tbone Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 On 1/5/2024 at 11:01 PM, akirby said: Something that is widely available without much differentiation between competitors which causes mfrs to lower prices to get more sales. Like midsized family sedans. It’s funny how Hyundai manages to build multiple similar vehicles, which most likely would be considered commodities, yet still manages to make a profit. I personally wouldn’t consider the Edge a commodity, as its price point is not consistent with cheap vehicles. What are they going to do when they start building these two EVs and only a few people are interested in buying them? I think Ford is in a precarious situation with the potential to not have enough of the right types of vehicles to sell. The next year is going to be interesting to see how this situation evolves. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 7 hours ago, tbone said: It’s funny how Hyundai manages to build multiple similar vehicles, which most likely would be considered commodities, yet still manages to make a profit. I personally wouldn’t consider the Edge a commodity, as its price point is not consistent with cheap vehicles. What are they going to do when they start building these two EVs and only a few people are interested in buying them? I think Ford is in a precarious situation with the potential to not have enough of the right types of vehicles to sell. The next year is going to be interesting to see how this situation evolves. Commodity isn’t necessarily cheap. It just means people shop mainly on price and won’t pay a premium for any particular model. But I agree Edge isn’t necessarily a commodity just a victim of circumstance for BEV production. As for Hyundai - their platform costs are lower and they have a lot more global sales to amortize costs. The Asian brands have done a great job minimizing costs on their car platforms. Last I checked they were still only running about a 4% profit margin in NA. If you’re dealing in a mostly commodity market you need low costs and high volume to make a decent profit. If Ford can easily sell over 2 million vehicles at a 10% margin why bother with sedans? The best case for bringing Evos is having spare capacity in a Mexico C2 plant. Can’t build it in the U.S. - labor costs are too high. And unfortunately any spare capacity in Hermosillo needs to go to more Mavericks and Bronco Sports. Maybe they can move 2nd Gen Mach-E to Oakville and convert Cuatitlan to C2 production with a revised Escape and Edge and Evos. Freeing up Louisville for Corsair and Nautilus. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: Commodity isn’t necessarily cheap. It just means people shop mainly on price and won’t pay a premium for any particular model. But I agree Edge isn’t necessarily a commodity just a victim of circumstance for BEV production. As for Hyundai - their platform costs are lower and they have a lot more global sales to amortize costs. The Asian brands have done a great job minimizing costs on their car platforms. Last I checked they were still only running about a 4% profit margin in NA. If you’re dealing in a mostly commodity market you need low costs and high volume to make a decent profit. If Ford can easily sell over 2 million vehicles at a 10% margin why bother with sedans? The best case for bringing Evos is having spare capacity in a Mexico C2 plant. Can’t build it in the U.S. - labor costs are too high. And unfortunately any spare capacity in Hermosillo needs to go to more Mavericks and Bronco Sports. Maybe they can move 2nd Gen Mach-E to Oakville and convert Cuatitlan to C2 production with a revised Escape and Edge and Evos. Freeing up Louisville for Corsair and Nautilus. Unfortunately the new UAW contract makes it even harder to build affordable vehicles in the US and make a profit. All affordable vehicle production needs to go to Mexico. Your ideas are good. Edited January 7 by 2005Explorer 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 2 hours ago, 2005Explorer said: Unfortunately the new UAW contract makes it even harder to build affordable vehicles in the US and make a profit. All affordable vehicle production needs to go to Mexico. Your ideas are good. This, I'm not against paying workers a fair wage, they deserve it. But businesses need to turn a profit at the end of the day to stay alive. It's hard to make a sub 20k car when your workers want to be paid 6 figures or close to it. I'm genuinely curious what the profit margin is on the maverick, what it was back when the hybrid was standard especially. I'm willing to bet that the 2022 mavericks had little to no profit margin. That's obviously changed now with the price increases which made the maverick more profitable, but less appealing imo. Edited January 7 by DeluxeStang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 41 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: This, I'm not against paying workers a fair wage, they deserve it. But businesses need to turn a profit at the end of the day to stay alive. It's hard to make a sub 20k car when your workers want to be paid 6 figures or close to it. I'm genuinely curious what the profit margin is on the maverick, what it was back when the hybrid was standard especially. I'm willing to bet that the 2022 mavericks had little to no profit margin. That's obviously changed now with the price increases which made the maverick more profitable, but less appealing imo. Maverick has almost no competition. There is no way they didn’t price it with a healthy profit margin and they haven’t had to add rebates. 5% on a $20k vehicle is only $1k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 hours ago, 2005Explorer said: Unfortunately the new UAW contract makes it even harder to build affordable vehicles in the US and make a profit. All affordable vehicle production needs to go to Mexico. Your ideas are good. I agree on both points, though I would probably edit out the qualifier "affordable" in the first sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 On 1/7/2024 at 2:04 AM, tbone said: It’s funny how Hyundai manages to build multiple similar vehicles, which most likely would be considered commodities, yet still manages to make a profit. I personally wouldn’t consider the Edge a commodity, as its price point is not consistent with cheap vehicles. What are they going to do when they start building these two EVs and only a few people are interested in buying them? I think Ford is in a precarious situation with the potential to not have enough of the right types of vehicles to sell. The next year is going to be interesting to see how this situation evolves. VERY interesting to say the least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 12 hours ago, Oacjay98 said: VERY interesting to say the least! I wanted to mention that I had to turn in my Chevy Traverse work car and they replaced it with an Edge SEL AWD. It’s likely an interim vehicle that will later be replaced with hopefully an Explorer. So for now I have the Mach E and the Edge. It was nice to kick the Chevy out of the driveway, and have a full compliment of Fords again, lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 6 hours ago, tbone said: I wanted to mention that I had to turn in my Chevy Traverse work car and they replaced it with an Edge SEL AWD. It’s likely an interim vehicle that will later be replaced with hopefully an Explorer. So for now I have the Mach E and the Edge. It was nice to kick the Chevy out of the driveway, and have a full compliment of Fords again, lol. Lol good riddance to the Chevy forsure! So how do the edge and mach e compare. Farley says the Mach e is way better than the commoditized Edge as he calls it. Do you agree that the Mach e is way better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said: .... Do you agree that the Mach e is way better? It would be a LOT better if someone put a Coyote in it 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 7 hours ago, Oacjay98 said: Lol good riddance to the Chevy forsure! So how do the edge and mach e compare. Farley says the Mach e is way better than the commoditized Edge as he calls it. Do you agree that the Mach e is way better? Give me a week in it and l’ll report back my thoughts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 hours ago, tbone said: Give me a week in it and l’ll report back my thoughts. Ok awesome thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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