to understand why everyone the stick argument comes up someone starts with the it's just a different choice and there is no difference in the experience. There is. If someone doesn't enjoy or want that experience that is their choice. Just don't say it is not different. Does that clarify my position,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Why would it having a modern automatic(converter or DCT) prevent this sensation? The modern transmissions are much more accurate at matching engine speed and revolutions than a manual, up or down the gear set. Porsche's PDK, Audi's DCT, BMW's M Sport DCT and some of the modern 8-speeds from BMW, VW, and now GM with the upcoming Z06, are nothing like slushboxes from a decade ago. The characteristics of a FPC engine would fit perfectly with a transmission that has an almost constant connection to the rear wheels, thanks in part to the lightening fast shifts and the low-inertia clutches found in something like a DCT. There's no reason to not offer this at least as an option other than cost(which they will pass on to us anyway), especially when the take rate will much higher for the more expensive automatic. For reference, 60% of all Stingrays sold are with automatics and that one is with the 6-speed "slushbox", and not the 8-speed that GM developed with the Z06, which will be offered in the base Corvette next year. What I find most interesting is that on every Mustang Forum that I frequent, there are several threads about the GT350 specifically, that want an automatic option. Obviously Ford should make no decisions based on mere forum posts(lulz!) but I don't ever remember there being this much talk about an automatic in one of Ford's performance cars. I know slushboxes are worlds ahead today of where they were just a few years ago, but I just don't see it as a good fit in that car. You want to be able to wring it out, hold a gear at a high RPM, or just run it up to 7500 and let off the gas and listen to it sing! I could see a DCT though, as long as you could turn manual mode off. I'm an automatic guy, but I wouldn't have a GT350 with anything but a manual. Edited November 21, 2014 by fordmantpw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. If you are past the age of 20 and can't drink a cup of coffee and drive at the same time, then you probably shouldn't be driving in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Funny, but I have consistently found the polar opposite to be true. That not being able to drive a manual made you less of a man. Whatever that means. And not just on enthusiast websites, either, but in life away from the keyboard. I'm not throwing stones at you, 72Mach1, but some of your manual-driving brethren have messed it up for the rest of you. I don't deny that but to me it is an enjoyment issue. If you don't enjoy it then it is unnecessary. Guys will always try to emasculate other guys to make themselves feel more "MANLY" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I don't deny that but to me it is an enjoyment issue. If you don't enjoy it then it is unnecessary. Guys will always try to emasculate other guys to make themselves feel more "MANLY" Oh yeah? Well my chocolate chip cookies are better than yours! So there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So by that rationale, if you can't drive manual you're what again? A ?. Just kidding Actually it makes you someone that should give it a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Speaking of which, you've brought this up a few times now...Which way are you leaning? Fiesta/Focus ST? 'Stang? Or, are we talking something a bit more..."exotic"? I keep going back and forth between a ragtop mustang, a Porsche 911/Cayman/Boxster (used) or a Jag F-type. The only car that my wife has ever lusted for is a 911. I prefer the 2013+ Boxster or a Cayman. The mustang is a lot cheaper and easier to maintain. I'd love to be able to do track days at AMP and Road Atlanta once or twice a year but I'd also like a nice ragtop cruiser. Maybe I'll just wait til we finish the home improvements and get the daughter out of college and get one of each. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I keep going back and forth between a ragtop mustang, a Porsche 911/Cayman/Boxster (used) or a Jag F-type. The only car that my wife has ever lusted for is a 911. I prefer the 2013+ Boxster or a Cayman. The mustang is a lot cheaper and easier to maintain. I'd love to be able to do track days at AMP and Road Atlanta once or twice a year but I'd also like a nice ragtop cruiser. Maybe I'll just wait til we finish the home improvements and get the daughter out of college and get one of each. Just buy a GT350! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I keep going back and forth between a ragtop mustang, a Porsche 911/Cayman/Boxster (used) or a Jag F-type. The only car that my wife has ever lusted for is a 911. I prefer the 2013+ Boxster or a Cayman. The mustang is a lot cheaper and easier to maintain. I'd love to be able to do track days at AMP and Road Atlanta once or twice a year but I'd also like a nice ragtop cruiser. Maybe I'll just wait til we finish the home improvements and get the daughter out of college and get one of each. There's not a bad choice in that whole bunch, hope you do end up grabbing them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I don't deny that but to me it is an enjoyment issue. If you don't enjoy it then it is unnecessary. Guys will always try to emasculate other guys to make themselves feel more "MANLY" See, I'd learn how to drive a manual if I had the time... and the resources to pick up a beater to practice on. I get the concept but haven't nailed the execution. I mainly want (need?) to learn so that cars like these won't pass by without me knowing how they run. I keep going back and forth between a ragtop mustang, a Porsche 911/Cayman/Boxster (used) or a Jag F-type. The only car that my wife has ever lusted for is a 911. I prefer the 2013+ Boxster or a Cayman. The mustang is a lot cheaper and easier to maintain. I'd love to be able to do track days at AMP and Road Atlanta once or twice a year but I'd also like a nice ragtop cruiser. Maybe I'll just wait til we finish the home improvements and get the daughter out of college and get one of each. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Does that clarify my position,? No it does not. You, on the one hand make remarks like, "leave the sticks for the big boys" and on the other hand say, "I've got nothing against people who drive automatics." This comes straight out of the "I'm sorry you're offended" school of 'not getting it.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Just buy a GT350! Tempting but I have a feeling they'll end up with $30K ADPs and a waiting list. Plus I'd still need a ragtop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Tempting but I have a feeling they'll end up with $30K ADPs and a waiting list. Maybe the first year or so, but I would expect demand to lessen a bit like the GT500. Plus I'd still need a ragtop. {shaking head} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 {shaking head} Haters gonna hate...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) I know slushboxes are worlds ahead today of where they were just a few years ago, but I just don't see it as a good fit in that car. You want to be able to wring it out, hold a gear at a high RPM, or just run it up to 7500 and let off the gas and listen to it sing! I could see a DCT though, as long as you could turn manual mode off. I'm an automatic guy, but I wouldn't have a GT350 with anything but a manual. I care more about performance than I do about Ford curating some "enthusiast" theme with the GT350 or because they believe the GT350 has a lineage that serves as a spiritual successor to the old GT350 by offering it with a manual. In such a case, why offer the Mustang with a fully adjustable, magnetic suspension or satellite navigation or cameras so powerful they can sense your body heat? To me, the GT350 was less about offering a manual gearbox for purity's sake and more about embracing the best technology available at the time at a reasonable price point. I look at the current GT350(and Ford's views in general towards manuals) and don't see the same logic whatsoever. /rant over(not directed at you by the way) To answer you question though, Porsche's PDK, specifically in the GT3, allows you to fully disengage the double clutches by pulling back on both paddles. You get the best of both worlds. Edited November 21, 2014 by GT-Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 No it does not. You, on the one hand make remarks like, "leave the sticks for the big boys" and on the other hand say, "I've got nothing against people who drive automatics." This comes straight out of the "I'm sorry you're offended" school of 'not getting it.' Not trying to offend anyone but I am not going to go out of my way to avoid it either. I get offended at the implication that we are just holding on to some outdated concept and that we should just give up and get with the times and drive an automatic. "Next your going to tell me to give up on my tube TV, reel to reel tape player, manual typewriter and rock I beat my clothes on to wash them." Never!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Not trying to offend anyone but I am not going to go out of my way to avoid it either. I get offended at the implication that we are just holding on to some outdated concept and that we should just give up and get with the times and drive an automatic. "Next your going to tell me to give up on my tube TV, reel to reel tape player, manual typewriter and rock I beat my clothes on to wash them." Never!!!!! I've never saw anyone deride a manual-only driver for their choice. Ever. However, you do see manual drivers lambaste those that prefer automation quite frequently. Car and Driver embraces this and never ceases a chance to remind us how much they prefer manuals by embedding a "save the manuals" sticker into reviews about manual-equipped cars. Edited November 21, 2014 by GT-Keith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Funny, but I have consistently found the polar opposite to be true. That not being able to drive a manual made you less of a man. Whatever that means. And not just on enthusiast websites, either, but in life away from the keyboard. I'm not throwing stones at you, 72Mach1, but some of your manual-driving brethren have messed it up for the rest of you. I noticed this as well. "proper gear box" is the go-to line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Does anyone know: is the GT 350 intended to be limited production (ala Boss) or will it continue year to year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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