silvrsvt Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 https://fordauthority.com/2024/05/ford-workers-impacted-by-ev-delay-offered-new-placements/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 I wonder if Ford will eventually announce that Oakville will be closed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 minute ago, Trader 10 said: I wonder if Ford will eventually announce that Oakville will be closed. I would expect Flat Rock to close before Oakville. OAC is a much more efficient plant than Flat Rock has ever been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I would expect Flat Rock to close before Oakville. OAC is a much more efficient plant than Flat Rock has ever been. I don't expect either of them to close. Flat Rock may not be the most efficient, but it makes Ford a lot of money like GM's Corvette plant. Closing either of them will be politically toxic and the UAW now has the right to strike the company over plant closings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 11 hours ago, Trader 10 said: I wonder if Ford will eventually announce that Oakville will be closed. If they’re gonna close our plant they should just fuckin close it! Why wait?! They keep changing the plan anyways so why would we trust Ford??? Idling a plant for 3 years is complete and utter bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, Oac98 said: If they’re gonna close our plant they should just fuckin close it! Why wait?! They keep changing the plan anyways so why would we trust Ford??? Idling a plant for 3 years is complete and utter bullshit. They can’t close it they need the capacity. They just got caught out by some incredibly stupid product planning. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, akirby said: They can’t close it they need the capacity. They just got caught out by some incredibly stupid product planning. You’re so right about the poor planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 On 5/17/2024 at 2:38 AM, Oac98 said: You’re so right about the poor planning. I feel for you guys now, hitting the delay button was just the easy decision for Ford as I doubt that Farley really knows what to do now as that could change again by next year. Oakville is such a big plant, it seems like a crime not to build multiple products, particularly when Canada is an export hub for ROW markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: I feel for you guys now, hitting the delay button was just the easy decision for Ford as I doubt that Farley really knows what to do now as that could change again by next year. Oakville is such a big plant, it seems like a crime not to build multiple products, particularly when Canada is an export hub for ROW markets. I’m ok as I’m a veteran worker, it’s the people with the low seniority who are greater affected by this delay. I’m still extremely frustrated with Ford and some of Farleys decisions. I’m almost expecting the plan to change again because that seems to be the norm now. One EV product will not be enough volume for that plant. The Lincoln u760 is up in the air so I know there is only one product right now. From talk of 5 to 1 for now. The union kept saying there is a Ford and a Lincoln then a third product coming like 2028 or later. Ill believe this stuff when and if I actually see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, Oac98 said: I’m ok as I’m a veteran worker, it’s the people with the low seniority who are greater affected by this delay. I’m still extremely frustrated with Ford and some of Farleys decisions. I’m almost expecting the plan to change again because that seems to be the norm now. One EV product will not be enough volume for that plant. The Lincoln u760 is up in the air so I know there is only one product right now. From talk of 5 to 1 for now. The union kept saying there is a Ford and a Lincoln then a third product coming like 2028 or later. I’ll believe this stuff when and if I actually see it. Absolutely true. Honestly, if most people were given the choice, they’d probably pick a next generation Edge over a Mach E simply because the change to BEV is just too much for most buyers. When it comes to three row BEV clinic results, I think the decision was even more clear cut, Ford knew that and with the current battery tech, it was on a hiding to nothing if released, the Tesla X probably covers most of those would be buyers anyway Edited May 18 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Absolutely true. Honestly, if most people were given the choice, they’d probably pick a next generation Edge over a Mach E simply because the change to BEV is just too much for most buyers. When it comes to three row BEV clinic results, I think the decision was even more clear cut, Ford knew that and with the current battery tech, it was on a hiding to nothing if released, the Tesla X probably covers most of those would be buyers anyway It would’ve been great to see a new edge hybrid and nautilus built at OAC as weve said ad nauseum here. I agree with you that ford had to go back to the lab with this u759 mystery product. I suppose they’re playing the long game and all of this is supposed to be for the better. I truly hope it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 On 5/16/2024 at 9:52 AM, akirby said: They can’t close it they need the capacity. They just got caught out by some incredibly stupid product planning. Or do they? Ford has signaled they don’t for the next 3 1/2 years and obviously is unsure if BEV demand will allow the plant to be operated profitably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 27 minutes ago, Trader 10 said: Or do they? Ford has signaled they don’t for the next 3 1/2 years and obviously is unsure if BEV demand will allow the plant to be operated profitably. If BEVs aren’t needed then there are plenty of ICE vehicles that can be built there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 2 hours ago, akirby said: If BEVs aren’t needed then there are plenty of ICE vehicles that can be built there. I agree with you on this point, if Ford would just get busy and develop a new Edge rather than let the plant Sit idle for multiple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 24 Author Share Posted May 24 14 hours ago, Trader 10 said: I agree with you on this point, if Ford would just get busy and develop a new Edge rather than let the plant Sit idle for multiple years. This is the problem, its going to still take at least 24 months or so to spool up production to build something there if they went that route. Then how long does it stay in production? Even with political considerations, the goal is something like 80-90% EVs by 2035. Even if its not mandated at national level, you have 18 or so states, which most of them are in the top ten of car sales, using California's regulations for EVs. So are you going to tool up a product, say a refreshed Edge from China, just to have it go into production roughly the same time the 3 row EVs do, but only be able to sell it for say 8-9 years, if that? They still have to recoup the price of new tooling and other things (depending on how much can be reused). All the while the EV charging and improvements in Range will be still happening and prices should drop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: This is the problem, its going to still take at least 24 months or so to spool up production to build something there if they went that route. Then how long does it stay in production? Even with political considerations, the goal is something like 80-90% EVs by 2035. Even if its not mandated at national level, you have 18 or so states, which most of them are in the top ten of car sales, using California's regulations for EVs. So are you going to tool up a product, say a refreshed Edge from China, just to have it go into production roughly the same time the 3 row EVs do, but only be able to sell it for say 8-9 years, if that? They still have to recoup the price of new tooling and other things (depending on how much can be reused). All the while the EV charging and improvements in Range will be still happening and prices should drop. It was just an incredibly dumb move to have “planned” how they did. They needed a dual approach as things transitioned and let customers decide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 24 Author Share Posted May 24 39 minutes ago, rmc523 said: It was just an incredibly dumb move to have “planned” how they did. They needed a dual approach as things transitioned and let customers decide. Not exactly-the Edge and Nautilus made up about 7% of total FMC sales in 2023. The introduction of the Bronco Sport and Bronco sold roughly double what the Edge and Nautilus did in 2023 when it comes to market share. You could also add the Mach E into that if you wanted to. Also how is the midsize 2 row CUV market doing? It seems like its shrinking IMO-I remember I'd see Muranios and Edges around all the time about 10 years ago and since then the market has shrunk, because I guess people are either getting larger products or going smaller because they are cheaper. Anyways I think the EVs where affected by COVID, which slowed down their introduction then ran head into rapid changes in the market place when it came to EVs-Inflation and the corresponding reaction of raising interest rates which is making people shy away from expensive toys (i.e. Bronco also) and products that might not have a long shelf life with an impact to EVs with new and improved ones-having a product that gets say 50 miles more range then what you have now is going to impact resale if you bought. Its more plateable when your paying no interest or next to no interest on a car to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 (edited) On 5/17/2024 at 12:52 AM, akirby said: They can’t close it they need the capacity. They just got caught out by some incredibly stupid product planning. Never a truer word said. Baked in was Bill Ford’s desire for Ford to becoming a full line electric vehicle maker, we know the story of successive CEOs trying and failing with clarifying product focus to keep profits coming in but also open the door to the future, Ford needs balance. It seems like good crisis actually makes Ford reset and prioritise, they do their best work when the company’s future is on the line and that’s why I hope they make some big changes. Edited May 25 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 On 5/25/2024 at 1:21 AM, jpd80 said: Never a truer word said. Baked in was Bill Ford’s desire for Ford to becoming a full line electric vehicle maker, we know the story of successive CEOs trying and failing with clarifying product focus to keep profits coming in but also open the door to the future, Ford needs balance. It seems like good crisis actually makes Ford reset and prioritise, they do their best work when the company’s future is on the line and that’s why I hope they make some big changes. I certainly hope you’re right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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