2022 Super Duty Orders & Discussion

[le engineer]

1 hour ago, Monoman said:

 

Very true about who Ford's customers really are.  There's nothing wrong with paying MSRP if that's the price for everyone.  I will say our purchase experience with Tesla was one of the best. The warranty/repair/service experience has been mostly great or above average with one exception where an outside body shop dealt with a paint warranty issue.  No offshore call center either.

The difference between MSRP and my final price with Granger is $10k. I’d rather have $10k in my bank account and not concern myself with what someone else paid. Would you feel differently?

[Monoman]

53 minutes ago, le engineer said:

The difference between MSRP and my final price with Granger is $10k. I’d rather have $10k in my bank account and not concern myself with what someone else paid. Would you feel differently?

 

If we are all paying the same amount then I"m not going to be concerned.  If there is an opportunity to save s significant amount of money (thousands in this case) then I care... that's why I ordered my truck through Granger.  

[akirby]

2 hours ago, le engineer said:

The difference between MSRP and my final price with Granger is $10k. I’d rather have $10k in my bank account and not concern myself with what someone else paid. Would you feel differently?

Then Ford can’t do incremental allocations and you’ll have to take your chances within Granger’s normal allocation and queue.  It might take a lot longer or they run out of allocation before they get to yours.

 

With factory MSRP pricing for everyone you won’t have one dealer monopolizing orders so they could afford to do incremental allocations for verified customer orders.  You could order from a local dealer and not worry about the dealer having allocation.

[akirby]

BTW Granger was never selling at $10K below MSRP.  Maybe $5K.

[le engineer]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

BTW Granger was never selling at $10K below MSRP.  Maybe $5K.

Editing this now that I have time to type up a proper response. 
 

You’re right that it wasn’t $10k. I went back and pulled my paperwork. The difference is $7k. I’ll gladly wait to save that kind of money. If allocations slow things down, that’s a consequence I’m willing to face. I’d buy from Granger at the same price as my shithead local dealer for the simple pleasure of not dealing with their nonsense. 
 

While you’re right that high volume stores like Granger upset the allocation balance, they do something far more important. They redefine how dealers can operate. When you contact sales, you aren’t pounded for personal information and harassed by half a dozen people around the clock. You’re greeted with a no-bullshit approach. They open with ultra competitive pricing, give you straight answers, and move you through the order process as quickly as possible. With such a high closing rate and so little drama on the customer front, they don’t need to carry a large sales staff. Their entire front of house is the size of a used car lot office. 
 

In the time it takes a traditional high gross salesperson to jerk a customer around to squeeze that extra profit, they could have cut the crap and closed several happy customers instead. These people manage to make what should be a happy, exciting experience and turn it into pure misery. Fuck ‘em. Let stores like Granger steal their allocations with an incremental system. Let customers discover how painless the car buying process can be when they shop somewhere else. Let the deceitful high pressure salesmen starve. Force other dealers to get competitive or get replaced. We don’t need to tolerate the old school grinders anymore. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by le engineer

[LT75]

16 hours ago, akirby said:

BTW Granger was never selling at $10K below MSRP.  Maybe $5K.

It’s about $7k in savings. I’m in the same boat. Not in a hurry so I’ll wait to save $7k. 

[TXRoadRunner]

I'm looking for an "unclaimed" 2022 F250, Lariat preferably, while I wait for my 2023 F250 King Ranch to be produced and shipped.  I need an interim F250 to two my trailer to the Big Bend area in March then to the Black Hills in June.  Since there are no guarantees the 23 KRU will be here by June, I'm considering purchasing a dealer ordered F250.  I found a couple at Grangers website yesterday for around $76K on the window sticker.  The price on the Granger website showed $86K which was confirmed by the salesperson I spoke to.  They may have wiggled the price down for some of the special orders but are not budging on the price for these late dealer orders.

[DjMatrok]

Can we track the shipping on our order using the information on the window sticker?

 

Mine is supposedly in Blue Island, IL.

[le engineer]

25 minutes ago, TXRoadRunner said:

I'm looking for an "unclaimed" 2022 F250, Lariat preferably, while I wait for my 2023 F250 King Ranch to be produced and shipped.  I need an interim F250 to two my trailer to the Big Bend area in March then to the Black Hills in June.  Since there are no guarantees the 23 KRU will be here by June, I'm considering purchasing a dealer ordered F250.  I found a couple at Grangers website yesterday for around $76K on the window sticker.  The price on the Granger website showed $86K which was confirmed by the salesperson I spoke to.  They may have wiggled the price down for some of the special orders but are not budging on the price for these late dealer orders.

The discount is for a truck you wait to receive. If it’s not your order and it’s sitting on the lot, they want to make their margin on that one. 

[sosptuba]

I just received the following email from Ford on my '22 order

 

Quote

Thank you again for your Super Duty F-350 Limited order. We wanted to let you know that we are still up against supply chain challenges, which are causing delays with getting your vehicle into production. While we understand how frustrated you may be (we are too), rest assured, our team is working diligently and aggressively to get you behind the wheel.

We know how much anticipation there is when it comes to getting a new Ford, so we will continue to keep you updated. In the meantime, we apologize for any inconvenience and remain grateful for your patience and understanding.

 

2023 order banks are closed and I thought they had the schedule full for the remainder of the year. The really frustrating part is I haven't once heard from my dealer on this. Order was placed 457 days ago....

 

It is absolutely insane that neither my dealer nor Ford made any attempt to let me know..."Hey, you may want to order a '23 because the order banks close on 11/16 and you might not get your '22".

Edited November 17, 2022 by sosptuba

[Volintejas]

2 hours ago, sosptuba said:

I just received the following email from Ford on my '22 order

 

 

2023 order banks are closed and I thought they had the schedule full for the remainder of the year. The really frustrating part is I haven't once heard from my dealer on this. Order was placed 457 days ago....

 

It is absolutely insane that neither my dealer nor Ford made any attempt to let me know..."Hey, you may want to order a '23 because the order banks close on 11/16 and you might not get your '22".

I got the same email today…about three hours after my dealer called to let me know the truck is on the lot and ready to go home.  
 

Go figure. 

[Monoman]

3 hours ago, sosptuba said:

I just received the following email from Ford on my '22 order

 

 

2023 order banks are closed and I thought they had the schedule full for the remainder of the year. The really frustrating part is I haven't once heard from my dealer on this. Order was placed 457 days ago....

 

It is absolutely insane that neither my dealer nor Ford made any attempt to let me know..."Hey, you may want to order a '23 because the order banks close on 11/16 and you might not get your '22".

 

I think the MY23 order bank closed for Platinum and Limited trims only.  

[road turtle]

On 11/16/2022 at 10:51 AM, akirby said:

Sigh.  It has nothing to do with punishing or rewarding dealers.  This is strictly about allocations.  

We're going to have to agree to disagree.  Allocations is 100% about punishing or rewarding dealers.  Limiting A dealer like Grangers allocations is punishing the dealer making money on volume.  Not limiting allocations on dealers adding bonus money to MSRP is rewarding those dealers.

[akirby]

11 hours ago, road turtle said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree.  Allocations is 100% about punishing or rewarding dealers.  Limiting A dealer like Grangers allocations is punishing the dealer making money on volume.  Not limiting allocations on dealers adding bonus money to MSRP is rewarding those dealers.

Except doing that is patently illegal.  Ford has no say in the selling price of a vehicle and if Ford did what you suggest there would be lawsuits overnight and Ford would lose. They can only do factory guaranteed MSRP pricing with the dealer’s consent and that’s still up in the air on BEVs.

 

Besides, they don’t want one dealer monopolizing sales even though I’m sure they’d like to lose a few here and there.  Granger puts all surrounding dealers out of business and suddenly they raise prices and you’re stuck with that.  

[le engineer]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Except doing that is patently illegal.  Ford has no say in the selling price of a vehicle and if Ford did what you suggest there would be lawsuits overnight and Ford would lose. They can only do factory guaranteed MSRP pricing with the dealer’s consent and that’s still up in the air on BEVs.

 

Besides, they don’t want one dealer monopolizing sales even though I’m sure they’d like to lose a few here and there.  Granger puts all surrounding dealers out of business and suddenly they raise prices and you’re stuck with that.  

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with legality. Unless you’re suggesting what happened with incremental allocations in 2022 is illegal, what he wants is fine. 
 

I agree it’s best not to monopolize sales. You’re absolutely right that allowing a monopoly invites the opportunity for the few surviving stores to jack up the price. 
 

The solution is somewhere in the middle. Allow incremental allocations to a certain extent without totally suffocating low volume stores. I still want to see legitimate competitive pressure on the high-margin grinders. That manipulative culture needs to fuck right off. The only path to success should be competitive pricing and good service. 

[livinlogs]

My 22 order is supposed to arrive 12.28 . I ordered a 23 day one when the banks opened . Based on everything, not sure I’ll get either . The arrival date was the first date I received, I’m skeptical of it . I ordered a lariat ultimate for 23 in hopes it makes it . 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, le engineer said:

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with legality. Unless you’re suggesting what happened with incremental allocations in 2022 is illegal, what he wants is fine. 

If Ford gives Granger 3000 Broncos and only gives others 300 Broncos when past allocations were much more equal you can bet the other dealers will sue under state franchise law.  They weren’t expecting incremental allocations to result in such lopsided orders.

 

To me businesses who sell at or below cost are just as bad as the ones who try to rip off buyers.  Because they’re taking business from others who are trying to make a reasonable profit.   Let’s say you’re a small business selling fruit at a very reasonable but profitable markup.  Now WalMart decides to sell all their produce 5% below cost and make it up elsewhere.  Is that fair?  If you match their pricing you go out of business.

 

The solution is somewhere in the middle or you figure out how to do fixed pricing (MSRP).  Most buyers seem to be fine with MSRP on orders now anyway.

[le engineer]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

If Ford gives Granger 3000 Broncos and only gives others 300 Broncos when past allocations were much more equal you can bet the other dealers will sue under state franchise law.  They weren’t expecting incremental allocations to result in such lopsided orders.

 

To me businesses who sell at or below cost are just as bad as the ones who try to rip off buyers.  Because they’re taking business from others who are trying to make a reasonable profit.   Let’s say you’re a small business selling fruit at a very reasonable but profitable markup.  Now WalMart decides to sell all their produce 5% below cost and make it up elsewhere.  Is that fair?  If you match their pricing you go out of business.

 

The solution is somewhere in the middle or you figure out how to do fixed pricing (MSRP).  Most buyers seem to be fine with MSRP on orders now anyway.

Did they receive 10x the allocations? I haven’t seen a high-margin dealer go out of business in the last two years regardless. We’re in agreement that the solution is somewhere in the middle. 
 

When every small fruit stand has a more profitable landscaping supply & repair shop attached to it, selling fruit a few percentage points under cost won’t put them out of business. In addition to that landscaping shop, they still have their margin on everything else the customer buys with their fruit. This is moot if Walmart suppliers stop sending them fruit by March anyway. 
 

Buyers are paying MSRP right now because the only alternatives are a horrifically overpriced used car or nothing at all. Buyers were fine paying under invoice before dealers had the excuse of low inventory to charge sticker+. I doubt anyone wants to pay sticker when invoice is on the table. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by le engineer

[Monoman]

Plenty of dealers were claiming “below invoice” pricing for a long time.  These greedy dealers love competing as long as they think they are winning. 
 

[4thTimer]

On 11/16/2022 at 2:04 PM, akirby said:

Dealer prep.

I've asked what is involved in dealer prep and not received much of an answer.  I imagine a good bit of it involves removing things used for shipping like plastics, and clean up which wouldn't be necessary with factory pick up. Topping off fluids?

[UT_Grandpa]

Dealer Prep on my truck was taking all the plastic off, programming some items on the truck with me, demonstrating many of the functions and controls, a complete detail and a full tank of gas.

[le engineer]

8 hours ago, 4thTimer said:

I've asked what is involved in dealer prep and not received much of an answer.  I imagine a good bit of it involves removing things used for shipping like plastics, and clean up which wouldn't be necessary with factory pick up. Topping off fluids?

Someone posted their PDI checklist here or on the other forum not too long ago. It’s a little more than pulling off protective plastic. Taking the truck out of transport mode, detailing, repairing anything damaged in transit, etc. 

[4thTimer]

6 hours ago, le engineer said:

Taking the truck out of transport mode, detailing, repairing anything damaged in transit, etc. 

None of which would be required if the vehicle were picked up at the factory. 

[TenTex]

Finally got some good news yesterday!

[akirby]

3 hours ago, 4thTimer said:

None of which would be required if the vehicle were picked up at the factory. 

You would still have to inspect/repair/adjust some things and install any factory supplied dealer installed accessories.

 

It also requires staff at every plant and office space to do the paperwork.  It’s not as simple as drive to the plant, get the keys and drive away.