Biker16 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Jason J is suggesting a Lincoln variant, not the Edge 7 passenger. Ok, even so there are very high parts commonality under the Skin, between the Fusion/ Mondeo Edge, S-max, Galaxy and MKX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Ok, even so there are very high parts commonality under the Skin, between the Fusion/ Mondeo Edge, S-max, Galaxy and MKX. Understood. But if you figure at best you're looking at 2,500 units/mo, that's a lot of money tied up paying off the tooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Do you think something else could be geared up quicker? There *was* a D4 Aviator being worked on that would be hitting the market now... they couldn't get it to be what they wanted so it was shelved, and I believe it was this situation that birthed D6. That goes along with what the Ford guy said wen I visited an Explorer launch event - he mentioned a Lincoln version back then, so a lunch with a refreshed Explorer made sense....however, with the new focus on the brand, I think it's smarter to delay its launch to have a fantastic product that can be everything you want it to be rather than cobbling something together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 As I said previously, though, Hyundai doesn't have an "Explorer" above the Santa Fe....Santa Fe is as large as they have crossover wise, so it makes sense for them to offer a larger 7 passenger version of it. Ford is not in the same position. Correct, they had the Veracruz once. I forgot they don't have it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Correct, they had the Veracruz once. I forgot they don't have it anymore. I think few knew it ever existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I think few knew it ever existed. Intresting enough, I can't recall off hand when it came out but the current Explorer came out and it faded away. Heck even the Pathfinder went FWD/AWD to compete. Funny how things work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 2 row Explorers? And you can replace the Explorer's current AWD system with a full time version without any major modifications to the platform. Oops - I thought the 3rd row was still optional like the old BOF models. Guess not. So you think Explorer will stay on D4 indefinitely? Or do you think it will move to CD6 but remain transverse/FWD/AWD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It makes less than no sense to do Explorer and Aviator on different platforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It makes less than no sense to do Explorer and Aviator on different platforms. Not to mention the packaging shortcomings of D4, as well as the overall transition away from it. It just makes sense for the next-gen Explorer and Aviator to be on a new platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 My guess is Explorer will go longitude FWD with optional AWD. Aviator will be longitude AWD only. But I'm just guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Not to mention the packaging shortcomings of D4, as well as the overall transition away from it. It just makes sense for the next-gen Explorer and Aviator to be on a new platform. That Explorer has been so successful in this current iteration is incredibly impressive. Heck, I love them abs we'll probably have one soon, but they're definitely compromised due to their D4 base. Remember though, D4 was NEVER the desired platform for this product. Theres some Mulally yarn about coming on board and seeing no real work on updating the Explorer that had last been new for MY2006. Like Taurus, he didn't understand why the name was essentially being left to rot. They needed a new one, and the bespoke platform was out. T6 wasnt an option. D4 was their only choice. They are able to build on Flex's strongpoints but in an exterior design that had far more mass appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) So you think Explorer will stay on D4 indefinitely? Or do you think it will move to CD6 but remain transverse/FWD/AWD? Really couldn't say what CD6 will look like. I tend to agree w/bzcat that Ford, not being absolute driving dynamics snobs, will go the Audi route with longitudinal FWD/AWD, or even FWD/AWD+RWD/AWD. Mainly, I'm taking issue with the notion that the Explorer needs to move 'upmarket'--and that the use of a longitudinal driveline will open up meaningful new markets for the Explorer, or that the limitations of the current AWD setup are more about the platform and less about Ford using the 'family' iAWD system. Edited April 8, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Just do the D3s in Aluminum and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Mainly, I'm taking issue with the notion that the Explorer needs to move 'upmarket' That's straight from somebody who has so far been an excellent source for me. I don't get the impression that they're picking up the current range and sliding everything up in scale. I believe they're planning to trim off the current base model and pricing out the lower level XLTs to a new product below it. Remember that they did *not* expect product mix to skew as high as it did. They were taking a slow-selling nameplate and affixing it to a rebodied version of *3* vehicles that failed to catch on in the marketplace. Think about it. No Edge sells in "base" form with steel wheels and cheapo interior. Why does Explorer? They were caught by surprise with the upper end success of Explorer in gen5. So much so that they added Sport, plusses up Titanium, and most recently added ANOTHER high trim in Platinum that is even more costly than Titanium. Explorer's volume is from well equipped XLT's and higher. They want to take full advantage of the upper end demand the next time around, and that means building a product with the chops to command those prices. Anything on D4 ends up being too compromised. Explorer is successful in spite of itself. They aren't risking that to chance again. Edited April 8, 2015 by PREMiERdrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 If all they're doing is slicing off the fleet models (which makes a certain amount of sense), then why would they try to wedge a whole other vehicle into that niche? I mean, it's not like the Edge is scraping the bottom of the barrel in ATPs---in fact, I would expect that its ATP as a percentage of maximum MSRP is probably in the same ballpark as the Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) It's also important to understand that Edge predates the switch from BOF Explorer to D3 which may be where some overlap now occurs. In any case, will a strong new Edge now take back some of Explorer's sales or will the two become yet another supersegment that Ford rotates around to suit its purposes? It's like Ford developing brands within an brand and out flanking the competition. Edited April 8, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 That's straight from somebody who has so far been an excellent source for me. I don't get the impression that they're picking up the current range and sliding everything up in scale. I believe they're planning to trim off the current base model and pricing out the lower level XLTs to a new product below it. Remember that they did *not* expect product mix to skew as high as it did. They were taking a slow-selling nameplate and affixing it to a rebodied version of *3* vehicles that failed to catch on in the marketplace. Think about it. No Edge sells in "base" form with steel wheels and cheapo interior. Why does Explorer? They were caught by surprise with the upper end success of Explorer in gen5. So much so that they added Sport, plusses up Titanium, and most recently added ANOTHER high trim in Platinum that is even more costly than Titanium. Explorer's volume is from well equipped XLT's and higher. They want to take full advantage of the upper end demand the next time around, and that means building a product with the chops to command those prices. Anything on D4 ends up being too compromised. Explorer is successful in spite of itself. They aren't risking that to chance again. This seems so obvious that I don't understand the opposition. And if you have a longitudinal engine already there's not much savings in doing a FWD only version - better to make it RWD and raise the XLT base price a couple of grand. And now you can even do a SVT version with RWD/AWD and a more powerful engine for $10K more. It's more about platform sharing and raising ATPs plus the chance at increasing volumes slightly with more off-road capability but that's not the primary driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) This seems so obvious that I don't understand the opposition. How does anything that you just wrote address my opposition to the idea that there is space for *another* seven passenger CUV between the Edge and the Explorer? That's what started this whole topic. Someone suggested that this new 'upmarket' Explorer would make room for another 7 passenger CUV---- but when details emerge, this 'upmarket' Explorer is, basically, the same Explorer with a few more higher end trims and few less low end trims (which is basically what Ford already did with the Fusion and the Focus). And I can tell you that stripping out the bottom $2k worth of Explorer trims does not give you enough room for a whole other vehicle. There is not a major gap between the Edge and the Explorer; in fact there is considerable overlap. To the extent I've been able to deduce anything, people are not buying cheap Edges. If you eliminate a tiny portion of Edge/Explorer overlap, you are most certainly not creating room for some putative seven passenger vehicle. And, FWIW, a longitudinal FWD Explorer would probably not cost $1-2k more than a transverse FWD Explorer. Cost to Ford, I would guess, would be under $1k. Edited April 9, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) In all seriousness, Why in the Hell where they surprised by this? The same EXACT situation played itself out with the BOF Explorer...they needed a trim level higher then the Eddie Bauer Edition (the Limited) and well the rest is history...Consumers are conformable with spending $45+ plus on a Ford branded truck/SUV/CUV, Not so much Lincoln for whatever reason. They want to take full advantage of the upper end demand the next time around, and that means building a product with the chops to command those prices. Anything on D4 ends up being too compromised. That makes no sense...then why is the upcoming Continental being built on a CD4 platform, outside of nothing else being ready in the next 18 months? If anything the CD4 is "compromised" as a Flagship car because its FWD. I'm not saying that a CD6 or whatever isn't needed, but its far easier and cheaper just to keep adding new packages to a current car to increase the ADP's if the market is accepting of it. I don't see Toyota having problems with the RX or ES being built on platforms that are decade or so old that are "compromised" because they aren't RWD or whatever else they think people need to be? I don't see how RWD based product can make the Explorer less compromised just because it might offer something that the current customer group that likes the Explorer might not find that appealing to it. Do keep in mind that most Explorers are sold to women, IMO don't give a hoot if it can go off roading and that if that is a strong desire...and if a man is making the primary purchasing decision, they'll winded up in a GC. Edited April 9, 2015 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'm not saying they NEED a 3 row Edge. I'm saying IF they want a 3 row crossover it would be easier and cheaper to bring the Chinese 3 row Edge rather than continue with a bespoke tophat like Flex. I expect Explorer to have higher ground clearance, more aggressive tires and more rugged styling. 3 row Edge would provide a softer alternative. It would only be incremental sales - less than 2K/month - but it would be cheap to add to NA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) That makes no sense...then why is the upcoming Continental being built on a CD4 platform, outside of nothing else being ready in the next 18 months? If anything the CD4 is "compromised" as a Flagship car because its FWD. I'm not sure what platform the Continental will use. Check out the extra distance behind the front wheel to the A pillar. Edited April 9, 2015 by Edstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 you would add a new 3rd row CUV because ford needs more product, and this addition can be done profitably. it not like Adding an low price low profit A-car, this would have an ASP between $32-45k, if it steals volume from the explorer, fine it reduces production pressure and overtime at CAP. if it "steals" volume from the edge, you are Selling a more profitable variants on the same platform with high commonality and produced on the same assembly line, as a whole in increase positive plant utilization and reduces negative plant utilization. I'd be more concerned with the potential market share this product will take from the competition than from my own stablemates, better to have my own products marginalize each other rather than the competition doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'm not saying they NEED a 3 row Edge. I'm saying IF they want a 3 row crossover it would be easier and cheaper to bring the Chinese 3 row Edge rather than continue with a bespoke tophat like Flex. I expect Explorer to have higher ground clearance, more aggressive tires and more rugged styling. 3 row Edge would provide a softer alternative. It would only be incremental sales - less than 2K/month - but it would be cheap to add to NA. The Explorer goes back to being an SUV and a 3 row Edge would be the CUV. Makes sense. The Flex is today's CUV, but the Explorer is currently more CUV than SUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Speaking of higher trim lines, I wonder if an Edge Platinum Version will show up on the new Edge, could package some the Euro only features into it (power folding mirrors, Adaptive headlights, Multi-contour seats, headlight washers, 10" LCD dash etc) and make it a combination of the Limited/Sport like the new Explorer with basically no options. A lot of business owners will not drive a car that has a luxury badge on the front as not to show off to their employees, but will drive a Platinum/LTZ/Denali/Summit as the perception is that it is still a Ford/Chevy/GMC/Jeep. Most people don't know the cost of those vehicles, just see the badge and think it is way cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 The Explorer goes back to being an SUV and a 3 row Edge would be the CUV. Makes sense. The Flex is today's CUV, but the Explorer is currently more CUV than SUV. Related: SUVs are booming like crazy in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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