Biker16 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Ford hasn't decided or Ford just hasn't told you? There is a difference, you know. From what we've seen rumored (as well as some info in the UAW contract), it appears the Explorer will be replaced for the '20 model year. That's 9 years, which is less than the GM versions, so what's the complaint you have? Oh, and technically, it's D4 and not D3. So the explorer will be around for 9 years, the focus for 7 years, how does that mesh with the industry standard of 5 year refreshes? What is the difference between The Explorer and the Taurus X or Freestyle? was the Explore Really All-new? or should it be considered an Updated Taurus X with more rugged styling? What is the difference between D3 and D4? would 2020 make explorer platform 16 years old? how about D3/D4 roots as Volvo? Edited March 14, 2016 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 So the explorer will be around for 9 years, the focus for 7 years, how does that mesh with the industry standard of 5 year refreshes? What is the difference between The Explorer and the Taurus X or Freestyle? was the Explore Really All-new? or should it be considered an Updated Taurus X with more rugged styling? What is the difference between D3 and D4? would 2020 make explorer platform 16 years old? how about D3/D4 roots as Volvo? Well, the Explorer was just refreshed for '16, matching up exactly with the 'standard' 5 year refresh that you mention. What is the difference between Explorer and the Taurus X/Freestyle? Really? If you have to ask, then you really shouldn't be in this conversation. The D4 is an upgraded, heavier duty version of D3 (from my understanding). In the end, Ford is selling as many Explorers as they can make, at very high ATPs. That's what is important. Not to mention, a replacement is on the way soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Explorer is still selling relatively well and the new platform isn't ready yet so it's really a moot point. Are some of Ford's platforms longer in the tooth than some of their competitors? Sure. Has it hurt their overall sales and profitability? Doesn't appear so. Will it hurt them over the next few years? Nobody knows. What's the point of complaining about this over and over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) There has been a TON of Camo'ed Ecosports running around dearborn the past week, these have the new Escape front end under the camo (LED's under the headlights in the same pattern as seen on the new Escape and Euro Edge) If this means a US version or if this is just for Europe remains TBD.Saturday night there was also a MKX out with front camo, for when they switch to the new Lincoln front end. Edited March 14, 2016 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Was it the current short version or a longer version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 There has been a TON of Camo'ed Ecosports running around dearborn the past week, these have the new Escape front end under the camo (LED's under the headlights in the same pattern as seen on the new Escape and Euro Edge) If this means a US version or if this is just for Europe remains TBD. I'd hope that its the new model since the Ecosport just launched in EU in the past 24 months and got a refresh in 2015 make it aline better with EU tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Well, the Explorer was just refreshed for '16, matching up exactly with the 'standard' 5 year refresh that you mention. What is the difference between Explorer and the Taurus X/Freestyle? Really? If you have to ask, then you really shouldn't be in this conversation. The D4 is an upgraded, heavier duty version of D3 (from my understanding). In the end, Ford is selling as many Explorers as they can make, at very high ATPs. That's what is important. Not to mention, a replacement is on the way soon. GM is selling every Large CUV they can make too. up 11.3% in 2015 Explorer is still selling relatively well and the new platform isn't ready yet so it's really a moot point. Are some of Ford's platforms longer in the tooth than some of their competitors? Sure. Has it hurt their overall sales and profitability? Doesn't appear so. Will it hurt them over the next few years? Nobody knows. What's the point of complaining about this over and over? Because old products don't sell as well as new products in a competitive market. There has been a TON of Camo'ed Ecosports running around dearborn the past week, these have the new Escape front end under the camo (LED's under the headlights in the same pattern as seen on the new Escape and Euro Edge) If this means a US version or if this is just for Europe remains TBD. Saturday night there was also a MKX out with front camo, for when they switch to the new Lincoln front end. Was it the current short version or a longer version? Who ever said there was a long version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Because old products don't sell as well as new products in a competitive market. If that were true then the 2013 Fusion would have outsold Accord and Camry - it did not. There are SO many other factors that are more important than the age of the platform or the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Who ever said there was a long version? Most of us think the current Ecosport is too short for the NA market which is the main reason we don't already have it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 GM is selling every Large CUV they can make too. up 11.3% in 2015 Because old products don't sell as well as new products in a competitive market. Who ever said there was a long version? FFS...your cherry picking arguments again.... Expedition sales are up 16.1% Navigator Sales are down 23%, but that is basically 200 units..not a huge deal ALL OLDER PRODUCTS SELL LESS THEN THEY DO WHEN NEW! The Ecosport isn't competitive as it is for the EU or NA...why wouldn't they make a larger product to fill those markets wants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 If that were true then the 2013 Fusion would have outsold Accord and Camry - it did not. There are SO many other factors that are more important than the age of the platform or the vehicle. or the 2013 fuslion would have outsold the 2012 fusion, oh wait it did. Most of us think the current Ecosport is too short for the NA market which is the main reason we don't already have it here. When did ford say they would make a longer version for the US? When did Ford say that was the reason it isn't being sold and not another reason like no where to build it? FFS...your cherry picking arguments again.... Expedition sales are up 16.1% Navigator Sales are down 23%, but that is basically 200 units..not a huge deal ALL OLDER PRODUCTS SELL LESS THEN THEY DO WHEN NEW! The Ecosport isn't competitive as it is for the EU or NA...why wouldn't they make a larger product to fill those markets wants? I said CUVs not SUVs 2015 2014 Sales % Enclave 62,081 62,300 -0.4% Traverse 119,945 103,943 15.4% Acadia 96,393 83,972 14.8% GM 278,419 250,215 11.3% Explorer 224309 189339 18.5% PIU 24942 20655 20.8% 249251 209994 18.7% Well, the Explorer was just refreshed for '16, matching up exactly with the 'standard' 5 year refresh that you mention. It is standard 5 years between all-new Top hat. and 3 years between Refreshes like the Explorer just had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 The Acadia and Enclave platforms are about to be replaced, Ford still hasn't Decided when D3 will be replaced which is approaching 13 years old. how long with D3 explorer be on the market before its replaced? Facts: The original Ecosport debuted in 2004 as the First subcompact SUV, It invented the segment over 12 years ago. The Ranger: I don't think that a place to put the ranger was an issue, GM didn't make excuses for re-entering the Mid-sized segment why should ford? D4 is being replaced in 2019/2020. And only recently has the subcompact crossover market become relevant in the US. EcoSports to this point would not have been accepted here. Ok, so where would they have built a US-spec Ranger? On the flip side, Ford didn't make excuses for updating/replacing its vans, why should GM?? Where are their new vans? Not a rebadged Nissan thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I'm not answering more questions when you either can't understand or refuse to consider my previous answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Who said it would be cheap? It's all about platform sharing. Easier to build multiple vehicles on the same platform in one plant. To directly answer your Question. Who said it would be cheap? If the Focus is still going to be sold in North America, and Ford adds an Additional C-sized product you can either assume it will be premium product above the Focus or an entry level product below the Focus. With no mention of the fiesta and the known quality of the Chinese Escort, I am assuming that Ford is leaning towards the escort. It's all about platform sharing. Easier to build multiple vehicles on the same platform in one plant. I agree, but If the future is less about platform size and more about their configuration and the plants should be able to accomodate products on those platforms. Why would you force a inferior product into the market because you can't build the superior product in your plants. Your plants should enable great products, not prevent them from coming to market. Also Ford believes there is more profit and sales in utilities than sedans or hatchbacks At what point does this go from focusing on profitable Utilities to neglecting those less profitable sedans and hatchbacks. Fiesta could still be imported if necessary. This is true, but the only thing ford has imported in the last decade is the Transit connect. My comparison is the fact the Buick now imports half of all their products now. GM has no problem importing from China, Europe or Korea to fill an unmet need. Yet Ford doesn't. I am at a loss to understand why, because GM is profitable, why couldn't ford do the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 If the product is inferior from the start, there is absolutely nothing the assembly plant can do to change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 All indications are Ford is adding a utility between Escape and current Ecosport. That would be a shorter Escape (instead of a lengthened Ecosport) and it would not be "cheap". Cheaper than an Escape, yes, but not cheap like Escort. Fiesta and Ecosport can either be dropped or imported. Or it could also stay if there is enough plant capacity to keep it with the C platform vehicles, but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 If the product is inferior from the start, there is absolutely nothing the assembly plant can do to change that. Excuses, excuses........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) #1 Car Maker Toyota is on 6 year cycles, not that they really come out with "all new" anyway. So that is the "standard" and even some are longer. It is wasteful to have to bring out "all new" every 4-5 years for the "purists" These days younger buyers only care about "new apps", and couldn't care less if a platform is 4 years old. Anything that sits high and has AWD option gets them to sign their life away, to "keep up with the neighbors". Add latest iPhone/Droid smart phone connectivity and "voila", sales! Millennials are eager for 'self driving cars', so they only care about software updates and not "driving pleasure, handing in the twisties, and whether a platform is all new". Car guys may not like it, but its reality. Edited March 14, 2016 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 GM is pretty close to Ford with new utilities. But Toyota? Which new utilities have they introduced recently other than RAV4? Toyota is smart and they get maximum return with minimal effort. They're doing very few all new platforms or vehicles. I've been away for a bit so pardon me if I am way out where the next few pages of this topic are. I agree with you about Toyota leveraging there resources but they will continue to invest in their lineup-plus I would also mention the Lexus line. And I was thinking that they are a full line manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Camry and Corolla are basically unchanged for over a decade with just cosmetic changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Camry and Corolla are basically unchanged for over a decade with just cosmetic changes. that's not true. you may believe its true but I have proven this to be false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 that's not true. you may believe its true but I have proven this to be false. citation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 citation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Camry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Camry The Toyota K platform, informally known as the Toyota Camry platform, is a front-wheel drive automobile platform (also adaptable to four-wheel drive) that has underpinned various Toyota and Lexus models from the mid-size category upwards[1] since November 2000, starting with the Highlander (XU20). Applications Toyota Avalon — XX30 (2005–2012),[4][5][6]XX40 (2012–present)[7] Toyota Camry — XV30 (2001–2006),[3][4][5]XV40 (2006–2011),[6]XV50 (2011–present)[8] Toyota Camry Solara — XV30 (2003–2009)[4][5][9] Toyota Highlander — XU20 (2000–2007),[4][5]XU40 (2007–2013),[10]XU50 (2013–present)[11] Toyota Sienna — XL20 (2003–2009),[4][5][12]XL30 (2010–present)[13] Toyota Venza — AV10 (2008–2017)[10][14][15] Lexus ES — XV30 (2001–2006),[4]XV40 (2006–2012),[16]XV60 (2012–present)[17] Lexus RX — XU30 (2003–2008),[4][5]AL10 (2008–2015),[6]AL20 (2015–present)[18][19] The K platform is over 15 years old. The 2.5 and 3.5 engine choices and the hybrid drivetrain are 10 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 The K platform is over 15 years old. The 2.5 and 3.5 engine choices and the hybrid drivetrain are 10 years old. Your Quote said: Camry and Corolla are basically unchanged for over a decade with just cosmetic changes.If All new sheet metal, and interiors, count as "just cosmetic changes." you are correct, but you never said platforms. Using the same analogy with the explorer, it is still the best selling car in the US why why the double standard? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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