paintguy Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: The back pay part isn’t very common but I personally know 1 person who got that deal. I've known back pay to happen as well. Deals are made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintguy Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said: If Google Maps can be believed, it looks like the steel that was once up is now gone,,,,, https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/01/05/508287656/canceled-ford-plant-adds-to-mexicos-economic-frustrations HRG With Google, I've seen many images that are years old. Know from several sites near me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcseds Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Did I read that right from Ford? Six digit incomes within four years? Wow. Just wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, akirby said: If anything this situation will make it impossible for the UAW to organize any of these other plants. He is delusional. What an incredibly obtuse statement by Fain. I absolutely would not want him negotiating for me. Bill Ford has more money than he knows what to do with so if Ford closed today he is going to be ok, but his name is on the door and I can assure you that he wants to see the company succeed along with those that work there. Corporate greed is a cop out statement as if Ford is some monolithic entity consuming all the resources and leaving the peons with nothing. So who actually benefits from the supposed greed? It’s not like one person gets to keep all the profit. What an F’n clown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, akirby said: I live in the South and those jobs are golden tickets to the people who live in those areas. They do not want all this strike drama nor do they want to risk these companies closing up shop and going back to Japan, Korea and Germany. They are happy being at will employees. That’s what the UAW can’t comprehend. I remember a decade or so ago when VW, due to pressure by the union reps on the VW Board (it's a thing in Germany), tried to force unionization on its American plants. The workers overwhelmingly rejected the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 29 minutes ago, Gurgeh said: I remember a decade or so ago when VW, due to pressure by the union reps on the VW Board (it's a thing in Germany), tried to force unionization on its American plants. The workers overwhelmingly rejected the effort. That was more due to the incompetence of UAW leadership at the time and IIRC the margin got closer with each successive vote with Skilled Trades eventually voting in favor of UAW representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) If you look at Bill Ford’s commitment to USA manufacturing, it’s like the UAW is using that against him and Ford….. Edited October 17, 2023 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: If you look at Bill Ford’s commitment to USA manufacturing, it’s like the UAW is using that against him and Ford….. Agreed, and likely to their detriment if they continue on their course. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 So how long till Ford Locks out the UAW? End of the week? end of the month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 8 hours ago, tbone said: This is starting to feel like when Hostess shut down in 2012 because they couldn’t come to an agreement with the union. It’s not an exact parallel because Hostess was in a more dire financial position, but they told the union they would shut down if they did not reach an agreement, and that’s what happened. Ford may not shut down, but they might be forced to do things drastically different than today, which will be a sad day for me and all those involved. I used to work for Hostess two decades before when a wholesale bakery of that scale was damn near a license to print money. But believe it or not, inept management managed to (on paper at least) run Hostess in to bankruptcy. The union struck bakeries that Hostess was going to close anyways, and they'd already given Hostess so many concessions that the jobs weren't worth keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: So how long till Ford Locks out the UAW? End of the week? end of the month? Equally, how long until the UAW or its members realise that there’s no more to be gained on the contract and it’s now how long they are prepared to be out of work on $500/week. Somethings gotta give…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, jpd80 said: Equally, how long until the UAW or its members realise that there’s no more to be gained on the contract and it’s now how long they are prepared to be out of work on $500/week. Somethings gotta give…… There’s a sizable contingent that does not care. They want what was given up in 2008, period. I don’t feel like going through the effort of blurring names and it’s not worth the hassle anyway but I wish I could post a screenshot of a Facebook comment thread I just glanced through. I’ll sum it up best I can. OP is basically where I’m at in thinking the current offer is good enough to vote yes to, and there’s about 40 comments ripping the guy to shreds, the vast majority saying 30% raises or it’s an automatic “no” vote. The pension for all crowd makes a strong appearance. There’s several that want 40% right off the top. I really hope the silent majority is closer to where I’m at in all of this or we’re probably screwed and I should be open to a career change. Edited October 17, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: There’s a sizable contingent that does not care. They want what was given up in 2008, period. I don’t feel like going through the effort of blurring names and it’s not worth the hassle anyway but I wish I could post a screenshot of a Facebook comment thread I just glanced through. I’ll sum it up best I can. OP is basically where I’m at in thinking the current offer is good enough to vote yes to, and there’s about 40 comments ripping the guy to shreds, the vast majority saying 30% raises or it’s an automatic “no” vote. The pension for all crowd makes a strong appearance. There’s several that want 40% right off the top. I really hope the silent majority is closer to where I’m at in all of this or we’re probably screwed and I should be open to a career change. The problem with social media (and well the internet in general) is that the extreme fringes always seem to come out the wood work. I'm not sure how your facebook groups are setup, but i'd wonder how many of the people are actually real people and not bots or burner accounts to make things like pension seem like they are more important then they are... People will learn to care very quickly when they don't have money coming in to cover their expenses and they lose their house or car because of missed payments. If this strike drags on for months, EVERYONE is fucked. The cascade effect is going to start picking up steam the longer this goes on with suppliers closing etc. If Ford needs to start the lockout to inflict pain/pressure on the UAW so that mediation starts sooner then later, maybe that is best course of action for everyone. Even though the US government seems useless at times, I don't think they want a chunk of its manufacturing capacity to move to Mexico if it doesn't have to either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 hours ago, silvrsvt said: The problem with social media (and well the internet in general) is that the extreme fringes always seem to come out the wood work. I'm not sure how your facebook groups are setup, but i'd wonder how many of the people are actually real people and not bots or burner accounts to make things like pension seem like they are more important then they are... No bots. All are both current and former Ford employees, but not necessarily MAP employees 2 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Even though the US government seems useless at times, I don't think they want a chunk of its manufacturing capacity to move to Mexico if it doesn't have to either. You’re not wrong but after that big display Biden put on the at the picket line there’s no good way for him out of this politically speaking. He’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. It could go down as one of the biggest political missteps ever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Fain: 'It’s Not The UAW And Ford Against Foreign Automakers. It’s Autoworkers Everywhere Against Corporate Greed.' UAW President Shawn Fain responded to Ford’s remarks with this statement: “Bill Ford knows exactly how to settle this strike. ... He should call up Jim Farley, tell him to stop playing games and get a deal done. “It’s not the UAW and Ford against foreign automakers. It’s autoworkers everywhere against corporate greed. If Ford wants to be the all-American auto company, they can pay all-American wages and benefits. Workers at Tesla, Toyota, Honda, and others are not the enemy — they’re the UAW members of the future.” Wow he is truly delusional Has the UAW actually successfully unionized an auto plant in the past 30-40 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 At this point just fucking lock out the plants and force the issue. There is no way of fixing this by being nice to them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 https://www.wxyz.com/news/ford-motor-co-announces-shareholder-dividend-for-the-fourth-quarter Talk about tone deaf. I get they have to pay a dividend but why announce that less than a week after telling the union they’re tapped out on what they can pay for the next contract? There’s got to be some legal reason for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: https://www.wxyz.com/news/ford-motor-co-announces-shareholder-dividend-for-the-fourth-quarter Talk about tone deaf. I get they have to pay a dividend but why announce that less than a week after telling the union they’re tapped out on what they can pay for the next contract? There’s got to be some legal reason for it. Yeah it has to be announced at least 30 days before its paid out https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/102714/how-and-when-are-stock-dividends-paid-out.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) I found the following after searching for information on the property status. I haven't been able to find any more recent information. If the status is unchanged then perhaps Ford could get the property back to resume construction since all the initial infrastructure work was completed. Companies Show Interest in Property that Ford Returned to San Luis Potosi Government – October 25, 2018 https://mexico-now.com/companies-show-interest-in-property-that-ford-returned-to-san-luis-potosi-government/ Just a few days after Mexico, the United States and Canada reached a new trade agreement, some companies showed interested in settling in the property that Ford returned to the government of San Luis Potosi, revealed the head of the state’s Economic Development Secretariat (Sedeco), Gustavo Puente Orozco, who added that they seek to accommodate a project from a world class company. “There is the possibility of attracting a large investment,” the official said to local media during a conference. “We must be patient. We have to wait until December when the new federal government takes over to work hand in hand with them to promote that land. We must look for a world-class project,” he added. It was almost two years ago that Ford Motor Company decided to reverse its plan to install an assembly plant in San Luis Potosi. In addition to paying a millionaire compensation, the Dearborn automaker also returned to the state a 280-hectare land that had been donated. The official said that the property is fully equipped, it has water supply, electric power and a natural gas pipeline. It lacks of a railroad spur line, but “it can be done in case the company that arrives requests it,” he said. Edited October 17, 2023 by ice-capades Additional Content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hllywd Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/13/2023 at 12:46 PM, fuzzymoomoo said: You bring up a great point. I’m glad I’m starting my apprenticeship now so my kids will be able to see the sacrifices I’m making to provide for them, at least the older two. The youngest being 3 probably won’t understand until I’m nearly finished. I hope, for your sake fuzzy, that they do realize the sacrifices you are making. I passed apprenticeship test in 2002. Wasn't brought into apprenticeship until 2014. Skilled Trade Coordinator said in our orientation that statistically half of us who were married at the start of apprenticeship would not remain married by the end. Went home and told my wife and we both laughed. We had been together for nearly 20 years at that point and her father retired from my plant. But then her father died, she got used to me not being there and decided that she didn't want to stay married. My kids were teenagers then and accused me of choosing my job over my family. I truly hope (and pray) that you have a better experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, hllywd said: I hope, for your sake fuzzy, that they do realize the sacrifices you are making. I passed apprenticeship test in 2002. Wasn't brought into apprenticeship until 2014. Skilled Trade Coordinator said in our orientation that statistically half of us who were married at the start of apprenticeship would not remain married by the end. Went home and told my wife and we both laughed. We had been together for nearly 20 years at that point and her father retired from my plant. But then her father died, she got used to me not being there and decided that she didn't want to stay married. My kids were teenagers then and accused me of choosing my job over my family. I truly hope (and pray) that you have a better experience. She knows what’s at stake and we have the same vision for the future. Sacrifice now, buy a homestead in the next 2(ish) years and start a business. It’s going to be tough but the goal is to set the kids up for the future and that’s well worth the challenge. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hllywd Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/15/2023 at 12:21 AM, fuzzymoomoo said: Im liable to punch the next person that says that word to my face. I’m tired of hearing that and hold the line. So much so, I don’t ever want to hear the song Hold the Line by Toto ever again for the rest of my life. Same here. The people screaming solidarity the loudest are the same who were all about themselves before the strike. There's a woman here sleeping with bosses who's now calling out everyone in her department for working overtime. Another dude was a former union rep who got voted out. When he signed up for overtime (pre-strike), he thought his seniority should dictate what job he got to do. When you sign up for overtime you go to the open job. And a partner in trades doesn't get along with ANYONE. She runs to the bosses. She's calls people pieces of $h!t and a$$holes, then complains she's being disrespected. Didn't matter to any of these people that they did whatever suited themselves best before the strike but now they're hollering "solidarity" from the rooftops. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hllywd Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 10:23 AM, fuzzymoomoo said: I get the feeling the stuff that remains to be settled is the stuff there’s no way on god’s green earth the company is going to agree to like pensions for all, post-retirement health care and the battery plant representation issue. My thoughts exactly... and why I hope this goes to arbitration and soon. The younger generation here is getting greedy (in my opinion)... they want to blame everything on legacy employees (rather than corrupt UAW who went to prison) and they say they'll vote no if we DON'T GET EVERYTHING! Clearly they don't understand that negotiation is a two-way street and nobody EVER gets everything. But they outnumber us now so they can vote down any agreement. Seems like we've gotten a majority of what we were looking for and haven't seen any concessions. Take the win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hllywd Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 1:10 PM, fuzzymoomoo said: The back pay part isn’t very common but I personally know 1 person who got that deal. I personally know someone that's happened to 5 times! Dude hired in before me, got fired five times, got rehired every time and still has more seniority than me. As I've stated previously, I was older when I hired in and had "real jobs" where the stuff we see everyday would not have been accepted. Everywhere outside the plant, you play stupid games you're basically told "your services are no longer required". Here they get a free vacation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hllywd Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 4:49 PM, fuzzymoomoo said: Just one, really, and he’s got the masses brainwashed. You should see some of the vitriol directed at Bill Ford after todays speech in the Facebook groups. There’s no hope of this ending without arbitration. I've stopped going down that rabbit hole. I go for the information but skip the comment section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.