akirby Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Can the Fiesta and Focus transmission troubles be blamed on squeezing the suppliers too tightly? The transmission's troubles sound as though they are inherent in the basic design. No, it's the dry clutch design that was done to get an extra mpg or so, not supplier issues. The wet clutch version is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Ford is also seriously lacking in good design. I find most new Fords and Lincolns to be either derivative, boring, or just plain ugly. Their latest MCEs have been the worst. I know bad design has been an industry-wide problem, but Ford could really set an example by putting beauty back in automotive design again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Ford is also seriously lacking in good design. I find most new Fords and Lincolns to be either derivative, boring, or just plain ugly. Their latest MCEs have been the worst. I know bad design has been an industry-wide problem, but Ford could really set an example by putting beauty back in automotive design again. For your first post thats pretty darn accurate of whats wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Products nobody wants? You really aren't paying attention to sales figures. he's not really paying attention to anything. He thinks the new Ranger is going to be the same as the Ranger of the 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Ford is also seriously lacking in good design. I find most new Fords and Lincolns to be either derivative, boring, or just plain ugly. Their latest MCEs have been the worst. I know bad design has been an industry-wide problem, but Ford could really set an example by putting beauty back in automotive design again. Let's be honest. Nothing in Ford or Lincoln's lineup is "just plain ugly." Have you seen anything Nissan or Toyota has put out the last decade? THOSE are ugly. Their MCEs have been lacking, but not ugly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 No, it's the dry clutch design that was done to get an extra mpg or so, not supplier issues. The wet clutch version is fine. it can be partly blamed on a timetable that was too tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 How ironic if in a year fields looks like a genius by not dumping cash on product nobody wants like sedans and small cars..can only imagine the finger pointing going on at ford if this new strategy goes down the wrong rabbit hole.....personally id dump cash into suv's and trucks..any small compacts should be left to rot..but hell racing strips on office furniture i guess is a niche market the new guy may be good at developing Sales by brand, January through May, 2017. From Autoline Daily: 1) Ford - 996,000 2) Toyota - 843,000 3) Chevrolet - 798,000 4) Nissan - 609,000 5) Honda - 592,000 6) Jeep - 333,000 These six brands account for 60% of the sales in the U.S. market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Can the Fiesta and Focus transmission troubles be blamed on squeezing the suppliers too tightly? The transmission's troubles sound as though they are inherent in the basic design. All at the feet of Ford Europe home room development team, pretending that there were simply no issues in extended reliability trials of this gearbox does not gel with the widespread early and continuing troubles. This was a serious miscalculation on Ford's part that took years to put right and still hasn't been in Nth America. To do this to Focus and its dominant automatic sales demographic in North America is beyond belief it would have been better to have just used the 6F and reworked it like the Mazda SkyActiv transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 For your first post thats pretty darn accurate of whats wrong... Design is subjective. I personally find most of the Ford designs to be attractive with the exception of the Lincoln MKT. The problem with the design of some of the older models is they were not evolved during the last MCE and basically look like the previous version. Most people won't get excited about buying something and less they look different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 All at the feet of Ford Europe home room development team, pretending that there were simply no issues in extended reliability trials of this gearbox does not gel with the widespread early and continuing troubles. This was a serious miscalculation on Ford's part that took years to put right and still hasn't been in Nth America. To do this to Focus and its dominant automatic sales demographic in North America is beyond belief it would have been better to have just used the 6F and reworked it like the Mazda SkyActiv transmission. The old pinto habits have never been fully erased from the culture..the funny part is ford decides its just cheaper to dump that transmission junk on the market and fix em when needed...its no wonder no manual in the focus..ford too busy dumpin that trash transmission on the consumer..not cool ford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 One thing is for sure, not much can be done this year and Ford will have to trade on the freshness of the trucks and new Expedition/Navigator. The other vehicles will have to keep treading water this year. Cosmetic freshen of Flex and MKT faces wouldn't hurt the long game ....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) The old pinto habits have never been fully erased from the culture..the funny part is ford decides its just cheaper to dump that transmission junk on the market and fix em when needed...its no wonder no manual in the focus..ford too busy dumpin that trash transmission on the consumer..not cool for There's still around 11,000 people a month buying new ones..... All of the "fixes" Ford has made simply delay the inevitable symptoms the hope is that those buyers will be able to get through warranty and sell those vehicles off in about three years. and then it becomes the used buyers' problems.......and there goes residual value.. Just out of interest, the advertised fuel economy for the 2.0 Powershift Focus is 30 / 37mpg without SFE. In comparison, the 2013 Fusion fitted with 2.5 and 6-speed auto gets 26 / 33mpg A good case could be made that a 2.0 Auto would get close to those official figures... Edited June 19, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 There's still around 11,000 people a month buying new ones..... All of the "fixes" Ford has made simply delay the inevitable symptoms the hope is that those buyers will be able to get through warranty and sell those vehicles off in about three years. and then it becomes the used buyers' problems.......and there goes residual value.. Just out of interest, the advertised fuel economy for the 2.0 Powershift Focus is 30 / 37mpg without SFE. In comparison, the 2013 Fusion fitted with 2.5 and 6-speed auto gets 26 / 33mpg A good case could be made that a 2.0 Auto would get close to those official figures... Something needs to be done about that transmission ASAP. They need to bite the bullet now because I think that transmission is damaging Ford's reputation in the eyes of entry level buyers, who will certainly be reluctant to consider Ford's other products in the future. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Ford will not do anything now with around 12 months to run, they will hunker down and bundle changes on the next Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I understand but how difficult would it have been to add the euro transmission to it at this point? They are rolling down the road in Europe right now aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 I understand but how difficult would it have been to add the euro transmission to it at this point? They are rolling down the road in Europe right now aren't they? Capacity issues in North America, not to mention recertification of the power train for MPGs. I think the thing that hurt them is they where trying to protect the profit bottom line of the product, thus why there was no major changes in power train that made up a significant portion of them. Might be also a case of well its cheaper/easier just to fix them too till they next gen comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 that's exactly the kind of shenanigans I hope Mr. Hatchet cuts-out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Let's be honest. Nothing in Ford or Lincoln's lineup is "just plain ugly." Have you seen anything Nissan or Toyota has put out the last decade? THOSE are ugly. Their MCEs have been lacking, but not ugly. I agree that Ford's styling is not as absurd as Nissan and Toyota's, but it's not something to be proud of either. And yes, they do have some vehicles that are just plain ugly. Like the Navigator in your sig.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I agree that Ford's styling is not as absurd as Nissan and Toyota's, but it's not something to be proud of either. And yes, they do have some vehicles that are just plain ugly. Like the Navigator in your sig.... So you think the new Navigator in RMC's sig is ugly? Sorry but you just lost me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 The only thing about that that is ugly is the wheels. Not a fan of them on the Continental either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) So you think the new Navigator in RMC's sig is ugly? Sorry but you just lost me. Absolutely. It's a lazy, copy/cut/paste design. Models within in a brand should look familial without being homogenous. They could have played with different headlight/taillight designs. A blacked-out A-pillar would have looked a lot better. If you're gonna copy Range Rover, at least do it right. All of those wheel designs it's offered with don't even compliment the body; they only exist because they're trendy. FYI, I would not have dumped the last design language to begin with. I can't count how many decent design languages they've gone through over the years because they never gave them a chance. That's pretty much the reason why Lincoln has never developed a distinctive visual identity. When something underperformed at Ford, they always were quick to blame design (even if it's not responsible). That's how we ended up with the Oval Taurus; they thought a radical design would set showrooms on fire. Edited June 20, 2017 by The Handler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) While the wheels don't match the styling of the Navigator, the rest of the Navigator looks fresh and has had a lot of positive press and feedback form potential buyers. Design language is becoming very disposable these days, Lincoln has struggled with the large flowing grilles for the past ten years now and I guess that they are still searching for that corridor between bland styles that most actual buyers are OK with. I believe that the dark horse will be Expedition, I love the job Ford has done there and it could be the Navigator and Expedition are different enough to attract both groups for respective reasons of styling preference. Speaking of Range Rover, a 4.4 V8 diesel option wouldn't go astray with either of the big two SUVs ,that would also offer a potential export opportunity to many countries. Edited June 20, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 Absolutely. It's a lazy, copy/cut/paste design. Models within in a brand should look familial without being homogenous. They could have played with different headlight/taillight designs. A blacked-out A-pillar would have looked a lot better. If you're gonna copy Range Rover, at least do it right. All of those wheel designs it's offered with don't even compliment the body; they only exist because they're trendy. Or you could go the caddy route and keep repeating nearly the same design langauge on every product for the past 15 years or so. The reason Lincoln has had shitty go of it design wise is because they've only really given a shit about it for the past 5-7 years and it takes at least 4-5 years for a MCE or new product to show up to have that design language. I think they finally hit something that resonated with people with the Conti styling. Its been several swings and miss since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Styling is always subjective and the current Navi styling wasn't setting any sales records especially compared to Escalade. I predict the new one will increase sales at least 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Can the Fiesta and Focus transmission troubles be blamed on squeezing the suppliers too tightly? The transmission's troubles sound as though they are inherent in the basic design. All at the feet of Ford Europe home room development team, pretending that there were simply no issues in extended reliability trials of this gearbox does not gel with the widespread early and continuing troubles. FoE doesn't give a darn about automatic transmission. The DCT was available and it was claimed to improve mileage so they choose it. Unfortunately, it was just not "ready for prime time". I heard some scuttlebutt before it was launched. It sounds like a second "cover up" by transmission engineering (remember the CVT) claiming everything was good and pushing it into production. FoE has many other things that they can be "blamed" for, such as the lack of a Chateau/Titanium trim package for the Transit. The interior, especially the seats plain SUCK ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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