silvrsvt Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, mackinaw said: Just heard on Autoline Daily today that, in the last quarter, BMW 3-series sales fell 64%. Maybe not all due to the Model 3, but I betcha BMW is wondering what the hell is going on. Did X3 or X2 sales offset the losses though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, mackinaw said: What dealer? Szott Ford in Holly. My first 2 leases were through Taylor Ford but I found Szott has way better deals. Once my Fusion is up in 2021 I'm going back to Szott for a Ranger, or maybe a Bronco if I decide not having an open bed isn't too big of a detriment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Did X3 or X2 sales offset the losses though? I don't know, they didn't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Did X3 or X2 sales offset the losses though? Here is the breakdown. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191101005588/en/BMW-North-America-Reports-October-2019-U.S. The only 64% hit I see is the 6-series YoY. HRG Edited November 13, 2019 by HotRunrGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, akirby said: Notice I said that's why they buy them. Maybe not why they keep them........ I do think for most buyers it will be a positive to have so many dealers. Having a local dealer is a major plus. Even if I was going to buy a Tesla, I couldn't easily do so, they aren't sold in Michigan. If I do decide to buy a Mach E someday, I'm only a 20 minute drive to my local Ford dealer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Szott Ford in Holly. My first 2 leases were through Taylor Ford but I found Szott has way better deals. Once my Fusion is up in 2021 I'm going back to Szott for a Ranger, or maybe a Bronco if I decide not having an open bed isn't too big of a detriment. youd be A plan anyways no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, mackinaw said: Having a local dealer is a major plus. Even if I was going to buy a Tesla, I couldn't easily do so, they aren't sold in Michigan. If I do decide to buy a Mach E someday, I'm only a 20 minute drive to my local Ford dealer. like I said...if Tesla had franchised they wouldn't have those issues....so I don't feel sorry at all for anyone that thought Teslas way of buying was superior to the "dealer" model waiting weeks for their car to be serviced, let alone months for parts on backorder... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Deanh said: youd be A plan anyways no? Well yeah but they had special offers they chose to run on their own, as I'm sure your dealer has done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Deanh said: like I said...if Tesla had franchised they wouldn't have those issues....so I don't feel sorry at all for anyone that thought Teslas way of buying was superior to the "dealer" model waiting weeks for their car to be serviced, let alone months for parts on backorder... And that’s where Ford brings the traditional dealerships and security for buyers, all the things Tesla can’t or won’t provide. its also why Tesla is terminally flawed and cannot grow like musk and supporters expect, Ford and GM will just walk in and take market share when it suits them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, jpd80 said: And that’s where Ford brings the traditional dealerships and security for buyers, all the things Tesla can’t or won’t provide. its also why Tesla is terminally flawed and cannot grow like musk and supporters expect, Ford and GM will just walk in and take market share when it suits them I had a buddy that worked for a high end body shop...they had a contract with Tesla which was pretty lucrative...because Elon was trying to achieve the numbers he persisted to blurt out, the bodyshop was working full time repairing, re aligning damaged and misaligned body panels....all under a gag order no less...he no longer works there...but some of the stories were hilarious... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) There was a story recently about Musk sending one of his short sell detractors a couple of pairs of short shorts to remind him of Tesla. story goes, critic thanked Musk and said that they did Indeed remind him of Tesla because came with manufacturing defects. Edited November 14, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanglus Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Deanh said: like I said...if Tesla had franchised they wouldn't have those issues....so I don't feel sorry at all for anyone that thought Teslas way of buying was superior to the "dealer" model waiting weeks for their car to be serviced, let alone months for parts on backorder... ...been waiting 3 months on a windshield for my Fiat 500e that was going to be a trade in on my M3P. Last due date promised was Dec 5th. I have over $5k sitting around doing nothing but waiting on an acoustic glass windshield. So, parts and repairs issues happen in every brand. Ask anyone with a Fiesta/Focus DCT issue about it. The dealer model doesn’t guarantee a better experience. Edited November 14, 2019 by novanglus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, novanglus said: ...been waiting 3 months on a windshield for my Fiat 500e that was going to be a trade in on my M3P. Last due date promised was Dec 5th. I have over $5k sitting around doing nothing but waiting on an acoustic glass windshield. So, parts and repairs issues happen in every brand. Ask anyone with a Fiesta/Focus DCT issue about it. The dealer model doesn’t guarantee a better experience. The best you can hope for is nothing going wrong with your Tesla, if it does you could be severely screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: The best you can hope for is nothing going wrong with your Tesla, if it does you could be severely screwed. The difference is that you don't have a dealer to screw you in person... The dealerships are a double-edged sword. They can get stuff fixed, but they are also responsible for a lot of Ford's black eyes, and Ford certainly isn't unique in that--there's a reason even fans of manufacturers call them "stealerships." I know if it hadn't been for my local dealership, I would've sworn off Ford dealerships entirely because every time I dealt (or tried to deal) with any other Ford dealer, I had a really bad experience. (For the record, that's one good dealership out of six, which is an abysmal record.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) Officially the Mustang Mach E! https://twitter.com/i/events/1193834447818219521 Edited November 14, 2019 by silvrsvt 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I just saw it in OldPerson’sBook too. So it is officially a Mustang. A 4 door, electric Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Sorry Ford...........but no, just no. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said: Sorry Ford...........but no, just no. Meh its not like the 2 door Mustang is going anywhere-if anything the Mustang needs this to survive long term. So since this technically a Mustang, wouldn't it make it a derivative, thus be built at Flat Rock? I know Cuautitlan is supposed to get it, but you'd think the Mach E would be a better fit at Flat Rock considering everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I appreciate the "real" Mustang isn't going anywhere. At least, not in the near future. . But Mustang has always been pony car. It invented a new segment in the market for goodness sake. A sporty 2+2 with a long hood and a short deck. Make a full EV version of that, just like the Lithium Mustang seen at SEMA. That's still 100% a Mustang in my book. What Mustang has never been is a 5 door "utility" vehicle. I'm sorry, but calling it Mustang is nothing but cynical marketing. This thing was never intended to be a Mustang until Jim Hackett saw a bland styling proposal and ordered a re-style. It was only at that point that someone had the idea of being "inspired" by Mustang. 55 years and 10 million sales. More enthusiast clubs than any other car. Loved and respected around the globe. I live and breathe Mustangs. I head up our local club branch. I administer several forums and Facebook pages. Mustang enthusiasts are passionate like no other. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out but for me, this is a very dark day in Mustang's history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Meh its not like the 2 door Mustang is going anywhere-if anything the Mustang needs this to survive long term. So since this technically a Mustang, wouldn't it make it a derivative, thus be built at Flat Rock? I know Cuautitlan is supposed to get it, but you'd think the Mach E would be a better fit at Flat Rock considering everything. It’s a different platform, they want it at lower cost Cuautitlan and I think the refurbishment has already begun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said: 55 years and 10 million sales. More enthusiast clubs than any other car. Loved and respected around the globe. I live and breathe Mustangs. I head up our local club branch. I administer several forums and Facebook pages. Mustang enthusiasts are passionate like no other. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out but for me, this is a very dark day in Mustang's history. Meh-I've owned two of them and I welcome the change-some times change is needed to survive. The Mustang II was universally derided for what it was, but it was key in keeping the Mustang name alive back 40+ years ago. The unfortunate thing is that the way the automotive landscape is going, keeping the current Mustang from evolving is going to wind up killing it. If anything this is going to open up the Mustang to even more people-there is finally going to be a "practical" Mustang with the performance to back it up. I fully expect a shit show from knuckledraggers/luddites that can't accept change in their lives 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I’m sure this is gonna stir up emotions but at least everyone will be talking about Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, jpd80 said: It’s a different platform, they want it at lower cost Cuautitlan and I think the refurbishment has already begun. Right, but thats what I'm assuming also, but I was just wondering if the contract language was just a colorful way of hiding the obvious. The thing I don't get about Cuautitlan is that it seems like its going to be shut down for a long time...it make no sense to be down that long. The Mach E won't be here til this time next year and the Baby Bronco around the same time-which is rumored now to be at Hermosillo, which would line up with Fusion/MKZ end of prodution. I don't see why Cuautitlan would need to be closed for almost 6-10 months (assuming Summer start of the Mach E)-Hell if my memory serves me right, it only took a few months to retool Edison from a fwd Escort to the Ranger back 30 years ago and MAP from the Focus to the Ranger was only 6 months or so. Cauautitlan already is tooled up for FWD products and from what I've seen of BEV production at the Tesla plant, there isn't that much difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: I fully expect a shit show from knuckledraggers/luddites that can't accept change in their lives It's a shame you have to revert to name calling when people have a differing view to yourself. Personally, I'd rather see Mustang die than be turned into something completely different. But that's just my view. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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