bzcat Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 The European and Asian market Transit Connect and Tourneo Connect will be replaced by a rebadged VW Caddy. This is not news but this is the first time we have seen the prototype. https://www.carscoops.com/2021/07/2022-ford-tourneo-connect-spied-showing-its-vw-caddy-bones/ VW Caddy for reference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I'm glad that's not coming to NA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) No surprise that little effort will go into disguising this as a Ford, this is all about saving money in Europe. It underscores the bifurcation at Ford between its own North American market and things done elsewhere. Edited July 10, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Has anyone confirmed that the MEB platform is going to replace the Ford C platform as time goes on? I assuming that the primary driving force for replacing the Transit Connect in the EU and China is because both governments are pushing harder for EV adaption then in NA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Has anyone confirmed that the MEB platform is going to replace the Ford C platform as time goes on? I assuming that the primary driving force for replacing the Transit Connect in the EU and China is because both governments are pushing harder for EV adaption then in NA. That’s pretty much an open secret these days, C2 evolution set the platform up for the run to the finish its North American replacements will come from Oakville MEBs built in the second half of the decade. Europe will do likewise, building Fiesta and Focus replacements at Colone, Puma (and new BEV 2024) will continue in Romania for now but I get the feeling that Valencia flex plant will be slowly reworked ensuring that BEV Escape and other utilities are available as BEVs, legislation driving European change. Edited July 10, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 On 7/10/2021 at 4:56 AM, silvrsvt said: Has anyone confirmed that the MEB platform is going to replace the Ford C platform as time goes on? I assuming that the primary driving force for replacing the Transit Connect in the EU and China is because both governments are pushing harder for EV adaption then in NA. Transit Connect is not sold in China (except in Hong Kong for a while before Ford pulled out). It is sold in a few Asian markets that adopted or harmonized with European emission and safety standards so standard EU spec cars can be sold without modification in those area. Transit Connect being replaced by VW Caddy was primarily driven by the Ford-VW van/pickup alliance and doesn't have much to do with the EV adoption. Caddy/Transit Connect is on VW's MQB platform and it is not slated for electrification any time soon. VW will come to market with a cargo version of its ID Buzz electric van to address that market need. As for MEB replacing C platform, I think that's already cast in stone. B2 and smaller C2 will move over to MEB. Bigger C2 (and legacy CD4) and CD6 will move over to GE2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passis Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 It's a pity that C2 and CD6 arrived a bit late and will not bare as many fruits as it could, due to EV transition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, passis said: It's a pity that C2 and CD6 arrived a bit late and will not bare as many fruits as it could, due to EV transition. C2 is not doing bad. Focus, Escape, Bronco Sport, Maverick..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, mackinaw said: C2 is not doing bad. Focus, Escape, Bronco Sport, Maverick..... Good bang for bucks considering it’s also a heavy evolution of C1 which began in Europe in 2003. Edited July 13, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 17 hours ago, bzcat said: B2 and smaller C2 will move over to MEB. Bigger C2 (and legacy CD4) and CD6 will move over to GE2. Would it be accurate to say that MEB is still the 'Europe solution' due to its size, whereas GE2 is the 'North America solution' also due to its size? Are there any smaller C2 products (I don't think B2 is even being considered) that will be manufactured in North America? If the above is true, what are the chassis plans (EV-wise) for China? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Harley Lover said: Would it be accurate to say that MEB is still the 'Europe solution' due to its size, whereas GE2 is the 'North America solution' also due to its size? Are there any smaller C2 products (I don't think B2 is even being considered) that will be manufactured in North America? If the above is true, what are the chassis plans (EV-wise) for China? No products that are on the C2 like Escape and Bronco Sport will be eventually moved to MEB or Ford's version of it. From early reports of the ID4, seems like people aren't exactly taken with it-they say its "sterile" GE2 is for CD sized products like the Edge and what ever else Ford is planning for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, mackinaw said: C2 is not doing bad. Focus, Escape, Bronco Sport, Maverick..... + Equator, Evos, Corsair, upcoming Mondeo and the Western Hemisphere version of Transit Connect... and maybe even Lincoln Zephyr. 8 hours ago, Harley Lover said: Would it be accurate to say that MEB is still the 'Europe solution' due to its size, whereas GE2 is the 'North America solution' also due to its size? Are there any smaller C2 products (I don't think B2 is even being considered) that will be manufactured in North America? If the above is true, what are the chassis plans (EV-wise) for China? Oakville is the home of MEB for North America. Confirmed product right now is only Corsair but obviously that means Escape too. This is just my guess but based on what Ford has said and known investments already made: MEB will replace Fiesta (B2), Puma (B2), Focus (C2), Kuga (C2), Corsair (C2). Two production centers confirmed: Cologne and Oakville, but likely also either Saarlouis or Valencia (one will be chosen for MEB and the other will consolidate remaining C2) GE2 will replace Edge (CD4), Nautilus (CD4), Explorer (CD6), Aviator (CD6), Mach E (GE1). Two production centers confirmed: Chongqing and Cuautitlan, but likely one more plant in US (your pick between Chicago or Louisville) No EV replacement plans for now: EcoSport (B1), Transit Connect EU (MQB), Ka/Figo/Aspire/Freestyle (B1), Escort (C1), Territory, Transit Courier (B1) Too new/EV replacement unclear or too far out: Maverick (C2), Evos (C2), Mondeo (C2), Transit Connect US (C2) Committed to EV replacement but no clear path yet on how to do it: Mustang (S650/2023 model year) Edited July 13, 2021 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, bzcat said: + Equator, Evos, Corsair, upcoming Mondeo and the Western Hemisphere version of Transit Connect... and maybe even Lincoln Zephyr. Oakville is the home of MEB for North America. Confirmed product right now is only Corsair but obviously that means Escape too. This is just my guess but based on what Ford has said and known investments already made: MEB will replace Fiesta (B2), Puma (B2), Focus (C2), Kuga (C2), Corsair (C2). Two production centers confirmed: Cologne and Oakville, but likely also either Saarlouis or Valencia (one will be chosen for MEB and the other will consolidate remaining C2) GE2 will replace Edge (CD4), Nautilus (CD4), Explorer (CD6), Aviator (CD6), Mach E (GE1). Two production centers confirmed: Chongqing and Cuautitlan, but likely one more plant in US (your pick between Chicago or Louisville) No EV replacement plans for now: EcoSport (B1), Transit Connect EU (MQB), Ka/Figo/Aspire/Freestyle (B1), Escort (C1), Territory, Transit Courier (B1) Too new/EV replacement unclear or too far out: Maverick (C2), Evos (C2), Mondeo (C2), Transit Connect US (C2) Committed to EV replacement but no clear path yet on how to do it: Mustang (S650/2023 model year) How appropriate it would be if Aviator and Explorer production were moved and CAP (Chicago Assembly Plant) was left struggling for product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Committed to EV replacement but no clear path yet on how to do it: Mustang (S650/2023 model year) Wouldn't smart money be on the Mach E and Mustang sharing a platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, ice-capades said: How appropriate it would be if Aviator and Explorer production were moved and CAP (Chicago Assembly Plant) was left struggling for product. Karma is a bitch…. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Wouldn't smart money be on the Mach E and Mustang sharing a platform? We don't know anything yet about GE2 so hard to say... but all the GE2 vehicles are utilities. S650 will debut in late 2022 and will go until 2028 or 29. Flat Rock is an island on itself since it can't produce any utilities so I'm guessing Ford will not invest in GE2 production in Flat Rock, not in the near term anyway. That means if there is an EV Mustang coupe, it will probably be a retrofit S650, or another evolution of it. Ford doesn't need to use the skateboard chassis GE2 for Mustang... the production volume is low-ish in an antique plant... maybe better off just adapting what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) On 7/13/2021 at 2:13 PM, bzcat said: + Equator, Evos, Corsair, upcoming Mondeo and the Western Hemisphere version of Transit Connect... and maybe even Lincoln Zephyr. Oakville is the home of MEB for North America. Confirmed product right now is only Corsair but obviously that means Escape too. This is just my guess but based on what Ford has said and known investments already made: MEB will replace Fiesta (B2), Puma (B2), Focus (C2), Kuga (C2), Corsair (C2). Two production centers confirmed: Cologne and Oakville, but likely also either Saarlouis or Valencia (one will be chosen for MEB and the other will consolidate remaining C2) GE2 will replace Edge (CD4), Nautilus (CD4), Explorer (CD6), Aviator (CD6), Mach E (GE1). Two production centers confirmed: Chongqing and Cuautitlan, but likely one more plant in US (your pick between Chicago or Louisville) No EV replacement plans for now: EcoSport (B1), Transit Connect EU (MQB), Ka/Figo/Aspire/Freestyle (B1), Escort (C1), Territory, Transit Courier (B1) Too new/EV replacement unclear or too far out: Maverick (C2), Evos (C2), Mondeo (C2), Transit Connect US (C2) Committed to EV replacement but no clear path yet on how to do it: Mustang (S650/2023 model year) Yup, Corsair only confirmed product at OAC. Lots of people up here are speculating about what products we may get. People are also spreading rumors that we will retool early but that’s all talk. The past couple weeks all we have been building is Nautilus on reduced hours while the 11000 edges are rotting outside the OAC lots. Oakville bottom of the barrel til retool so such is life! I see lots of downtime and a stockpile before they tear this place apart to install MEB platform. I hope ford sheds more light soon about the other products that are coming here. I agree though Corsair means Escape and similar products probably. Edited July 23, 2021 by Oacjay98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 On 7/14/2021 at 10:05 AM, bzcat said: We don't know anything yet about GE2 so hard to say... but all the GE2 vehicles are utilities. S650 will debut in late 2022 and will go until 2028 or 29. Flat Rock is an island on itself since it can't produce any utilities so I'm guessing Ford will not invest in GE2 production in Flat Rock, not in the near term anyway. That means if there is an EV Mustang coupe, it will probably be a retrofit S650, or another evolution of it. Ford doesn't need to use the skateboard chassis GE2 for Mustang... the production volume is low-ish in an antique plant... maybe better off just adapting what you have. It’s true that FRAP was to be scrapped before the current UAW agreement and was kept as the cheapest/do nothing alternative as is the the evolution of S550 with CD6 modules. You bring up an interesting point regarding the choices for a BEV Mustang coupe: 1. through development from the hybrid Mustang (kinda like BEV Focus but different) 2. GE2 body on skateboard but that would require different body and frame assembly processes. My gut feeling is GE2 built in Mexico with GEN 2 Mustang Mach E and 3-Row SUVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: It’s true that FRAP was to be scrapped before the current UAW agreement and was kept as the cheapest/do nothing alternative as is the the evolution of S550 with CD6 modules. You bring up an interesting point regarding the choices for a BEV Mustang coupe: 1. through development from the hybrid Mustang (kinda like BEV Focus but different) 2. GE2 body on skateboard but that would require different body and frame assembly processes. My gut feeling is GE2 built in Mexico with GEN 2 Mustang Mach E and 3-Row SUVs. What 3 row suvs if they said they will be the size of edge nautilus unless they put explorer aviator EVs in mexico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said: What 3 row suvs if they said they will be the size of edge nautilus unless they put explorer aviator EVs in mexico As I’ve said before, the rumours I’m hearing is that GE2 covers the 3-Row BEV SUVs, Explorer & Aviator, those logically go to Cuautitlan with MME. The way I see MEB production is everything below that, Escape, Corsair, Edge, Nautilus and BEV car (late). that would be five vehicles eminently doable on MEB, saving a crap ton of money, the whole reason why Ford is using MEB in the first place…..those five make OAC critical to North America and some global markets. Ive included Edge/Nautilus on the MEB exactly because of cost sensitivity (stillborn CD6 versions) MEB fits the bill for these and keeps production at an existing, good distribution point. Edited July 24, 2021 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Thanks for the insight, what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. I hope to hear more from ford to in regards to OAC product allocation as well as Mexico. The retool is years away but I’m sure they’re far into the planning process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 37 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: Thanks for the insight, what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. I hope to hear more from ford to in regards to OAC product allocation as well as Mexico. The retool is years away but I’m sure they’re far into the planning process. I think it was stupid not to do a C2 hybrid Edge/Nautilus but knowing that CD6 versions of these vehicles got as far as they did, it’s understandable that Ford had neither the time or funding to do that. In hindsight it may have been better to forge ahead with the CD6 versions as they would have Changed the perception of these vehicles more quickly than waiting for the BEVs to do that. Its just a case of Ford second guessing themselves on the five yard line to save money and I think it was a mistake to do that so late in development…… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 On 7/24/2021 at 5:59 PM, jpd80 said: I think it was stupid not to do a C2 hybrid Edge/Nautilus but knowing that CD6 versions of these vehicles got as far as they did, it’s understandable that Ford had neither the time or funding to do that. In hindsight it may have been better to forge ahead with the CD6 versions as they would have Changed the perception of these vehicles more quickly than waiting for the BEVs to do that. Its just a case of Ford second guessing themselves on the five yard line to save money and I think it was a mistake to do that so late in development…… Many many years ago we were told hybrid versions were coming that never ever happened. It will be interesting to see what will happen to these name plates after ICE versions go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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