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'22 Navigator Revealed

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43 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

 

 

 

I'm addressing both comments in one reply.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the thought that more could have been done.  But I will push back some - I wonder if Ford was also hesistant to launch too many new things in this wiht the state of chips and whatnot?  i.e. maybe they had some more things planned but pulled back in an effort to keep things in production?   As I also said before, if there's a year shorter timeline for replacement, it also makes sense they didn't change too much.

 

One thing I will push back more heavily on is the MB comparison - the pictures above are all new vehicles - the S-class and hideous EQS - an unfair comparison to a refreshed Navigator.  The outgoing S-class went from 2014-2020, and its refresh included new headlight and taillight graphics, a new lower front bumper, and a new steering wheel.  So let's not pretend they swapped out the entire interior or something for a refresh.  GM doesn't even refresh the SUVs, they just wait for a redesign.

 

Again, I'm agreeing more could have been done, but from the manufacturing side of it, I understand the potential reasons for not doing more, even if others can't.

Oh by no way am I saying that MB just wiped the slate clean with the Sclass update. Thing is, the Sclass is their flagship, and with that, every Generation it users in the direction for the entire brand as WELL as ushering in new tech features and leading in its SEGMENT, a segment that they’ve OWNED for at least 30 years. If anything, they ALONG with Ford (Fseries) are the ones who could get away with “just waiting” and having minor updates because they have that built in cache and market LEAD, but in Lincoln’s case, they’ve been at the bottom of the segment  and been getting trounced by the Escalade  in sales and ATPs and just when they’re catching up, all of a sudden there’s a severely minor update.

 

Yes the IDEAL thing would be to introduce minor styling tweaks BUT they are not in a IDEAL situation, they’re playing catch up. And of course GM can go without updating the Escalade, they are afforded that luxury because of market DOMINANCE. Simple and plain. YES a lot of these changes would have cost money esp compared to a typical  MCE, BUT when you’re just getting back on the radar, you have to do certain things to STAY THERE.
 

The interior is STILL GREATLY STYLED, BUT when you look at a Escalade with OLED 38” curved display/augmented reality or the horrendous Wagooner with its gazillion screens and then consider the Navi still has the same sized digital tach that lacks augmentation and isn’t very customizable/ no soft close doors/no night vision/no air suspension/ no higher output versions.

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10 hours ago, rmc523 said:

One thing I will push back more heavily on is the MB comparison - the pictures above are all new vehicles - the S-class and hideous EQS - an unfair comparison to a refreshed Navigator.  The outgoing S-class went from 2014-2020, and its refresh included new headlight and taillight graphics, a new lower front bumper, and a new steering wheel.  So let's not pretend they swapped out the entire interior or something for a refresh.  GM doesn't even refresh the SUVs, they just wait for a redesign.

 

Again, I'm agreeing more could have been done, but from the manufacturing side of it, I understand the potential reasons for not doing more, even if others can't.

I guess my point was misunderstood haha, I didn't try to say that MB gave the new interior to the refresh cars, what I meant was that MB gives the best they have on their top model (like the S class) and I think that Ford doesn't do that with the Lincoln brand and specially with the Navi. 

About GM, maybe it is better to do a redesign instead of a refresh, I don't know but as you do I also understand the reasons for not doing more, I just hope someday they will change that 'behaviour' because it seems that Lincoln is a bit behind in the tech department. 

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14 hours ago, joseodiaga4 said:

I guess my point was misunderstood haha, I didn't try to say that MB gave the new interior to the refresh cars, what I meant was that MB gives the best they have on their top model (like the S class) and I think that Ford doesn't do that with the Lincoln brand and specially with the Navi. 

About GM, maybe it is better to do a redesign instead of a refresh, I don't know but as you do I also understand the reasons for not doing more, I just hope someday they will change that 'behaviour' because it seems that Lincoln is a bit behind in the tech department. 


From what PD is saying, it sounds like Lincoln is getting plenty of funding going forward, so hopefully we see that reflected in future redesigns.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

That new lightbar definitely cleans up the rear end nicely.

Agreed.  I like the front end improvements as well, but that rear lightbar is what makes it so much nicer.  A lot less truck-like. 

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On 9/10/2021 at 2:47 PM, rmc523 said:


From what PD is saying, it sounds like Lincoln is getting plenty of funding going forward, so hopefully we see that reflected in future redesigns.

 

What Navigator needs now is a pneumatic suspension that competes with Escalade Magna Ride. In comparison test, the front end of Nav nose dives down in heavy braking while the Escalade remains level. Nautilus has same problem. At least make it an option and should be standard on highest trim level like Black Label. Expected at those price points.

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16 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

What Navigator needs now is a pneumatic suspension that competes with Escalade Magna Ride. In comparison test, the front end of Nav nose dives down in heavy braking while the Escalade remains level. Nautilus has same problem. At least make it an option and should be standard on highest trim level like Black Label. Expected at those price points.

 

You mean air suspension?  They both offer magneride suspension currently, gm tunes their suspension more firmly, hence less nosedive, but lincolns offer better rough road compliance, unless you get air springs and magneride on gm.  

Edited by Dlcorbett

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Seems like Expedition got more attention this time, probably because Ford really thinks Jeep Grand Wagoneer is more of a threat against Expedition.

 

I'm still not quite sure why Ford didn't spend the money to get the Powerboost PHEV to the twins... I think that would have been very well received.

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

I'm still not quite sure why Ford didn't spend the money to get the Powerboost PHEV to the twins... I think that would have been very well received.


They don’t even offer a Powerboost PHEV F150, why would they in the Expedition?

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1 hour ago, sullynd said:


They don’t even offer a Powerboost PHEV F150, why would they in the Expedition?

He meant the regular PowerBoost I'm sure

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12 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

He meant the regular PowerBoost I'm sure


Its a shame it’s not available as a PHEV. 

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1 hour ago, sullynd said:


Its a shame it’s not available as a PHEV. 

Next gen in 2024.  Gm and jeep will most likely beat ford to the fs suv phev market it looks like.

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41 minutes ago, Dlcorbett said:

Next gen in 2024.  Gm and jeep will most likely beat ford to the fs suv phev market it looks like.

 

GM?  I don't think there's any indication GM is working on a PHEV.

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54 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

GM?  I don't think there's any indication GM is working on a PHEV.

The hummer and silverado ev is the basis for the suv phev.  All it really is is a body swap.

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5 hours ago, Dlcorbett said:

The hummer and silverado ev is the basis for the suv phev.  All it really is is a body swap.


Neither of those are PHEV. 

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After watching a in depth review of UConnect 5 on the new Grand Wagoneer, I am disappointed with Lincoln's lack of updates on the Navigator.  Grand Wagoneer has a customizable HUD, 12" drivers display, 10" passenger seat display, 12" rear screens, large main screen with a separate screen for HVAC plus a screen in the rear for HVAC.  All screens are connected, with USB and HDMI ports, can pull up NAV, send waypoints to the driver to accept or deny, super intuitive, plus the interior looks great.

 

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14 hours ago, bzcat said:

Seems like Expedition got more attention this time, probably because Ford really thinks Jeep Grand Wagoneer is more of a threat against Expedition.

 

I'm still not quite sure why Ford didn't spend the money to get the Powerboost PHEV to the twins... I think that would have been very well received.

 

The rumor has it that they'll get another refresh/redesign in the next 24-36 months to add it? 

 

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21 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The rumor has it that they'll get another refresh/redesign in the next 24-36 months to add it? 

 


Aren't F150/Expedition supposed to get a new BEV capable platform in that timeframe?  I seem to recall that being part of the BEV platforms announcement. 

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3 hours ago, sullynd said:


Aren't F150/Expedition supposed to get a new BEV capable platform in that timeframe?  I seem to recall that being part of the BEV platforms announcement. 

 

If BORG is to be believed, both redesigned ICE (and presumably PowerBoost) AND BEV models are coming.

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7 hours ago, Flying68 said:

After watching a in depth review of UConnect 5 on the new Grand Wagoneer, I am disappointed with Lincoln's lack of updates on the Navigator.  Grand Wagoneer has a customizable HUD, 12" drivers display, 10" passenger seat display, 12" rear screens, large main screen with a separate screen for HVAC plus a screen in the rear for HVAC.  All screens are connected, with USB and HDMI ports, can pull up NAV, send waypoints to the driver to accept or deny, super intuitive, plus the interior looks great.

 

I agree....a new 2024 model I supposed to be coming but the 12'' driver display in the Navi is not at the same level as the one in the Escalade, Grand Wagonner....if I am not wrong even the Ford Endeavour in china has a better display 

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How os the driver display that much worse.  It already has animations, and has grown bigger to 12in and will include more information in better graphics such as activeglide, the lane centering, intelligent cruise, etc.  It may be more "minimal" than the fords tach and not include night vision and augmented navigation, but it still has depth of graphics and animations that neither the escalade or wagoneer have from what I seen.  And the HUD and center screen is comfortably competitive with the others in terms in terms of size and display graphics.  

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11 hours ago, Dlcorbett said:

How os the driver display that much worse.  It already has animations, and has grown bigger to 12in and will include more information in better graphics such as activeglide, the lane centering, intelligent cruise, etc.  It may be more "minimal" than the fords tach and not include night vision and augmented navigation, but it still has depth of graphics and animations that neither the escalade or wagoneer have from what I seen.  And the HUD and center screen is comfortably competitive with the others in terms in terms of size and display graphics.  

 

I agree about the HUD and the center screen (although it is much smaller than the one on the Expy and the competition). About the driver display, it is really basic, there is more info as you say but the graphics and animations are no near the competition and it doesn't include augmented reality (the Germans and even Cadillac have it) and night vision (as far as I remember, the germans have this for at least 10 years)

 

Some pics to make my point 

Navi

image.thumb.png.0af7891c69f6e5d63ccdc5f8f11a5484.png

 

image.png.206bfb0f788f53f7339d71744f41146b.png

image.png.6103d20e9761dee461000fa9cf0eebe8.png

 

image.png.7f0feb6842de64aefff64a2e3d17926c.png

 

I uploaded a screenshot from a video of the Chinese Ford Equator that has augmented reality 

 

Also, why the new Expy now has the same hp as the Navi? 🙄🤦‍♂️

 

Screen Shot 2021-09-23 at 14.44.47.png

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