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Throw this out there as I cant get a straight answer from our USELESS Zone rep. Anyone know why theres a material hold on the F150 Diesels?....Ordered two early December. Same can be said for the Material hold on the color Silver Spruce...

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jesus...was just notified the F-150 Diesel is on INDEFINITE  hold....anyone out there know the reasoning? ROI perhaps?

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Deanh said:

jesus...was just notified the F-150 Diesel is on INDEFINITE  hold....anyone out there know the reasoning? ROI perhaps?


Despite what the radical enthusiast will tell you, there's just no demand for it. 
 

Or more likely with DTP losing a shift temporarily due to the coronavirus they were forced to cut lesser selling models in order to use the now limited production capacity for stuff that does sell in order to keep the 2021 launch even remotely on time. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Despite what the radical enthusiast will tell you, there's just no demand for it. 
 

Or more likely with DTP losing a shift temporarily due to the coronavirus they were forced to cut lesser selling models in order to use the now limited production capacity for stuff that does sell in order to keep the 2021 launch even remotely on time. 

thx mate...rumor initially was EPA...then that got rectified...now its on indefinite hold...nuts...but I must say...even when they were on the ground they were slow moving...so much for Diesels being the Holy Grail when it comes to pickups...

 

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1 hour ago, Deanh said:

thx mate...rumor initially was EPA...then that got rectified...now its on indefinite hold...nuts...but I must say...even when they were on the ground they were slow moving...so much for Diesels being the Holy Grail when it comes to pickups...

 

Ford did nothing to promote F150 Diesel either,  who does that,

build a diesel version and tell no one about it

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3 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Ford did nothing to promote F150 Diesel either,  who does that,

build a diesel version and tell no one about it

Yep, total waste of development and manufacturing costs.  I realize that some of the costs are subsidized, but there is no need for this engine with the current engine line-up (not even with the improved fuel economy).  Chasing competition by offering a Diesel engine in a half ton is not a great business plan; considering it’s not class leading in power or FE.  

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21 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

Yep, total waste of development and manufacturing costs.  I realize that some of the costs are subsidized, but there is no need for this engine with the current engine line-up (not even with the improved fuel economy).  Chasing competition by offering a Diesel engine in a half ton is not a great business plan; considering it’s not class leading in power or FE.  

The V6 Powerstroke was entertained solely because of its good CAFE numbers but beyond that

I suspect that Ford jealously guarded it's Ecoboost sales. The 4.4 lion would have been a better fit

but then again, that's committing resources to a heavy half ton that stands in the way of Super Duty.

I'm beginning to think that something like a hybrid V8 coyote may make for a better all round solution.

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It's interesting that the diesel version of North American Transit didn't catch on either.

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14 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It's interesting that the diesel version of North American Transit didn't catch on either.

Transits are usually bought by fleets. ONE operator putting gas or DEF in the fuel tank (instant $10k non-warranty repair) will offset any fuel savings a long time.

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19 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford did nothing to promote F150 Diesel either,  who does that,

build a diesel version and tell no one about it

I couldn't tell you the last time I saw them promote a gasser, or a King Ranch, or an XL, or even a Raptor. Basically, they only promote the F-150 as a unified product, not any particular trim or engine or package, so I don't see what relevance "not promoting" the diesel has.

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1 hour ago, SoonerLS said:

I couldn't tell you the last time I saw them promote a gasser, or a King Ranch, or an XL, or even a Raptor. Basically, they only promote the F-150 as a unified product, not any particular trim or engine or package, so I don't see what relevance "not promoting" the diesel has.

 

Ford's producing too many Raptor's into the Market which is driving prices down to the point where it's a buyers market with Raptor's selling at invoice at times! Another example of Ford so focused on their own profit objectives that it's killing their Dealers ability to make a reasonable profit on them.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

I couldn't tell you the last time I saw them promote a gasser, or a King Ranch, or an XL, or even a Raptor. Basically, they only promote the F-150 as a unified product, not any particular trim or engine or package, so I don't see what relevance "not promoting" the diesel has.

That's the difference between existing sales momentum and attracting new buyers by way of a new engine option.

At some point in the past, Ford heavily promoted Ecoboost as an alternative to the V8, that's why people took a shot

if indeed there is no buyer interest in a diesel, the option shouldn't have made it into production.

 

Maybe the diesel wasn't promoted because Ford didn't want it to cannibalize existing gasoline engine sales,

whatever the reason they just didn't support it. Even fleet customers had no use for it. The base V6 gasoline

is just as useless sales wise but Ford isn't dropping that.

Edited by jpd80

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6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

That's the difference between existing sales momentum and attracting new buyers by way of a new engine option.

At some point in the past, Ford heavily promoted Ecoboost as an alternative to the V8, that's why people took a shot

if indeed there is no buyer interest in a diesel, the option shouldn't have made it into production.

 

Maybe the diesel wasn't promoted because Ford didn't want it to cannibalize existing gasoline engine sales,

whatever the reason they just didn't support it. Even fleet customers had no use for it. The base V6 gasoline

is just as useless sales wise but Ford isn't dropping that.

That option was about 15 years too late. Demand for a diesel half ton pretty much died when diesel became permanently more expensive than gasoline. Yeah, Fiat saw a bump when they added the Ecodiesel to the Ram 1500, but we’re talking what, 30-50K units (IIRC, when they were “selling out” the pre-orders, Ram and Heep were spitting 75K engines, max)? I’m pretty sure Ford sells more NA V6es in the F-150, and it’s not like they sell a whole lot of those. 
 

As bzcat noted in a previous thread, Tata/JLR paid for the Federalization of the V6 PSD, so it cost Ford peanuts to add it to the F-150. If it worked, it would help drive down unit costs for the mill (meaning more profit from the JLR sales), and if it didn’t, it didn’t really cost them anything. 
 

Also, the truck buyers, especially the ones who wanted a diesel half ton, are a different breed than your average car buyer. They know these things are coming, and they know the options they want before the order guides come out. That’s a large part of why the F-Series still has all the order options when Ford has “simplified” the options on others models. 
 

Also, pushing the EB35 was something different. The EB35 was there to replace the 6.2 V8 and become a volume engine, which was going to be a hard sell for a lot of truck buyers. They had to show that it was up to the task, or it was going to tank the F-150. The V6 PSD was never going to be more than a niche mill, so when you combine that with the small investment they had in putting it in the F-150, there’s really no incentive for them to push it. 

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5 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

That option was about 15 years too late. Demand for a diesel half ton pretty much died when diesel became permanently more expensive than gasoline. Yeah, Fiat saw a bump when they added the Ecodiesel to the Ram 1500, but we’re talking what, 30-50K units (IIRC, when they were “selling out” the pre-orders, Ram and Heep were spitting 75K engines, max)? I’m pretty sure Ford sells more NA V6es in the F-150, and it’s not like they sell a whole lot of those. 
 

As bzcat noted in a previous thread, Tata/JLR paid for the Federalization of the V6 PSD, so it cost Ford peanuts to add it to the F-150. If it worked, it would help drive down unit costs for the mill (meaning more profit from the JLR sales), and if it didn’t, it didn’t really cost them anything. 
 

Also, the truck buyers, especially the ones who wanted a diesel half ton, are a different breed than your average car buyer. They know these things are coming, and they know the options they want before the order guides come out. That’s a large part of why the F-Series still has all the order options when Ford has “simplified” the options on others models. 
 

Also, pushing the EB35 was something different. The EB35 was there to replace the 6.2 V8 and become a volume engine, which was going to be a hard sell for a lot of truck buyers. They had to show that it was up to the task, or it was going to tank the F-150. The V6 PSD was never going to be more than a niche mill, so when you combine that with the small investment they had in putting it in the F-150, there’s really no incentive for them to push it. 

I'm aware of all of that but remember that,

The 3.5 EB wasn't originally supposed to replace the 6.2, it was buyer preference that took Ford by surprise  and actually encouraged

Ford to go develop the 2.7 EB, surprise surprise, we now have a three way split with the 5.0 v8. The diesel is made to look like a minor

additional cost but the funding still had to be found and development of tune and reliability test program. I'm just in awe of the waste

of time and resources spent on a V6 diesel, clearly the half ton diesel niche is small and mostly preferencing Ram's Ecodiesel.

 

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6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I'm aware of all of that but remember that,The 3.5 EB wasn't originally supposed to replace the 6.2, it was buyer preference that took Ford by surprise


I think it was always planned that the 3.5LEB would replace the 6.2L, they just didn’t cancel the 6.2L until they were sure consumers would buy the ecoboost as the top engine.

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On 5/9/2020 at 10:46 AM, YT90SC said:

Transits are usually bought by fleets. ONE operator putting gas or DEF in the fuel tank (instant $10k non-warranty repair) will offset any fuel savings a long time.

The Air Force uses diesel Navaras and if we can find the right color pump, anyone can.

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12 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

That option was about 15 years too late. Demand for a diesel half ton pretty much died when diesel became permanently more expensive than gasoline. Yeah, Fiat saw a bump when they added the Ecodiesel to the Ram 1500, but we’re talking what, 30-50K units (IIRC, when they were “selling out” the pre-orders, Ram and Heep were spitting 75K engines, max)? I’m pretty sure Ford sells more NA V6es in the F-150, and it’s not like they sell a whole lot of those. 
 

As bzcat noted in a previous thread, Tata/JLR paid for the Federalization of the V6 PSD, so it cost Ford peanuts to add it to the F-150. If it worked, it would help drive down unit costs for the mill (meaning more profit from the JLR sales), and if it didn’t, it didn’t really cost them anything. 
 

Also, the truck buyers, especially the ones who wanted a diesel half ton, are a different breed than your average car buyer. They know these things are coming, and they know the options they want before the order guides come out. That’s a large part of why the F-Series still has all the order options when Ford has “simplified” the options on others models.

Do you think the Bronco will be similar to the F-150 in regards to a large option book or will it follow the simplified car system?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, probowler said:

Do you think the Bronco will be similar to the F-150 in regards to a large option book or will it follow the simplified car system?


I don't know for sure, but I think it will be a combination of both. Simplified ordering as far as the basic factory ordering/building is concerned, but a large variety of dealer add-ons and/or add-ons from the factory. They’re investing a lot into the new MOD Center inside the old Wayne Assembly building pretty much for Bronco. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, akirby said:


I think it was always planned that the 3.5LEB would replace the 6.2L, they just didn’t cancel the 6.2L until they were sure consumers would buy the ecoboost as the top engine.

It wasn't always planned, Ford wasn't expecting F150 buyers to embrace the 3.5 EB as much as they did,

you guys actually forced a good change at Ford, The  inability to deliver cylinder deactivation on the 6.2

was a major development issue that couldn't be solved, poor gas mileage and rising CAFE numbers

sealed the 6.2's fate in F150.

Edited by jpd80

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16 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

It wasn't always planned, Ford wasn't expecting F150 buyers to embrace the 3.5 EB as much as they did,

you guys actually forced a good change at Ford, The  inability to deliver cylinder deactivation on the 6.2

was a major development issue that couldn't be solved, poor gas mileage and rising CAFE numbers

sealed the 6.2's fate in F150.


But surely it was planned at some point - more power with much better fuel economy if for no other reason than cafe.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, akirby said:


But surely it was planned at some point - more power with much better fuel economy if for no other reason than cafe.

True but they didn't know if F150 buyers would reject the idea of a TTV6 over a conventional V8,

they had to quickly ramp up production of EB V6 but yes, it became a 45/45 split with the 5.0 V8.

Buyers who still wanted a 6.2 could still get one but I suspect they also wanted the SD truck as well.

 

Looking back, it was clever as the F150 got a superior engine and the 6.2 grew SD gasoline sales

Edited by jpd80

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6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

True but they didn't know if F150 buyers would reject the idea of a TTV6 over a conventional V8,

they had to quickly ramp up production of EB V6 but yes, it became a 45/45 split with the 5.0 V8.

Buyers who still wanted a 6.2 could still get one but I suspect they also wanted the SD truck as well.

 

Looking back, it was clever as the F150 got a superior engine and the 6.2 grew SD gasoline sales

The insider talk I heard before the EB35 was released was that it was definitely planned for the F-150, and it was always positioned in the F-150 as an alternative to, if not a direct replacement for, the 6.2. The big campaign with Mike Rowe emphasized the durability and performance of the EB, rarely mentioning fuel economy, aside from an occasional "oh, and it gets pretty good gas mileage, too" thrown in while talking about it having ALL the TORQUES!1!1!!1!

 

If you look at the performance envelopes of the 6.2 and EB35, it's pretty clear that Ford wanted the EB to replace the big V8; the only question was if the buyers would go for it.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

The insider talk I heard before the EB35 was released was that it was definitely planned for the F-150, and it was always positioned in the F-150 as an alternative to, if not a direct replacement for, the 6.2. The big campaign with Mike Rowe emphasized the durability and performance of the EB, rarely mentioning fuel economy, aside from an occasional "oh, and it gets pretty good gas mileage, too" thrown in while talking about it having ALL the TORQUES!1!1!!1!

 

If you look at the performance envelopes of the 6.2 and EB35, it's pretty clear that Ford wanted the EB to replace the big V8; the only question was if the buyers would go for it.

Not to deflect here but the 2010 F150 had four engines 4.6 2V, 4.6 3V, 5.4 3V and 6.2 in Raptor only.

The 2011 F150 changed all of that with 3.7 V6, 5.0 V8, 3.5 EB and the 6.2 now  in regular F150 and Raptor.

That aligns with what you said but Ford also left a lot of the engine choice in the hands of buyers and I must

concede that Ford would only do that if it wanted a big change in engine mix...which is actually what happened.

 

Now contrast that with offering V6 Powerstroke to retail buyers only in higher trims like Lariat and King Ranch and above.

On top of that premium, the diesel is an extra  $4K over the 2.7 EB and $3K over the 5.0, those are serious hurdles to any

buyers that may have been interested. By the time XLT diesel was made available to retail, any interest was gone. I noticed

that Ford lost interest in the V6 Powerstroke right about the time the Ram Ecodiesel aced it in official economy numbers.

 

In my opinion, Ford set the diesel at impossible prices to prove that no one wanted it. Ford always maintained that the

2.7 EB was a better choice than a diesel in F150 and by golly, nearly 13,000 buyers a month prove them right.

Edited by jpd80

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14 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I don't know for sure, but I think it will be a combination of both. Simplified ordering as far as the basic factory ordering/building is concerned, but a large variety of dealer add-ons and/or add-ons from the factory. They’re investing a lot into the new MOD Center inside the old Wayne Assembly building pretty much for Bronco. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what goodies they'll have for us!  Winch? Onboard air? CB Radio? Locking diffs? Even though it should have come stock, i would pay serious money for an actual tailgate with power-rear window.

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