North American Automotive Production Forecast till 2025

[silvrsvt]

Using the same analogy with the explorer, it is still the best selling car in the US why why the double standard?

 

First off its not a car....

 

2011 Explorer:

 

1,999 cc (122.0 cu in) Ecoboost 2.0 I4 2011

2,253 cc (137.5 cu in) Ecoboost 2.3 I4 2016

3,496 cc (213.3 cu in) Duratec 35 V6 2011

3,497 cc (213.4 cu in) Ecoboost 3.5 TT V6 2013

 

Refreshed 2016 MY

 

Replacement 2018 as a 2019 MY year

 

So being on the market around 8-9 years (2011 Explorer was on sale December 2010) is worse then 15 years? Really?

[Biker16]

First off its not a car....

 

2011 Explorer:

 

1,999 cc (122.0 cu in) Ecoboost 2.0 I4 2011

2,253 cc (137.5 cu in) Ecoboost 2.3 I4 2016

3,496 cc (213.3 cu in) Duratec 35 V6 2011

3,497 cc (213.4 cu in) Ecoboost 3.5 TT V6 2013

 

Refreshed 2016 MY

 

Replacement 2018 as a 2019 MY year

 

So being on the market around 8-9 years (2011 Explorer was on sale December 2010) is worse then 15 years? Really?

 

Ok.

[akirby]

If All new sheet metal, and interiors, count as "just cosmetic changes." you are correct, but you never said platforms.

 

Using the same analogy with the explorer, it is still the best selling car in the US why why the double standard?

 

All new sheet metal and interiors is quite a stretch for Camry. To me those are just cosmetic changes especially since the drivetrains are virtually the same since 2006.

 

Explorer started out as Freestyle in 2005 and had a complete overhaul in 2011 including new engines and transmissions.

 

Nobody is saying that D3/D4 platform isn't old. We're only saying that it's no worse than some of Toyota's platforms (and in some cases a lot more current).

 

Back to Camry and Fusion - Camry has made more frequent cosmetic changes recently, but Fusion has not only upgraded to an entirely different platform but has also added 4 new engines since 2012 (1.5LEB, 1.6LEB, 2.0LEB, 2.7LEB).

 

 

 

You need to pick better examples.

[Biker16]

All new sheet metal and interiors is quite a stretch for Camry. To me those are just cosmetic changes especially since the drivetrains are virtually the same since 2006.

 

Explorer started out as Freestyle in 2005 and had a complete overhaul in 2011 including new engines and transmissions.

 

Nobody is saying that D3/D4 platform isn't old. We're only saying that it's no worse than some of Toyota's platforms (and in some cases a lot more current).

 

Back to Camry and Fusion - Camry has made more frequent cosmetic changes recently, but Fusion has not only upgraded to an entirely different platform but has also added 4 new engines since 2012 (1.5LEB, 1.6LEB, 2.0LEB, 2.7LEB).

 

 

 

You need to pick better examples.

 

 

Listen to your words..,.

 

"All new sheet metal and interiors is quite a stretch for Camry. To me those are just cosmetic changes especially since the drivetrains are virtually the same since 2006."

 

You not Denying anything, yet you Still represent things that are not true. Drivetrains have nothing with you being factually incorrect.

 

All-new Sheet metal,, I.E. No carry over body panels, all new Seats, interior panels, IP, instrument cluster, Etc

 

Now who is moving the goal posts?

 

PR for the 2011 Camry.

 

 

http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+introduces+seventh+generation+camry+for+2012.htm

Interior Design

While featuring nearly the same external dimensions as the previous generation, the 2012 Camry offers a more inviting and spacious interior. A new dashboard design, modified seat locations, redesigned seats and “lean” door, pillar and headliner trim all combine to add both real space and greater perceptual spaciousness while also enhancing outward visibility. Repositioning the driver’s seat and the standard tilt/telescoping steering wheel (tilt has increased 33 percent for greater driver comfort) also aid forward visibility and enhance the driver’s positioning.

The accelerator pedal and front seats were moved forward, and the rear-seat hip point was positioned rearward, increasing the couple distance by 0.6-inch; together with reshaped front seatbacks help increase rear-knee room by 1.8-inch. The redesigned center console and front edge of the rear-seat cushion increase rear middle seat legroom by two inches.

Not as obvious are the many areas where Camry designers reshaped interior trim to increase the feeling of spaciousness, including the A- and B-pillars, headliner over the rear seat and door trim. In most vehicles, space is left between the structure and the trim to yield a “clean” surface. Using a lean-car design approach, the trim more closely follows the structure beneath it. The result is added space that contributes much more to a feeling of comfort than the gains in mere millimeters might suggest.

Three-dimensional construction and contrasting-material textures give the new instrument panel a feeling of depth, while the shapes themselves contribute to a more spacious cabin and improved forward sightlines. The prominently curved center cluster appears to float over the instrument panel, reducing its visual mass. Soft textures used on the upper instrument panel, upper door trim, door armrests and center console armrest contribute to greater comfort in the Camry. Stitching on the instrument panel soft padding and matching stitching-look trim elsewhere helps to create a sense of luxury. Aluminum-color and chrome trim are used judiciously.

The Camry LE and XLE grades feature either ivory or gray seating color; the Camry SE features unique upholstery in black-on-black or black-on-gray. Newly designed front-seat frames, higher seatbacks and longer seat cushions enhance comfort. The height adjustment on the driver’s seat offers nearly a half inch greater range than before (total travel is 2.4 inches). The SE’s sporty front seats provide thicker side bolsters, and the exclusive three-spoke leather-wrapped steering wheel offers paddle-shift control for the six-speed automatic transmission.

For 2012, the Camry offers four seat-covering materials: fabric in the LE and XLE; fabric with SofTex in the SE, standard leather trim on the XLE V6 (optional in the XLE four-cylinder), and Ultrasuede® with leather available for the SE and XLE Hybrid. Heated seats are standard on the XLE V6 and are available for SE, XLE four-cylinder and Hybrid with variable temperature control.

The new Camry provides the added functionality demanded by consumers today, yet keeps its controls straightforward and intuitive to use. Control knobs impart a high-precision feel when used. Special attention was paid to function and comfort with the center console design. Soft kneepads on both sides add comfort for the driver and passenger; the front section offers a 12V accessory connector and an easy-to-access USB/input jack port for connecting iPods and other media devices. A sliding rear console door – rather than the more traditional flip-up design – enables easier access from either front seat. Two steering wheel designs, with integrated audio and Bluetooth® controls, are featured: a four-spoke for LE; a leather-wrapped four-spoke for XLE; and a sporty three-spoke, leather-wrapped wheel for the SE.

All grades now feature a standard 60/40 split folding rear seatback to expand cargo capacity. The seats can be lowered by a remote release from the trunk area. Rear-seat side airbags are standard across the line, and an armrest with cup holders adds comfort and convenience.

 

 

 

 

[akirby]

I'm done arguing about this. Suggest you do the same.

[jpd80]

We need to understand what will be planned for Eurpoe as well as ROW & BRIC markets

[2b2]

fwiw

...Explorer...

...Replacement 2018 as a 2019 MY year...

afaik

Explorer Job1 is Dec,2018 as 2020my

[fuzzymoomoo]

fwiwafaik

Explorer Job1 is Dec,2018 as 2020my

Lolwut?

 

Care to share where you heard that little nugget?

[2b2]

in the thread-title's .Pdf

"EOP for Ford Explorer (U502) has been moved back to December 2018 from September 2018. This

results in a timing shift for the Ford Explorer (U625 having an SOP in January 2019, a facelift for January 2022, and an EOP for December 2025)."

now that I pulled up the quote, guess I was a month early

[silvrsvt]

Lolwut?

 

Care to share where you heard that little nugget?

 

 

in the thread-title's .Pdf

"EOP for Ford Explorer (U502) has been moved back to December 2018 from September 2018. This

results in a timing shift for the Ford Explorer (U625 having an SOP in January 2019, a facelift for January 2022, and an EOP for December 2025)."

now that I pulled up the quote, guess I was a month early

 

I was going to say a 2020 in 2018? I don't think so.

 

The 2011 Explorer started hitting dealerships December 2010 (prob started production in September/October 2010)....so it will be in production roughly 10 years

[akirby]

They could start production in December 2018 but not start public sales until January 2019 and call it a 2020 model. They've done it before or close to it.

[630land]

This is the auto business not "auto entertainment". If a product isn't selling, than fix it. If it is bringing in profits, don't eff with it [too much].

 

Example: "New Coke" anyone?

[silvrsvt]

Going back to this and the Mustang refresh/redesign getting pushed up 2 years...the only thing that makes sense about this is that the Mustang is going to be aligned with another product.

 

Lots of options out there

 

Bronco (most likely it will be based on the T6, but powertrains and other components can be shared along with the Explorer/F-150)

Mustang sedan...roughly the size of the Fusion (maybe a bit larger) that could underpin a Lincoln sedan that is slotted between the MKZ and Continental (thinking something like the Lexus IS sedan/coupe) or even a Ford Thunderbird coupe sedan that could replace the Taurus as Ford's top sedan at a higher MSRP but with smaller production numbers...lets call this the SWB CD6 RWD platform.

[Biker16]

Going back to this and the Mustang refresh/redesign getting pushed up 2 years...the only thing that makes sense about this is that the Mustang is going to be aligned with another product.

 

Lots of options out there

 

Bronco (most likely it will be based on the T6, but powertrains and other components can be shared along with the Explorer/F-150)

Mustang sedan...roughly the size of the Fusion (maybe a bit larger) that could underpin a Lincoln sedan that is slotted between the MKZ and Continental (thinking something like the Lexus IS sedan/coupe) or even a Ford Thunderbird coupe sedan that could replace the Taurus as Ford's top sedan at a higher MSRP but with smaller production numbers...lets call this the SWB CD6 RWD platform.

 

GRWD.

[silvrsvt]

 

GRWD.

CD6

[Biker16]

CD6

GRWD

 

[630land]

"Manual trans station wagons mandated for all!" :P

[Biker16]

"Manual trans station wagons mandated for all!" :P

 

I think you missed the point, I am disappointed that this is all you can add.

 

Going back to this and the Mustang refresh/redesign getting pushed up 2 years...the only thing that makes sense about this is that the Mustang is going to be aligned with another product.

 

Lots of options out there

 

Bronco (most likely it will be based on the T6, but powertrains and other components can be shared along with the Explorer/F-150)

Mustang sedan...roughly the size of the Fusion (maybe a bit larger) that could underpin a Lincoln sedan that is slotted between the MKZ and Continental (thinking something like the Lexus IS sedan/coupe) or even a Ford Thunderbird coupe sedan that could replace the Taurus as Ford's top sedan at a higher MSRP but with smaller production numbers...lets call this the SWB CD6 RWD platform.

 

I think they Scrapped everything, and Started over. Hopefully CD6 becomes a RWD/AWD Archtecture not the more complex FWD/RWD/AWD thing we heard about a year ago.

[akirby]

 

Hopefully CD6 becomes a RWD/AWD Archtecture not the more complex FWD/RWD/AWD thing we heard about a year ago.

 

But weren't you the one saying Ford needed to copy the Europeans with this exact kind of flexible architecture?

[RichardJensen]

And, of course, FWD/AWD/RWD wouldn't be more complex than RWD/AWD

 

A RWD/AWD setup requires running a propshaft from the back of the longitudinal transmission up to the front axle line with a differential integrated into either the transmission housing or the oil pan. This makes it effectively a FWD transaxle if you replace the transfer case with a simple gearset. Essentially, you get the FWD component for free.

 

All you have to do is look at the ZF family of transmissions/transaxles which come in RWD, AWD and FWD variants, with the AWD and FWD variants having very similar packaging.

Edited March 18, 2016 by RichardJensen

[Biker16]

 

But weren't you the one saying Ford needed to copy the Europeans with this exact kind of flexible architecture?

 

Audi has a RWD/AWD/FWD architecture that underpins most Audi's Ford has Lincoln, and Lincoln isn't Audi. There isn't the Premium volume there to make an Audi like architecture.

 

Ford needs a Modular Transverse Architecture and a Modular Longitudinal architecture. RWD and AWD are simple but when you add FWD to it it requires compromises, that are OK for Audi with its' 12 different models using that single platform. but Would be challenge for Ford's lineup of 6-8 products on this proposed platform.

[RichardJensen]

 

RWD and AWD are simple

 

Your post is vague and confusing.

 

You don't explain why "RWD/AWD" is "simple", you just state it as though it's self-evident (it's not when you consider that ZF AWD and FWD transaxles are almost identical from the tailpiece forward, and when you consider that running halfshafts through a combination differential oil pan is not exactly "simple").

 

You also don't make any sense at all with your talk about 'volume' 'premium volume' and 'products'. Quantify what you're talking about.

[RichardJensen]

A proposal would be using Ford's ten-speed transmission as a base.

 

That gets you, for starters, all the F-150 volume, etc.

 

Almost all of the modifications for FWD would be used in every FWD and AWD equipped vehicle built on this platform.

 

What would be distinctive between AWD and FWD would be the termination of the transmission. AWD would have a combination PTU/transfer case and FWD would feature a set of gears that would redirect power back up to the front axle.

 

AWD vehicles on this platform would require a new rear axle, as accounted for in Ford's product planning.

 

Again, all of this has been done before.

 

 

Do similar mods to the 10-speed Ford transmission, and Bob's your uncle.

Edited March 18, 2016 by RichardJensen

[rmc523]

 

Audi has a RWD/AWD/FWD architecture that underpins most Audi's Ford has Lincoln, and Lincoln isn't Audi. There isn't the Premium volume there to make an Audi like architecture.

 

Ford needs a Modular Transverse Architecture and a Modular Longitudinal architecture. RWD and AWD are simple but when you add FWD to it it requires compromises, that are OK for Audi with its' 12 different models using that single platform. but Would be challenge for Ford's lineup of 6-8 products on this proposed platform.

Is the whole point of developing this type of architecture not to be able to have it underpin almost the entire lineup outside of Navigator and perhaps MKC? As well as moving forward it would be able to easily underpin new vehicles including more niche type models....you know, the same way Audi has greatly expanded their lineup over the last few years. So you can't think of it in terms of just the existing 4-5 models, you have to consider the future additional models that can and will go on this same flexible platform - both from Lincoln and Ford.

[Fgts]

Going back to this and the Mustang refresh/redesign getting pushed up 2 years...the only thing that makes sense about this is that the Mustang is going to be aligned with another product.

 

Lots of options out there

 

Bronco (most likely it will be based on the T6, but powertrains and other components can be shared along with the Explorer/F-150)

Mustang sedan...roughly the size of the Fusion (maybe a bit larger) that could underpin a Lincoln sedan that is slotted between the MKZ and Continental (thinking something like the Lexus IS sedan/coupe) or even a Ford Thunderbird coupe sedan that could replace the Taurus as Ford's top sedan at a higher MSRP but with smaller production numbers...lets call this the SWB CD6 RWD platform.

This is exactly what i'm thinking, it would be larger then the Fusion/MKZ.

 

Lincoln finally gets a proper alternative for Caddy and the Germans while still offering the fwd MKZ and Ford gets a new Mustang, sports sedan and PI replacement, probably an export Falcon replacement and Ute as we'll get a new Ranchero also.