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blwnsmoke

Fusion styled crossover?

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50 minutes ago, akirby said:


which is also C2 based.

 

Yes. I’m referring to the “Fusion Active Width” vs “C2 wide chassis” bzcat mentioned. 

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8 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

 

I don’t think there’s much chance it will be priced between Focus and Escape. Ford is all in on premium pricing. I’m betting it will be priced just less than Edge, but not by much. 

I was talking about the cost base being a lot less to Ford not retail price...

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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.

 

8 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

 

I would think a Fusion “replacement” would be on the same chassis as the NG Edge. The current Fusion is just 1 inch narrower than the Edge. 

Think Track width

Fusion Fr/R..........62.7"/62,4" (CD4)

Edge Fr/R.............64.8"/64.7" (CD4)

Escape Fr/R.........62.4 "/61.8 "  (2020) (C2)

Focus  Fr/R...........61.88"/61.65"  (New Focus) (C2)

 

So Escape and Fusion are pretty close, Focus is a touch narrower and Edge is the widest.

Fusion Active is here late next year, Next Gen Edge is 2023.

Edited by jpd80

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Fusion Active is here late next year, Next Gen Edge is 2023.

 

You think its going to be that quick? I'm thinking Spring/Summer 2021 at the earliest

 

Far too much going on next year with the Mach E, Baby Bronco, Bronco, F-150 and who know what else

 

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10 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

You think its going to be that quick? I'm thinking Spring/Summer 2021 at the earliest

 

Far too much going on next year with the Mach E, Baby Bronco, Bronco, F-150 and who know what else

 

Maybe your timetable is  right.

As mentioned earlier, MY2020 is the last for Fusion and even with say, 50K build ahead, that's like six months.

So they'll take down Fusion about June next year to restructure the plant  and by Christmas they will be out of stock.

Do they keep building at Hermosillo next to Transit connect and Pick up and Baby Bronco or move her to Oakville?

Edited by jpd80

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Do they keep building at Hermosillo next to Transit connect and Pick up and Baby Bronco or move her to Oakville?

 

Or does it go to Cuautitlán Assembly?

 

Outside of the Mach E, that plant and Oakville are an enigma with new products-I guess we will hear more about product once the UAW agreement is done with Ford. 

 

Chicago: Explorer/Aviator

Michigan: Bronco Ranger

Dearborn: F-150

Kansas City: F-150/Transit 

Flat Rock: Mustang/Continental/Mid sized BEVs

Hermosillo: Transit Connect/Small Pickup

Cuautitlán: Mach E/Baby Bronco or Fusion CUV?

Kentucky: Super Duty/Navigator/Expedition

Louisville: Escape/Corsair/Baby Bronco?

Oakville: Edge/Nautilus

Ohio: E-series and HD  

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34 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Or does it go to Cuautitlán Assembly?

 

Outside of the Mach E, that plant and Oakville are an enigma with new products-I guess we will hear more about product once the UAW agreement is done with Ford. 

 

Chicago: Explorer/Aviator

Michigan: Bronco Ranger

Dearborn: F-150

Kansas City: F-150/Transit 

Flat Rock: Mustang/Continental/Mid sized BEVs

Hermosillo: Transit Connect/Small Pickup

Cuautitlán: Mach E/Baby Bronco or Fusion CUV?

Kentucky: Super Duty/Navigator/Expedition

Louisville: Escape/Corsair/Baby Bronco?

Oakville: Edge/Nautilus

Ohio: E-series and HD  

Remember that Ford will probably  re-use a lot of the Fiesta gear there in body shop, paint as well as final trim 

.

I don't know about the products at Hermosillo, TC is not a big seller, compact truck is interesting but Baby

Bronco could be a production headache depending on how high Ford prices it but it's not going to sell in

the same volume as Escape, so lets say half...count it up and Hermosillo volume looks sketchy...

 

Edited by jpd80

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10 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Baby Bronco could be a production headache depending on how high Ford prices it but it's not going to sell in the same volume as Escape, so lets say half...count it up and Hermosillo volume looks sketchy...

 


From the sounds of it Ford is seriously underestimating the demand for the Baby Bronco.  

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Or does it go to Cuautitlán Assembly?

 

Outside of the Mach E, that plant and Oakville are an enigma with new products-I guess we will hear more about product once the UAW agreement is done with Ford. 

 

Chicago: Explorer/Aviator

Michigan: Bronco Ranger

Dearborn: F-150

Kansas City: F-150/Transit 

Flat Rock: Mustang/Continental/Mid sized BEVs

Hermosillo: Transit Connect/Small Pickup

Cuautitlán: Mach E/Baby Bronco or Fusion CUV?

Kentucky: Super Duty/Navigator/Expedition

Louisville: Escape/Corsair/Baby Bronco?

Oakville: Edge/Nautilus

Ohio: E-series and HD  

 

Hermosillo also gets the small 7-seat crossover to complement the Escape. Mexican production of Transit Connect and the small pickup will also allow sales into Brazil and Argentina.

 

Cuautitlan definitely gets the Baby Bronco for Ford intends to sell it throughout Latin America. They would not be able to do that from Louisville.

 

Fusion wagon reads Oakville for it will be the only plant set up for the larger version of C2.

 

PS: Ohio makes the Super Duty as well.

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9 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


From the sounds of it Ford is seriously underestimating the demand for the Baby Bronco.  

 

Well its competing with the Escape for sales, so I'm sure there is going to be some give from Escape sales going to the Baby Bronco

 

I saw an 2020 Escape Ti this morning and its incredibly bland looking

IMG_4119.thumb.jpg.3e42b907983fd26e3068f3a054edf5ba.jpg

 

Edited by silvrsvt

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Well its competing with the Escape for sales, so I'm sure there is going to be some give from Escape sales going to the Baby Bronco

 

I saw an 2020 Escape Ti this morning and its incredibly bland looking

 

t6EuevV1bvGK7I8szfMMcklqOSU_PiPPBSgLlj7xjxnc3tL1JYfC9tCMNaCE1jOrHF9Hvbw_gApH34HVwpnllv24F7CTyRTf4kOiBODugvKQHkhn_x94XXrINaejQ-MVYd4TPFXBWTm2dKQsAJ_YW6eicJ6RQHo2ijeUB6aFSgs3YDqp_IMuWTHjPOrzzRTVpCrlE2ig6_xlLJvUejZBmJUpn4cLtsAqr8b51w_zh_oO7h9mrm7_uiy8hC12pV72lANFxIM7nmkAHm244rKM5pAcqw9Oaq5qve65bJx0SV99_TceOSmP-hEqSc1JLg3J_fCvqAxG5gEEpOWOafHctb8XycU4dlaAsliZIw8z1xAxdRkvhq2BPGiY_dCrpi1wk8so5m24YfAkymW7Ivq_wWGGGdnE5IB-He6Ye8eGIfF2JJE6iaGlUYnf-uJmhLd3-sns9jXH3ShWdCpOpMQ1FIdh0KRa8AJt_JJzayH7F2I35_EXg0WiyxFY1pG9QhdMHbm4tHSaWX-jQxDkb_okKiZ2DyB6V6to6irekp4wUwDemu8aEEGC7qcOkXQ5POn2VbUgq2BT86KbkP05OPjpPXXwptYWsM8s3ydBPeWbB8AY_-2IYgWXxLs1w4ruTlSUonW2UccntgwQk-TLHhb1UhhUpDwX5Fu5SOB5f42rSjVZdU7YCwgQEtI=w1519-h1139-no

 

Your photo didn't work.

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7 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


From the sounds of it Ford is seriously underestimating the demand for the Baby Bronco.  

The heads up is that Ford will have the price about $6K higher than Escapes, so that sounds like Edge pricing.

Ford is now in this charge more, make and sell less mentality for greater returns with fewer resources corporate stick.

So there could be enough production room to bundle up a whole lot of C2 products at one plant, I just don't see American

managers getting their heads around making so many models on just in time.

 

There is also a catch to Mexico producing and sending vehicles to Brazil and Argentina, those two countries

actively protect their own markets and  prevent Mexico from dumping lots of vehicles in their market

Edited by jpd80

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6 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The heads up is that Ford will have the price about $6K higher than Escapes, so that sounds like Edge pricing.

Ford is now in this charge more, make and sell less mentality for greater returns with fewer resources corporate stick.

So there could be enough production room to bundle up a whole lot of C2 products at one plant, I just don't see American

managers getting their heads around making so many models on just in time.

 

There is also a catch to Mexico producing and sending vehicles to Brazil and Argentina, those two countries

actively protect their own markets and  prevent Mexico from dumping lots of vehicles in their market

 

Yes, there are limits. However, it is still cheaper and more available to ship from Mexico to Brazil/Argentina than from the US.

 

The only US made vehicle Ford sells in Brazil is the Mustang. And that is because people will buy it no matter the price down there. 

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1 hour ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Yes, there are limits. However, it is still cheaper and more available to ship from Mexico to Brazil/Argentina than from the US.

 

The only US made vehicle Ford sells in Brazil is the Mustang. And that is because people will buy it no matter the price down there. 

That's not in dispute, the key point is that there are limits for vehicles exported from Mexico to Sth America,

it's also why Fiesta production at Cuautitlan never got above 7K/mth  one shift.

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8 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

there are limits for vehicles exported from Mexico to Sth America

If I remember correctly, the caps are gone and there are no more limits. Due to economical situation, though,  I dont think any maker is exporting large numbers of Mexican cars to Brazil and/or Argentina.

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1 hour ago, ausrutherford said:

The only US made vehicle Ford sells in Brazil is the Mustang. And that is because people will buy it no matter the price down there. 

Canadian Edges (ST only, now) are also sold here but sales are depressingly low (veeery expensive)

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10 minutes ago, passis said:

If I remember correctly, the caps are gone and there are no more limits. Due to economical situation, though,  I dont think any maker is exporting large numbers of Mexican cars to Brazil and/or Argentina.

The whole thing came about due to an unequal balance of trade between Mexico and Brazil Argentina,

the situation has changed but I think the acid test is still balance of trade, so maybe there's a "truce"?

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24 minutes ago, passis said:

Canadian Edges (ST only, now) are also sold here but sales are depressingly low (veeery expensive)

 

True. I was referencing US-built vehicles specifically.

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2 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

True. I was referencing US-built vehicles specifically.

Sure. It does however emphasize your point of having Mexico-built vehicles if South America market is to be contemplated. Otherwise, prices are just not competitve.

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Instead of wondering about where this is going. I have more questions about Valencia.

 

Its losing the C-Max, S-Max, and Galaxy and won't have Transit Connect's North American production volume as well.

 

Valencia will only have the Kuga, Mondeo, and Transit Connect. Now maybe they will be able to expand Transit Connect sales in Europe. Maybe add the 7-seat crossover to complement the Kuga. 

 

One wonders...

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19 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The heads up is that Ford will have the price about $6K higher than Escapes, so that sounds like Edge pricing.

Ford is now in this charge more, make and sell less mentality for greater returns with fewer resources corporate stick.

So there could be enough production room to bundle up a whole lot of C2 products at one plant, I just don't see American

managers getting their heads around making so many models on just in time.

 

There is also a catch to Mexico producing and sending vehicles to Brazil and Argentina, those two countries

actively protect their own markets and  prevent Mexico from dumping lots of vehicles in their market


this is my biggest complaint about the two vehicle strategy. Now, the vehicle the escape should have been all along is now the “premium” vehicle that I’ll have to pay more for. 6k more seems a bit ridiculous too. It better come standard with 4wd and the 2.0 ecoboost and maybe a few other things to justify that kind of price increase.

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I can't remember if the CX430 comes standard with the 2.0L EB, but I know AWD is standard.  I seem to remember that the 2.0L EB was standard.  But my memory is a little jumbled with the configurations for the Pickup/SUV combo which gets more entry-level specs with a 1.5L and FWD standard.   There is a Hybrid version.  The Hybrid on the Bronco was postponed indefinitely...but Ranger is going 2.7EB Hybrid by 2023 with the new model so I suspect a later Bronco will get an update for Hybrid. 

 

My ultimate impression is that the Bronco Scout is a more premium C-Segment utility unlike the B-Segment grade Renegade and Compass.  There isn't that much that competes with it, it certainly has a unique take on the market which I think is encouraging.  You can imagine the Bronco won't be that cheap.

 

Either way, I'm sure Ford would love to sell more CX430s than Escapes, but I'm sure the pricing and lifestyle preferences will keep things pretty distinctive.  

Edited by Assimilator

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4 hours ago, T-dubz said:


this is my biggest complaint about the two vehicle strategy. Now, the vehicle the escape should have been all along is now the “premium” vehicle that I’ll have to pay more for. 6k more seems a bit ridiculous too. It better come standard with 4wd and the 2.0 ecoboost and maybe a few other things to justify that kind of price increase.

You won’t be disappointed, there is a higher starting price but it comes with the engine and drive train that most buyers in this group wants. The $6K premium is also about protecting Escape’s volume selling trims, Ford doesn’t want to simply trade sales away from Escape when Baby Bronco is all about adding premium sales (along with Corsair).

Edited by jpd80

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