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Bob Rosadini

Retained Customers When Ford Cars Are Gone.

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Yeah but, Caddy 5 goes into production in Europe next year.

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6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Yeah but, Caddy 5 goes into production in Europe next year.

 

Ok, I was getting all confused with VW's naming system.

 

The Caddy 5 is the 4th gen Caddy...go figure...

 

I wouldn't think VW would have had enough time to Federalize the Caddy 5 to NA standards given the timing of its development to the deal.

 

 

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3 hours ago, akirby said:

Wait - Caddy is a VW??

 

They own everything else, why not Caddy?  😛

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On 7/20/2020 at 1:27 AM, bzcat said:

But seriously... VWoA just gave the US spec Passat a minimal facelift... like the one Mark Fields gave Fusion 3 years ago so they are probably not going to attempt to gain any market share in the midsize sedan market.

 

VWoA just announced today they are ending production of the U.S. spec Passat next year. The Chattanooga plant where Passat is assembled will be transformed to produce BEV. A Limited Edition Passat will be produced for 2022 model year. Volkswagen announces end of U.S. Passat production with Limited Edition - Volkswagen US Media Site (vw.com)

 

"Herndon, VA — After a decade of success with American sedan buyers, Volkswagen of America, Inc. announced today that it will end assembly of the Passat sedan in Chattanooga with model year 2022, part of the plant’s transformation to build future electric vehicles. To celebrate the integral role of the Passat in the resurgence of Volkswagen in the United States, a short-run Limited Edition will join the lineup with Chattanooga-inspired details."

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Posted (edited)

The days of hoping, praying and wishing for a Ford "Camry/Accord killer" are over. Those who still want a true car, get imports, due to better and resale. DCT repairs and relying on "fleet sales" killed Ford car resale values forever. With all the SUV recalls, looks like they may lose that market, too.

 

 

Edited by 630land

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Camry has become the midsized car “lifeboat “, it’s the only reason sales haven’t completely collapsed.

Toyota knows that Camry buyers are heading to RAV4 so there’s no reason to doubt fewer future sales.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, 630land said:

The days of hoping, praying and wishing for a Ford "Camry/Accord killer" are over. Those who still want a true car, get imports, due to better and resale. DCT repairs and relying on "fleet sales" killed Ford car resale values forever. With all the SUV recalls, looks like they may lose that market, too.

 

Only hope of Ford making a "Camry/Accord killer" midsize sedan for the U.S. market is with an upcoming BEV, assuming of course that Ford's timing is ahead of Toyota and Honda introducing that type of car.

Edited by rperez817

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Only hope of Ford making a "Camry/Accord killer" midsize sedan for the U.S. market is with an upcoming BEV, assuming of course that Ford's timing is ahead of Toyota and Honda introducing that type of car.

There was a new Ford car prototype snapped in Germany recently but not sure that’s even US bound.

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It would be wise of Ford to keep at least one sedan/hatch/wagon in the lineup to slow the customer migration to the Japanese and Korean maker's products, but that gate's already been left open for a while so much of the damage has already been done. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

It would be wise of Ford to keep at least one sedan/hatch/wagon in the lineup to slow the customer migration to the Japanese and Korean maker's products, but that gate's already been left open for a while so much of the damage has already been done. 

 

The entire segment is dying so if there is migration it is, at best, a trickle as Japanese and Korean makers discontinue their lines of sedans, hatches/wagons as well...latest victim of the SUV/CUV trend is the Kia Stinger...

Edited by twintornados

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, twintornados said:

latest victim of the SUV/CUV trend is the Kia Stinger...

 

Kia just introduced a refreshed Stinger for 2022 model year. Did Kia Motors America decide to give up on it already? 2022 Kia Stinger Overview (kiamedia.com)

Edited by rperez817

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27 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Kia just introduced a refreshed Stinger for 2022 model year. Did Kia Motors America decide to give up on it already? 2022 Kia Stinger Overview (kiamedia.com)

 

https://jalopnik.com/kia-stinger-is-on-its-way-out-report-1847320501

 

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Sounds like its more of victim of the expected change over to BEVs then sales numbers. 

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9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Camry has become the midsized car “lifeboat “, it’s the only reason sales haven’t completely collapsed.

Toyota knows that Camry buyers are heading to RAV4 so there’s no reason to doubt fewer future sales.

 

Toyota sells a fair number of Camrys to rental car companies, and hasn't been reluctant to use generous incentives to spur sales. Honda doesn't rely as much on incentives to move the metal, and has avoided large-scale sales to fleet customers. Sales of the Accord therefore give a better picture of the state of that market segment. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, grbeck said:

Toyota sells a fair number of Camrys to rental car companies, and hasn't been reluctant to use generous incentives to spur sales. Honda doesn't rely as much on incentives to move the metal, and has avoided large-scale sales to fleet customers. Sales of the Accord therefore give a better picture of the state of that market segment. 

 

Honda is unique among the major automakers in the U.S. in that they do very few fleet sales, and also avoiding customer rebates as sales incentives to real customers. Toyota sold about 12 to 15% of Camrys to fleets prior to the Covid-19 situation last year. From Q2 2020 until now, fleet sales dropped off dramatically for Toyota just like with other automakers.

Edited by rperez817

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, grbeck said:

 

Toyota sells a fair number of Camrys to rental car companies, and hasn't been reluctant to use generous incentives to spur sales. Honda doesn't rely as much on incentives to move the metal, and has avoided large-scale sales to fleet customers. Sales of the Accord therefore give a better picture of the state of that market segment. 

Not arguing that but Camry is made up of retail buyers coming from other brands (refugees),

those rusted on car buyers are expected to waste away over the next few years, Toyota knows that.

Fewer sales of Camrys to rentals these days as they now  buy more utilities that are in demand by renters.

 

Theres no doubt that GM and Ford gave up on the midsized car segments because they

made it all about buying utilities, GM made the switch to utilities and Mexican production 

much quicker than Ford who took at least  two years longer to make the same changes

and made the loss of focus and fusion look like gaping sales wounds as they ebbed away.

What a terrible thing to do to once decent products……

 

Toyota and Honda choosing to stay in those markets a bit longer will certainly benefit by having

less competition and the lion’s share of segment sales. Toyota now sells a lot of hybrid Camrys

that keep sales mix and transition prices up.

 

Edited by jpd80

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Not arguing that but Camry is made up of retail buyers coming from other brands (refugees),

those rusted on car buyers are expected to waste away over the next few years, Toyota knows that.

Fewer sales of Camrys to rentals these days as they now  buy more utilities that are in demand by renters.

 

Yes sir jpd80, that is correct. In the U.S., Camry sales to retail buyers remain strong. The TMMK plant in Kentucky recently produced its 10 millionth Camry. Toyota Celebrates Production of 10 Millionth Camry in Kentucky - Toyota USA Newsroom

 

2021_TMMK_10MilCamry_3-1500x1000.jpg

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Sedans are still popular with young and minority group buyers, sad to see Ford abandoning these growth markets.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Sedans are still popular with young and minority group buyers

 

Yes ma'am GearheadGrrrl, IHS Markit data confirms that. Black new car buyers who already own a sedan are much more likely to choose another sedan for their next car compared to new car buyers overall. Hispanic buyers also have a higher than average loyalty to sedans, though not as much as blacks.

 

unbenannt.png

Edited by rperez817

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Sedans are still popular with young and minority group buyers, sad to see Ford abandoning these growth markets.

They are not growth markets but  Ford could have retained a presence in cars with the upgraded

C2 Focus and Fusion built at Flat Rock with Mustang, there’s always a way if Ford really wanted to

but guess what…

Edited by jpd80

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3 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Sedans are still popular with young and minority group buyers, sad to see Ford abandoning these growth markets.


Sedans are also popular because they’re cheaper than wagons or crossovers,  

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

They are not growth markets but  Ford could have retained a presence in cars with the upgraded

C2 Focus and Fusion built at Flat Rock with Mustang, there’s always a way if Ford really wanted to

but guess what…

 

Or, just ship them in from overseas. However, the market does not "demand" cars as much as it demands trucks, SUV's and CUV's...

Edited by twintornados

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9 hours ago, akirby said:

Sedans are also popular because they’re cheaper than wagons or crossovers,  

 

Wagons are rare in the U.S. new car market. Other than Mini Cooper Clubman and Subaru Outback, the few that do exist are premium models from European luxury brands, so that comparison is irrelevant.

 

Compared to comparably sized and equipped crossovers, sedans are not only cheaper in terms of initial purchase price but they drive better, are more fuel efficient, and are more stylish. 

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