Ford considering the return of low slung car models

[DeluxeStang]

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/ford-is-open-to-low-slung-evs-for-the-future-despite-killing-hatchbacks/

 

If they're thinking about bringing back car form factors for Europe, I hope that means they'll make a return to the U.S. as well. I agree with his comments, they need to be iconic models, not commodity. 

 

Having a low slung escort cosworth, and a RS 200 as EVs would be pretty neat. 

[Dequindre]

If there was ever an opportunity to bring back a Lincoln model that excites Lincoln enthusiasts, this would be it!

[Ares]

34 minutes ago, Dequindre said:

If there was ever an opportunity to bring back a Lincoln model that excites Lincoln enthusiasts, this would be it!

[AM222]

11 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/ford-is-open-to-low-slung-evs-for-the-future-despite-killing-hatchbacks/

 

If they're thinking about bringing back car form factors for Europe, I hope that means they'll make a return to the U.S. as well. I agree with his comments, they need to be iconic models, not commodity. 

Add style to anything Ford considers a "commodity" product, and it will be an attainable aspirational/desirable car. Ford's current "Icon" models didn't start as icons.

The Escape with its jellybean shape for example looked bland and dated compared to its competitors when it was launched for the 2020 model year.
This is a case of Ford not trying hard enough. 


In late 2021, Ford China unveiled the Equator Sport aka next gen Territory. Despite being a lower model, its design language (which was done with the help of Ford Australia) literally looks a generation ahead of the Escape.

Same can be said about the Tourneo Courier. Adding style to even a B-segment MPV/Van can make it look attractive. 

Imagine Ford applying this philosophy to new versions of the Focus and Escape (instead of killing them).

Ford can't just limit themselves to icons like the Mustang, Bronco and F-series. 

Edited May 1 by AM222

[sullynd]

I don’t see myself ever owning a sedan, but one of the things that always amazes me is how tall cars have gotten. Take any modern car and put it next to a late eighties, early nineties car and the modern car may as well be an SUV. My high school dream cars were the F150 Flareside, and the 92 Firebird. The 92 Firebird looks practically exotic size-wise nowadays.  The new Accord seems to be bucking the trend. It looks (at least proportionately) more sleek. 

[twintornados]

I would love to get back into a sedan....c'mon Ford (or Lincoln) give us a sedan.

[akirby]

15 hours ago, AM222 said:

Add style to anything Ford considers a "commodity" product, and it will be an attainable aspirational/desirable car. 

That doesn’t make it profitable though if 80% of buyers are buying on price alone.  The 2013 Fusion was best in class in looks and every measurable metric except fuel economy.  AWD, hybrid, PHEV, Titanium trims.  Know what 80% of buyers bought?  $24K fwd SE models with $3K rebates.  And Ford’s platform costs were much higher than Nissan and Kia and Toyota.  It’s not the vehicles it’s the market and those buyers aren’t going to pay a premium so you have to have a super low cost and be willing to live with small margins.

[AM222]

8 hours ago, akirby said:

That doesn’t make it profitable though if 80% of buyers are buying on price alone.  The 2013 Fusion was best in class in looks and every measurable metric except fuel economy.  AWD, hybrid, PHEV, Titanium trims.  Know what 80% of buyers bought?  $24K fwd SE models with $3K rebates.  And Ford’s platform costs were much higher than Nissan and Kia and Toyota.  It’s not the vehicles it’s the market and those buyers aren’t going to pay a premium so you have to have a super low cost and be willing to live with small margins.

Ford's platform doesn't necessarily cost more, it's the fact that Ford tries to make a profit out of a model it sells in very limited markets. Nissan, Hyundai-Kia and Toyota have platforms used in global models. The development cost of a platform is spread to all units sold around the world.  

The "One Ford" concept was smart, but it only works when you have a class leading car to begin with. The "One Ford" Mk3 Focus for example had new tech but its problematic PowerShift transmission practically killed the model outside Europe, aside from that, its sleeker shape made it feel more cramped than the Mk2 model it replaced (the Mk3 was derived from the Mk2).

Ford will have a hard time when it realizes its plan for a US-centric lineup of "Icon" models will only end up as low-volume premium niche models outside the USA and Canada.   

Again, what Ford considers "commodity" products belong to profitable high-volume segments common outside the US and Canada.  

In the past Ford of Europe and Ford Asia-Pacific (Mazda/ Ford Australia) took care of Ford's survival in most markets outside North America, now many of those models have been killed-off or will be killed-off. Curious to see the sales and profits of Ford of Europe after 2025 when the Focus and Kuga are supposedly planned to leave without any immediate direct replacements. 

Ford is doing fine with the upper half of its vehicle range which include premium "Icon" models. It's the lower half that's endangered, what normal people around the world buy.
 

Edited May 2 by AM222

[AM222]

12 hours ago, twintornados said:

I would love to get back into a sedan....c'mon Ford (or Lincoln) give us a sedan.

The interesting thing is Ford has them in China, they just don't export them, well except for the Mondeo which is exported to the Middle East as the new Taurus. 

The two mid-size sedan platform-mates of the all-new Nautilus.
Ford Mondeo aka Taurus


Lincoln Zephyr


 

Edited May 2 by AM222

[twintornados]

4 minutes ago, AM222 said:

The interesting thing is Ford has them, meet the two mid-size sedan platform-mates of the all-new Nautilus.
Ford Mondeo/ Taurus


Lincoln Zephyr


So far, only the Mondeo is exported to the Middle East where it is known as the Taurus.

 

Yup...saw these two before...would love to buy either one...and both would fit in the Flat Rock Assembly plant with no issue.

Edited May 2 by twintornados

[sullynd]

Are the Toyota and Hondas truly world cars?

 

How many markets are the Camry and Accord sold in?  In the past, at least, the Civic was a NA specific model. 

[AM222]

1 hour ago, sullynd said:

Are the Toyota and Hondas truly world cars?

 

How many markets are the Camry and Accord sold in?  In the past, at least, the Civic was a NA specific model. 

Outside of North America, the Camry is sold in most of the Asia-Pacific region, Middle East, and Europe.
Outside of North America, the Accord is sold in select markets in the Asia-Pacific region (including Japan), and the Middle East
Outside of North America, the Civic is sold in most of the Asia-Pacific region (including Japan), Middle East, Europe and South America

Toyota Camry (UK spec)


Honda Civic (German spec)


Obviously not all Toyotas and Hondas are sold globally but many models like the C-segment cars, crossovers and SUVs are sold in most global markets including North America.

Some B-segment models are only sold in Asia-Pacific, Middle East and Europe. The Civic-based Honda HR-V sold in the US is known elsewhere as the ZR-V. The real HR-V is a slightly smaller (better looking) B-segment CUV.

Edited May 2 by AM222

[brucelinc]

I will be very interested to see if and how the market responds to the upcoming Charger...a BIG non-SUV available in both 2 and 4 door models.    The electric version won't be much of a test since people seem to either want EVs or hate them.   The ICE versions in 2025 will be unlike about anything else in the marketplace.

[akirby]

4 hours ago, AM222 said:

Ford's platform doesn't necessarily cost more, it's the fact that Ford tries to make a profit out of a model it sells in very limited markets. Nissan, Hyundai-Kia and Toyota have platforms used in global models. The development cost of a platform is spread to all units sold around the world.  

Again, what Ford considers "commodity" products belong to profitable high-volume segments common outside the US and Canada.  
 

CD4 was super expensive compared to the Camry platform e.g.  It was overengineered and only used on 3 vehicles - Fusion/mkz, edge/mkx/nautilus and continental.  Camry soldiered on with an old I4 and old V6 (which were perfectly fine) while Ford added new ecoboost engines to the platform - 2.0, 1.6, 1.5, 2.7, 3.0.  That’s why it was expensive by comparison.

 

I understand you’re frustrated with Ford’s lack of products in rest of world and I agree that Ford could have a more cost efficient global platform in C2 and in doing so they could generate modest profits on cars.

 

However - to build new global cars requires resources that Ford has already allocated to existing and new products.  When you start calculating the cost to hire designers, testers, engineers and marketers and the cost to build a new factory vs the modest profit expected from these vehicles then the business case falls apart.  
 

I’ve said repeatedly that Ford blew it when they allowed Europe and NA to do their own thing.  A global C2 platform should have been used for all B, C and CD vehicles starting in 2012 with hybrids and fewer powertrains.  But they didn’t so we’re stuck with those consequences.
 

Or look at it from this standpoint (in North America) - which existing or new product including EVs would you kill to build new cars?  It’s never as simple as can we make a profit.  

[Andrew L]

4 hours ago, AM222 said:

The interesting thing is Ford has them in China, they just don't export them, well except for the Mondeo which is exported to the Middle East as the new Taurus. 

The two mid-size sedan platform-mates of the all-new Nautilus.
Ford Mondeo aka Taurus


Lincoln Zephyr


 

 

The only thing I would change on the Zephyr is the 3rd window I wish it went straight down like the 2013-2020 MKZ.  Otherwise they share the same 3rd window shape.

 

Also if they ever did bring the Zephyr over IMO it would need more than just the 2.0 to compete.  It would need a Hybrid or Plugin hybrid option and at least a V6 option as well.  Preferably the 3.0.

 

The Mondeo/Taurus on the other hand looks great and I love what they did with the tail lights.

 

Does anyone else thing the current Accord's tail lights look really similar to the Zephyr?

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, AM222 said:

The interesting thing is Ford has them in China, they just don't export them, well except for the Mondeo which is exported to the Middle East as the new Taurus. 

The two mid-size sedan platform-mates of the all-new Nautilus.
Ford Mondeo aka Taurus


Lincoln Zephyr


 

Edited May 2 by DeluxeStang

[DeluxeStang]

Let's remember guys, while Ford said they were thinking about bringing back cars, they also said they wanted to avoid commodity products, and focus more on creating icons, things people will lust after and find desirable. 

 

Which is why I proposed something like a new rs200. Imagine something electric, AWD, with maybe around 300 hp. A way for Ford to get into the small, light sports car market in a way that was uniquely Ford. It would also be so different to the mustang that it would minimize cannibalization between the two models. 

 

If you priced something like that at around 45-50 grand, the profit margins would be fat as hell if this was built on CE1, which is being designed to be profitable at 25-30k. So even if you didn't sell a ton of them, you could make a decent profit. Profitable, minimum investment passion product with decent returns than improves Ford's reputation in enthusiasts circles. That's the kind of product I want to see. 

[Gurgeh]

7 hours ago, AM222 said:

The interesting thing is Ford has them in China, they just don't export them, well except for the Mondeo which is exported to the Middle East as the new Taurus. 

The two mid-size sedan platform-mates of the all-new Nautilus.
Ford Mondeo aka Taurus


Lincoln Zephyr


 

But with 25% tariffs on Chinese assembled vehicles, would Ford make any profit? Probably not. As I've said before, I doubt they are making much profit at all from Nautilus imports, that the decision was more to protect the Lincoln brand which otherwise would have shrunk to just a 3-vehicle line-up. For that reason it might make sense to try out importing the Zephr, to give Lincoln 5 vehicles and an actual luxury sedan (might only be temporary, though, if it doesn't sell any better than the briefly-revived Continental), but bringing in the Mondeo/Taurus through those tariffs would almost certainly be a big money loser.

[akirby]

Not just to protect the brand but also dealers.  If it was profitable they would have decided to import it a couple of years ago.

[stromberg2]

16 hours ago, AM222 said:

The interesting thing is Ford has them in China, they just don't export them, well except for the Mondeo which is exported to the Middle East as the new Taurus. 

The two mid-size sedan platform-mates of the all-new Nautilus.
Ford Mondeo aka Taurus


Lincoln Zephyr


 

I love these two! Bring them here!

[brucelinc]

If they want a low slung icon that people lust after, it should be called "Thunderbird."    A modern version of this:

[sullynd]

I’d consider a sedan if it was a four door Mustang. Especially a BEV AWD one. Call it Mustang, Mustang Falcon, Falcon, Galaxie, or Thunderbird, doesn’t matter to me.