Industry Study Finds Affluent Gen-Xers Flocking to 365-Horsepower Ford Explorer Sport

[rmc523]

 

 

The Traverse was actually out in 2008, but the other Lambdas were out in May 2006. There is absolutely no question that Explorer as we know it today exists because of the success of those GM products which is why there is a 4 year gap between Lambda and Explorer and why Ford completely lost the market in the interim. Remember, GM's answer to the fading BOF SUV was Lambda, Ford's was Freestyle. Ford was earlier, but completely wrong and they were far too slow to admit defeat on the BOF Explorer which was the cornerstone of their profit machine for years...and when they finally realized the obvious solution we got the new Explorer and all is forgotten.

There were a few problems with the '06-'10 Explorer. And it being BOF is not necessarily one of them. Rather 1) much like the '07 Expedition, the body barely changed, so it looked like the previous one, and 2) it got poor fuel economy at a time when buyers were encountering increasing fuel prices. Once Ford realized these issues, a D3/4-based Explorer became the only viable alternative at the time.

 

Freestyle when developed was told not to step on Explorer's toes, which resulted in the wagon-like vehicle that nobody wanted. Flex, of course, was an attempt to inject some style into the same recipe, and was based on the (IIRC) well-received Fairlane concept, but hasn't ever been able to break out of that 2-3K/month level.

[630land]

GM's Lambs "looked new", and were pitched as Luxury rides at first, remember the Saturn version? There wasn't an entry level Chevy version for a few years.

 

GM was planning to continue the BOF TrailBlazer family, and had new ones planned, but then something came up to stop them. We all know.

[jpd80]

I like what Ford is doing with the whole Escape-Edge-Explorer interplay, having the guts to do that when a few were decrying that as too many

vehicles and possibly cramping sales. Well, what a master stroke that turned out to be enabling Ford to balance strong Escape sales against

something different in Edge without customers feeling like they went too big and then offering Edge as a downsize from Explorer without

feeling like you're back in an Escape...

 

My hope now is that a lighter Expedition and EL above them will grab another decent chunk od sales and vindicate its decision

to spearhead sales with the 3.5 EB, with a 10AT, you really don't need another engine but I guess the 5.0 and 2.7 EB are there.

If Ford does a great job on interiors and trim packages, I can see Expedition making the moves all over Tahoe and Yukon.

 

and then we have Navigator sitting above all of that - some may not like its styling but I suspect it different enough to really

impact people, it won't be ignored that's for sure. So perhaps that's the plan for Lincoln, make a statement and get those

actual buyers interested and back in the showroom buying.

Edited August 16, 2016 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

 

I said the original. As in 1991 Eddie Bauer.

 

I did this last time this subject came up. The Explorer Platinum cost a few hundred dollars more, adjusted for inflation, than the original MSRP of Eddie Bauer with all the options. Basically, prices for the top end hasn't changed much but obviously the content level is much higher. The real difference is in the middle trim level. Explorer Limited which is actually more similar to Eddie Bauer from previous generations is significantly cheaper now than in 1991 (and probably 2003 as well).

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/1991-ford-explorer-test/

 

 

Eddie Bauer Explorer rings in at $21,566

 

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=21%2C566&year1=1991&year2=2016

 

$21,566 in 2016 dollars=38,104.21

 

http://shop.ford.com/build/explorer/?gnav=header-suvs#/config/Config%5B%7CFord%7CExplorer%7C2017%7C1%7C1.%7C.K8H.....LF.PLT.%5D.

 

2017 Ford Explorer Platinum base price=53,930

[2b2]

That's been an issue, (not a bad one necessarily), is that Ford can lux up a vehicle that would otherwise be a Lincoln product, and they have demonstrated this with Vignale in Europe. Leaves little for the Lincoln to improve other than "different styling, exclusive engines and better customer service" and then you have to ask, is that worth the extra 10-20K cost.

just-imho

turbo-plug-ins and pure BEVs that are virtualAwd would go a good ways towards validating that $10-20k extra...

..."and maybe a wee bit more"

[BORG]

Nevermind that the Explorer Platinum can be had for $53Kish, which I consider to be a total bargain next to the $63K Lincoln MKX I own. Granted I think Lincolns are WAY overpriced next to their Ford counterpart but relatively affordable next to their luxury competition...it's a strange one to sort out sometimes. It would help if Lincoln simply looked as premium and alluring as their competition and I think that's something they still need to figure out, they'll continue to struggle with new customer adoption until they can attract them with something that's hard to ignore.

 

I've actually only seen 1 Explorer Platinum so far on the road, I'm surprised they are so rare considering I live well beyond the target income range for the Sport. I'm considering an Explorer Platinum as my next, it wasn't available at the time I got the MKX.

Edited August 17, 2016 by BORG

[rmc523]

Do you consider the new design language to be more "premium and alluring" compared to the split wing?

Edited August 17, 2016 by rmc523

[BORG]

Do you consider the new design language to be more "premium and alluring" compared to the split wing?

 

 

I think it's better, possibly something to work with in the future. For now it serves its purpose to give people fewer reasons to complain and to evoke other luxury marques like Jag and Audi instead of Oldsmobile and Pontiac. But in terms of forming a unique visual identity, Lincoln simply has a toned down version of something else which is hard to get moved by.

Edited August 17, 2016 by BORG

[jpd80]

Two things happening simultaneously, elevation of the Ford brand while trying to keep Lincoln distinctive and at a higher level.

It must be tough balancing act to have higher trim level Fords knowing that Lincoln buyers will then expect even more from their vehicles.

 

Could Platinum Trim a bit like Euro Vignale spread across the popular Ford lines coexist with their lincoln cousins?

Is it something Ford should pursue and answer the question, can premium Ford coexist with Lincoln?

Edited August 17, 2016 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

 

Is it something Ford should pursue and answer the question, can premium Ford coexist with Lincoln?

 

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be able to. Given the fact that the Platinum trim doesn't make up that big of a percentage of buyers of Ford products...its the sprinkles on the Ford cake with the rich chocolate Lincoln icing on top of it LOL

 

Lincoln should focus on the dealer experience (which might be hard given many are sold at Ford dealers) and other things that typical luxury buyers want. I know for myself, i avoid the dealership as much as possible and do most of my own maintenance work on my vehicles because its easier for me and my cars don't get tied up for hours at a dealership for an oil change or whatnot. A premium Ford would make more sense for that type of customer.

[BORG]

Lincoln is moving farther up market and they are still distinguished by design and dealerships. I think we also have to remember that only a couple Fords are offering more luxurious counterparts than their typical competitors, namely Fusion and Explorer (to a lesser extent). With Fusion it comes down to the demise of Taurus and seeking to replace some of those customers with a posher/powerful Fusion. Explorer is mostly responding to the competitive pressure from the Lambdas at GM which has been available in more premium assortments, but they certainly can't match Ford's effort in terms of power and amenities. So ultimately the push up market for Ford is really just their Trucks and maybe 1 car, it's not that widespread. Ford Brand is still very low on the aspirational totem pole unless you're into Trucks and Mustangs.

Edited August 17, 2016 by BORG

[tbone]

For me, Lincoln needs to do a better job of creating a completely unique identity for itself. They have done a better of creating unique bodies, but most Lincoln motors have the same specifications as their Ford counterparts. It should not be difficult for Ford to give a Lincoln motor a small bump in horsepower, 15HP for example. Although the performance gain is not that significant, it looks good on paper, which would be a selling point. No Lincoln should share any interior parts with a Ford, that cannot be disguised as as a unique Lincoln part. Particularly anything that you touch or is regularly in your line of sight. As I have mentioned before, no Lincoln dealership should share the same space with a Ford dealership. Lincolns should be kept completely separate. Where I live, all the luxury brands have there own standalone buildings and lots, except the Lincoln dealership. I suspect the dealers feel they can't justify it, but in my mind it reduces Lincoln's credibility as a luxury make.

[fuzzymoomoo]

For me, Lincoln needs to do a better job of creating a completely unique identity for itself. They have done a better of creating unique bodies, but most Lincoln motors have the same specifications as their Ford counterparts. It should not be difficult for Ford to give a Lincoln motor a small bump in horsepower, 15HP for example. Although the performance gain is not that significant, it looks good on paper, which would be a selling point. No Lincoln should share any interior parts with a Ford, that cannot be disguised as as a unique Lincoln part. Particularly anything that you touch or is regularly in your line of sight. As I have mentioned before, no Lincoln dealership should share the same space with a Ford dealership. Lincolns should be kept completely separate. Where I live, all the luxury brands have there own standalone buildings and lots, except the Lincoln dealership. I suspect the dealers feel they can't justify it, but in my mind it reduces Lincoln's credibility as a luxury make.

See 3.0 GTDI. Word is there's more to come that will be Lincoln exclusive.

[BORG]

The big draw to Lincoln for me is mostly the interior, the differences between Ford and Lincoln is very significant on the inside. And Ford doesn't offer comfortable power, they only package power in Sport models with stark interiors and firm suspensions. For me that's where the real line is drawn between Ford and Lincoln. As far as exterior design goes, I think Ford and Lincoln are about the same.

[Donaldo]

For me, Lincoln needs to do a better job of creating a completely unique identity for itself. They have done a better of creating unique bodies, but most Lincoln motors have the same specifications as their Ford counterparts. It should not be difficult for Ford to give a Lincoln motor a small bump in horsepower, 15HP for example. Although the performance gain is not that significant, it looks good on paper, which would be a selling point. No Lincoln should share any interior parts with a Ford, that cannot be disguised as as a unique Lincoln part. Particularly anything that you touch or is regularly in your line of sight. As I have mentioned before, no Lincoln dealership should share the same space with a Ford dealership. Lincolns should be kept completely separate. Where I live, all the luxury brands have there own standalone buildings and lots, except the Lincoln dealership. I suspect the dealers feel they can't justify it, but in my mind it reduces Lincoln's credibility as a luxury make.

 

 

This is probably a key, Lincoln is going to be more of a 'specialty' brand than a 'premium' brand. Not many buyers under 50 are going to relate to Lincoln as a premium ride anyway - Cadillac probably has a much stronger brand for that.

 

The 'luxury' brand leaders, BMW and MBZ, have a really wide range of models. BMW has a 'specialty' sub-brand, MINI, while MBZ has smart, AMG, and their commercial vehicles (Sprinter, Metris, etc.).

 

Subaru is another example of a 'specialty' brand that has been doing quite well in recent years, their dealerships usually are relatively small and combined with other brands.

 

I'm sure traditionalists are confused when dealers sell a wide range of $100,000+ cars (not just a single 'halo' model) in the same showroom as $30,000 cars, but this inclusive brand concept seems to be working. Buyers spending $70,000+ on an Expedition or Super Duty probably like that it is a Ford and not a Lincoln.

[jpd80]

So is Lincoln still catering too much for the older +60 years buyer and not enough for younger 30-55 age group?

Is that deliberate so that high series Fords can be positioned to take those customers?

 

Could it be that the real reason behind Lincoln still appearing a little confused with identity and styling

is because Ford is working both sides of the street by elevating its own brand at the same time?

 

This is mostly what I take away from the current vehicle line up, high series Fords are moving to capture

more premium buyers in those younger age groups under the radar while Lincoln takes some flack for

appearing to not move quick enough to capture even more sales...

Edited August 20, 2016 by jpd80

[BORG]

As a frequent FoMoCo consumer I can tell you that whatever Ford is doing, it's still giving me plenty of reasons to choose the Lincoln over the Ford. I don't think the differences are that nebulous at all. And it's important to make sure Ford is responding to its own customers, Lincoln is a separate business and Ford doesn't need to moderate itself for Lincoln's benefit. Still, I think Ford is holding back on some products because of Lincoln, the Edge in particular which seems to be missing a premium model to match the Murano or Jeep Grand Cherokee. But this always seems to be fixed with an MCE. The Explorer was also missing a premium model until the MCE Platinum, same with the Escape and Fusion which gained some new trim levels with their MCE. Some of these tim levels come and go at Ford for inexplicable reasons, always returning with MCEs and disappearing with new launches. This happens with the F-Series as well which always looses a bunch of trim levels in its first year and they slow restore or add new ones as the years progress. So I'm not even sure this is related to Lincoln and is probably a consistent strategy to keep their longish life-cycles fresh.

 

I think this was more of a concern when Ford and Lincoln customers were the same, which should be changing eventually.

 

If it wasn't for China, I still think Ford should have discontinued Lincoln in the US and launched a new luxury brand out of Ford. Vignale in Europe is actually an interesting strategy that would have worked here as well IMO. But Lincoln is worth salvaging for China, but I've grown convinced that their business in the US has a very low ceiling and the potential for significant growth just isn't there. But time and evolution can change that. Ultimately I think Ford needs to take up most of the premium market that Lincoln can't reach so they have to find a way to do that.

Edited August 20, 2016 by BORG

[2b2]

just-me prolley

I dislike seeing umpteen trim levels on anything

otoh

a sales channel doesn't have to be more than a/few well-identified trim(s) == what has been called a "Brand"

 

imho

 

 

This is probably a key, Lincoln is going to be more of a 'specialty' brand than a 'premium' brand. Not many buyers under 50 are going to relate to Lincoln as a premium ride anyway - Cadillac probably has a much stronger brand for that.

 

The 'luxury' brand leaders, BMW and MBZ, have a really wide range of models. BMW has a 'specialty' sub-brand, MINI, while MBZ has smart, AMG, and their commercial vehicles (Sprinter, Metris, etc.).

 

Subaru is another example of a 'specialty' brand that has been doing quite well in recent years, their dealerships usually are relatively small and combined with other brands....

 

:thumb:

some interesting ideas here, Donaldo

Edited August 20, 2016 by 2b2

[jpd80]

As a frequent FoMoCo consumer I can tell you that whatever Ford is doing, it's still giving me plenty of reasons to choose the Lincoln over the Ford.

 

And yet you just said this on the previous page

I'm considering an Explorer Platinum as my next, it wasn't available at the time I got the MKX.

Could that be more to do with what Ford is NOT doing with Lincoln, listening to buyers like you??

 

 

I don't think the differences are that nebulous at all. Some of these trim levels come and go at Ford for inexplicable reasons, always returning with MCEs and disappearing with new launches. This happens with the F-Series as well which always looses a bunch of trim levels in its first year and they slow restore or add new ones as the years progress. So I'm not even sure this is related to Lincoln and is probably a consistent strategy to keep their longish life-cycles fresh.

 

I think this was more of a concern when Ford and Lincoln customers were the same, which should be changing eventually.

Keep in mind that those changes were done against a background of rising gas prices in the mid 2000s and the collapse of the lifestyle

Truck and SUV market. Lots of buyers walked away from tha segment forcing a rapid rethink of what vehicles and trims were needed at the time.

 

when you say Linocln and Ford customers were the same, i get that in the sense of Ford buyers eventually graduating

to highest trim levels and then considering Lincoln as their pinacle vehicle. Times are changing and clearly Ford

has to attract more conquest buyers and not rely on Ford faithful to buy Lincoln just because it's Ford produced..

 

 

If it wasn't for China, I still think Ford should have discontinued Lincoln in the US and launched a new luxury brand out of Ford. Vignale in Europe is actually an interesting strategy that would have worked here as well IMO. But Lincoln is worth salvaging for China, but I've grown convinced that their business in the US has a very low ceiling and the potential for significant growth just isn't there. But time and evolution can change that. Ultimately I think Ford needs to take up most of the premium market that Lincoln can't reach so they have to find a way to do that.

Embracing the Vignale approach with premium Fords would also give Ford a good reason to do even more with Lincoln

actually put pressure on it to do a much better job with styling and differentiation via appearance, interior and performance.

Maybe this is the plan but Ford taking the long way to get there?

[akirby]

Murano and JGC are more premium than Edge? Seriously??

[sullynd]

This happens with the F-Series as well which always looses a bunch of trim levels in its first year and they slow restore or add new ones as the years progress.

Jebus, if you keep this up I just may loose it.

 

"Loosing" is not "losing".

"Looses" is not "loses".

 

Loose

verb

1.

set free; release.

"the hounds have been loosed"

synonyms: free, set free, unloose, turn loose, set loose, let loose, let go, release;

 

Lose

verb

1.

be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something).

"I've lost my appetite"

synonyms: be deprived of, suffer the loss of; no longer have

"he's lost a lot of blood"

2.

become unable to find (something or someone).

"I've lost the car keys"

synonyms: mislay, misplace, be unable to find, lose track of, leave (behind), fail to keep/retain, fail to keep sight of

"I've lost my watch"

[jpd80]

Murano and JGC are more premium than Edge? Seriously??

The way I see it is that with Murano Platinum at $39K, is getting into MKX territory.

JGC actually competes more with Explorer than Edge.

 

Edge is complementary to Explorer in sofar as being a similar price in lower models,

the intention of course is to move higher series buyers into Explorer and make more money.

Edited August 21, 2016 by jpd80

[rmc523]

The way I see it is that with Murano Platinum at $39K, is getting into MKX territory.

JGC actually competes more with Explorer than Edge.

 

Edge is complementary to Explorer in sofar as being a similar price in lower models,

the intention of course is to move higher series buyers into Explorer and make more money.

Edge Sport already starts at $40K. (MKX starts at $38K IIRC) and reaches up to $49K (MKX extending further up closer to $60 or 70K I believe).

 

That said, would it surprise me if they did an Edge Platinum on top of that? No, not at all.

[jpd80]

Yes, there's room for a Sports and an Platinum,,,

 

Murano has a Platinum Hybrid which is another way to go and hybrid Ute is something Ford could do if needed..

[BORG]

 

And yet you just said this on the previous page

Could that be more to do with what Ford is NOT doing with Lincoln, listening to buyers like you??

 

 

Keep in mind that those changes were done against a background of rising gas prices in the mid 2000s and the collapse of the lifestyle

Truck and SUV market. Lots of buyers walked away from tha segment forcing a rapid rethink of what vehicles and trims were needed at the time.

 

when you say Linocln and Ford customers were the same, i get that in the sense of Ford buyers eventually graduating

to highest trim levels and then considering Lincoln as their pinacle vehicle. Times are changing and clearly Ford

has to attract more conquest buyers and not rely on Ford faithful to buy Lincoln just because it's Ford produced..

 

 

Embracing the Vignale approach with premium Fords would also give Ford a good reason to do even more with Lincoln

actually put pressure on it to do a much better job with styling and differentiation via appearance, interior and performance.

Maybe this is the plan but Ford taking the long way to get there?

 

 

But would I still buy an Explorer Platinum if Lincoln had one of its own?

 

I do think Lincoln and Ford are actually getting closer to each other than they have been in recent years, even as Lincoln grows more exclusive. The Fusion Platinum is good example of a product that is really cutting it close to an MKZ, but then you look at all the things it's missing (which the Sport got such as CCD and a V6 EB). And visually I think some Fords and Lincolns are starting to converge again, especially with similar fascia designs. But ultimately I think Ford is holding back, they want to keep those customers that want EVERYTHING combined into a single product to spend more at Lincoln. It's a sneaky strategy because I know exactly what Ford needs to do to convert me to a Ford customer but that's precisely what they don't deliver. I actually prefer the design of the Edge (especially the Sport) over the MKX, but ultimately I prefer the amenities and luxury.

Edited August 21, 2016 by BORG