Mustang Looking Like Old Gray Mare

[Project-Fairmont]

and lets all be a little honest here, part of the Mustangs appeal is it IS a little rough around the edges..kinda a school yard bully....would be a true shame if they OVER refined it.....leave that to Lexus....beautiful this beautiful that bla blah blah.....and souless

 

I agree with this, however BMW manages a very sporting demeanor with no comprimises in terms of winter comfort and convenince. The interior of an '87 to '93 Mustang is more interesting, and why isn't there seat heaters in a new Mustang? I can live with the rear wheel drive, but not the barbaric ammenites of a Mustang 365 days of the year.

 

BTW, Detriot has yet to figure out (in my experience) seat heaters; they take forever to warm up and then they almost scorch you! BMW, heats up very quick and evenly.

 

Take a Mustang GT from the late eighties; a relitively balanced car that offered, speed, fun, pratciallity (big hatch) and even fuel efficiency. Compare this to a BMW from the same area, like an M3, and hands down a Mustang GT did everything better including comfort.

 

Fast forward to 2006, and while a Mustang GT is still much less costly than an M3, BMW has moved the performance/comfort equation to another level.

 

You have to ask yourself, would you rather spend $30k for a new Mustang GT or $30k for an '04 M3 with 25k miles and a ceritfied warrenty? For me, and I thought I would never say it, but I would through my saddle on an M3...

Edited March 6, 2007 by Project-Fairmont

[Deanh]

I agree with this, however BMW manages a very sporting demeanor with no comprimises in terms of winter comfort and convenince. The interior of an '87 to '93 Mustang is more interesting, and why isn't there seat heaters in a new Mustang? I can live with the rear wheel drive, but not the barbaric ammenites of a Mustang 365 days of the year.

 

BTW, Detriot has yet to figure out (in my experience) seat heaters; they take forever to warm up and then they almost scorch you! BMW, heats up very quick and evenly.

 

Take a Mustang GT from the late eighties; a relitively balanced car that offered, speed, fun, pratciallity (big hatch) and even fuel efficiency. Compare this to a BMW from the same area, like an M3, and hands down a Mustang GT did everything better including comfort.

 

Fast forward to 2006, and while a Mustang GT is still much less costly than an M3, BMW has moved the performance/comfort equation to another level.

 

You have to ask yourself, would you rather spend $30k for a new Mustang GT or $30k for an '04 M3 with 25k miles and a ceritfied warrenty? For me, and I thought I would never say it, but I would through my saddle on an M3...

camparing used and new is moot....I beleive to be fair one has to stick comparing new, the Mustangs product placement seems spot on, and yes for the amount they now charge for the NEW M3 I am pretty sure they could iron out ALL the wrinkles...then the first thread would be " 60,000 dollars for a Mustang with an additional 10 k markup...what is FORD thinking..." The mustang MUST remain close to its roots...bang for the buck...oh and saw a promotion the other day...Cingular or Sprint I beleive...they are throwing in a BMW 3 series if you sign up for a cell phone...LOL!

Edited March 6, 2007 by Deanh

[suv_guy_19]

Here's my problem with the mustang...

 

Why would I spend 30 grand on a heavy 2 door with only 300 horsepower? Or the base model. 210 horsepower? Are you kidding me?!

 

I think the mustang in its current form looks absolutly great, but its a disappointment once you're behind the wheel. Hard crappy plastic everywhere, even on a premium model, uncomfortable seating postion, and on paper, its not that competitive. I'd much rather go for the RX-8 nicer interior, more hp than a v6 mustang, IRS, and is cheaper. Plus, the looks are to die for!

 

The mustang just looks, to me at least, rather cheap despite its good looks. Especially after driving one for awhile. I don't get why FOrd didn't invest more money into the interior and engines. Sure, 300 hp is a nice boost from 260 the previous generation, but when you have an INfiniti G35 coupe with 306 out of a v6 and only costing slightly more than a loaded v8, which one would you choose? Personally, i'd take the infiniti because the coupe is very nice looking and has that quality look and feel to it that the mustang just can't muster up.

 

in the meantime, i'll stick to my Marauder and RX-8...

 

you can keep those two cars, but the mustang is fater than either of them because of good gearing.

[Deanh]

you can keep those two cars, but the mustang is fater than either of them because of good gearing.

AND better on the gas than the Rx8

[NickF1011]

I agree with this, however BMW manages a very sporting demeanor with no comprimises in terms of winter comfort and convenince. The interior of an '87 to '93 Mustang is more interesting, and why isn't there seat heaters in a new Mustang? I can live with the rear wheel drive, but not the barbaric ammenites of a Mustang 365 days of the year.

 

 

I could be mistaken, but I do believe heated seats are an option on '07 Mustangs.

 

And what exactly is so "barbaric" about a car without heated seats anyway? They hardly existed on a single car 10 years ago, but now it is mandatory all the sudden to keep your buns warm in the dead of winter? It's little switches like this that I think are slowly eroding the character of the Mustang.

 

Ford needs to come out with a LARGER coupe, ala Torino/Thunderbird to appease these people (and those of you who are 6'4") so they can keep the Mustang more pure.

Edited March 6, 2007 by NickF1011

[Deanh]

I could be mistaken, but I do believe heated seats are an option on '07 Mustangs.

 

And what exactly is so "barbaric" about a car without heated seats anyway? They hardly existed on a single car 10 years ago, but now it is mandatory all the sudden to keep your buns warm in the dead of winter? It's little switches like this that I think are slowly eroding the character of the Mustang.

 

Ford needs to come out with a LARGER coupe, ala Torino/Thunderbird to appease these people (and those of you who are 6'4") so they can keep the Mustang more pure.

I vote for heated AND a/c'ed shiatzu massage front thrones....sheesh....options do NOT make the car...

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I got a GT in September. The 0% financing and X plan brought the fully loaded GT Premium down to under 27K including tax and title. One of the reasons I puchased the car was it good ecconomy (my previous truck got about 12 combined). It IS faster then the G35 or Z350. Both of which have about the same power/weight and cost MUCH more.

 

Speaking of which, I really wish people would realize the days of a 2800 pound midsized coup are over. Saftey featues, on board computers, AC and other modern amenities are just too heavy. Sure they could make one that weighs 3000 pounds, but it would cost 34k for all the advanced composites and plastics. And the car is still faster then almost any previous production mustang.

 

Its been a cold few months. Who would get a RWD sport coupe in 12 degree weather?

 

While the buzz is all about the new Camero and Challenger (I think the new Camero has the best styling of the three), I am placing my bets that the new king muscle will be the new RWD Hundai V8 coming in two years. Its suposed to put out about 400hp and come with a 30k sticker.

 

Things will get real interesting.

[BlackHorse]

Other cars in the category like..... Oh yeah. There aren't any other cars in its category. The only things that come close are even more expensive entry level luxury coupes. The Mustang isn't overpriced by any stretch of the imagination. The solid sales seem to support that argument.

 

Well you can buy into that line of thinking if you like, but it's not very realistic. Whether we like it or not when people go shopping for a sports car they make comparisons. In most cases those comparisons are arranged something like "I want a sports car that looks good, handles well, is reliable and one I can afford." Now looks and affordable are pretty fluid parameters and change from person to person, but handling and reliability are pretty universal. To that end you can bet that when people consider the Mustang they also consider cars like the Eclipse, Tiburon, WRX, RX8 and even the Mazda Speed 3, a car that is only a hair behind the Mustang GT speed wise but far behind it from a price tag point of view. Heck I'd wager some people even throw the Monte Carlo SS in the mix. So this notion that there are no cars in the Mustang category and hence it can't be compared to anything might work for you, but in the real world of buying cars people don't approach it from that point of view. By the way, isn't the GTO the same sort of car as the Mustang? Pretty sure that it is. Like the Mustang, it too was overpriced. Finally, if you seriously want to compare a Mustang to expensive luxury coupes, well, I just don't see how you get there with that cheap Mustang interior.

[Michael Reynolds]

I'd take a Mustang GT any day of the week over an RX-8. I don't even want to start in on that heap............

[NickF1011]

Well you can buy into that line of thinking if you like, but it's not very realistic. Whether we like it or not when people go shopping for a sports car they make comparisons. In most cases those comparisons are arranged something like "I want a sports car that looks good, handles well, is reliable and one I can afford." Now looks and affordable are pretty fluid parameters and change from person to person, but handling and reliability are pretty universal. To that end you can bet that when people consider the Mustang they also consider cars like the Eclipse, Tiburon, WRX, RX8 and even the Mazda Speed 3, a car that is only a hair behind the Mustang GT speed wise but far behind it from a price tag point of view. Heck I'd wager some people even throw the Monte Carlo SS in the mix. So this notion that there are no cars in the Mustang category and hence it can't be compared to anything might work for you, but in the real world of buying cars people don't approach it from that point of view. By the way, isn't the GTO the same sort of car as the Mustang? Pretty sure that it is. Like the Mustang, it too was overpriced. Finally, if you seriously want to compare a Mustang to expensive luxury coupes, well, I just don't see how you get there with that cheap Mustang interior.

 

The fact that the Mustang outsells all of those other cars you mentioned points to the fact that they aren't really direct competitors. The Mustang still offers about the best balance of power, handling, and braking you're going to find for the price. Contrary to what people may be claiming on here, your average Mustang GT is NOT selling for $40,000. It's more in the range of $28-30K. Your comment about the GTO is just silly, as it has already been cancelled (although you can actually find one for a pretty good price as there are a couple thousand leftovers still around).

 

As for my comparison to entry level luxury sport coupes, you're going to be paying less for a Mustang GT than you will for those luxury cars precisely BECAUSE of things like the interior. You're not going to get a luxury car with 300+ horsepower for under 30 grand. It just doesn't work that way anymore. The AVERAGE car now costs over $26,000. For the price of the Mustang, you're obviously going to make sacrifices in some areas to get that power.

[Deanh]

Well you can buy into that line of thinking if you like, but it's not very realistic. Whether we like it or not when people go shopping for a sports car they make comparisons. In most cases those comparisons are arranged something like "I want a sports car that looks good, handles well, is reliable and one I can afford." Now looks and affordable are pretty fluid parameters and change from person to person, but handling and reliability are pretty universal. To that end you can bet that when people consider the Mustang they also consider cars like the Eclipse, Tiburon, WRX, RX8 and even the Mazda Speed 3, a car that is only a hair behind the Mustang GT speed wise but far behind it from a price tag point of view. Heck I'd wager some people even throw the Monte Carlo SS in the mix. So this notion that there are no cars in the Mustang category and hence it can't be compared to anything might work for you, but in the real world of buying cars people don't approach it from that point of view. By the way, isn't the GTO the same sort of car as the Mustang? Pretty sure that it is. Like the Mustang, it too was overpriced. Finally, if you seriously want to compare a Mustang to expensive luxury coupes, well, I just don't see how you get there with that cheap Mustang interior.

2 door....coupe...rear wheel drive....V8...none of the cars mentioned are even close....Jeez...TIBURON...which bar are you at? LOL! Said vehicles are aimed at slightly different market...can we say huge wings, stupid thumping stereos, coke can exhausts, gelled hair, Nicolas Cage and gauges stacked on the A pillar....

[Edstock]

"coke can exhausts"

 

Nah — they gotta be Folgers-size at least.

[atomaro]

AND better on the gas than the Rx8

 

 

Not to mention the inherent oil consumption of the rotary.

[Deanh]

"coke can exhausts"

 

Nah — they gotta be Folgers-size at least.

funny, I read that as Fosters and my eyes lit up...hahaha

[kevinb120]

Headline is stupid, article is a joke.

 

Other than that, I was pleased with it, and felt that they weren't trying to drum up hysteria on a slow news day at all.

 

 

Agree 100%. Why everyone is so upset about what some dumb lazy shit at yahoo.com says boggles me. Someone spent 10 minutes on the internet and wrote that 'article'. How's the solara (not) selling, why don't they mention that turd? They are also comparing it to non-existent vehicles? A coupe that sells 160k after 25 years with no platform change, sells 166k the next year, and slips only 8% in it's third year(after some people waited 20 years for the 05-type model. No shit its going to go down a bit. Look at the numbers for every single new body revision and you will see the exact same trend. Jeeze they act like its a sales flop like a Solara or Eclipse...Accord coupes aren't flying off the shelves either. I'd bet all coupe sales are down from last year.

 

The Mustang IS the coupe market from 20-35k. If this was a relevant story, the lazy reporter would get statistics of every single mid-size coupe compared to last year. It should also be mentioned Ford continues to reduce sales to rental fleets. Something tells me Solaras, Eclipses, Accord coupes, and Sebrings sales numbers are not great. They need to compare the complete market gains/losses across the class, get and exact figure for any reduction of fleet/rental sales of Mustangs to determine if the retail sales have declined at all in the first place. Then look all of the other generations' 3rd-year sales figures to determine if this article means jack diddly shit.

 

Actually, you would FIRST have to make a columnist give enough a shit about their job to do anything other then the bare minimum to make themselves look remotely relevant.

Edited March 6, 2007 by kevinb120

[Deanh]

Not to mention the inherent oil consumption of the rotary.

agreed, but I do admire mazda for having the balls to persist with something completely different....

[kevinb120]

agreed, but I do admire mazda for having the balls to persist with something completely different....

 

 

Even if makes it an unpopular car with horrendous resale value? I did love my 93 RX7TT though-that is of course until it caught on fire 10 months after I bought it... If they had put the Mazdaspeed 6 motor in it, it would actually be a car worth shopping.

[Deanh]

Even if makes it an unpopular car with horrendous resale value? I did love my 93 RX7TT though-that is of course until it caught on fire 10 months after I bought it... If they had put the Mazdaspeed 6 motor in it, it would actually be a car worth shopping.

shame isn't it, although the older "rounded Rx's"...gorgeous in my opinion...are NOW fetching good bux...pretty big demand for em...

[BlackHorse]

Like I said guys, like it or not, people consider those cars along with when they start shopping for a sports car. The cars I listed are all roughly in the same price range as the Mustang. Price is the number 1 factor most people consider when buying a car. So while I agree the coke can exhausts can be pretty annoying, it doesn't matter in the wide wide world of selling cars. People will consider the 22 / 23 K mustang V6 and then go drive a WRX in that price range, or an Eclipse as well. Why? It's obvious why, they plan on spending that much on a sports car anyway. Most consumers don't make the gear head distinction of FWD vs RWD. Think about your average Mustang V6 driver. They could just as easily see themselves behind the wheel of an Eclipse (or tiburon). By the way for the record, in 2004 they sold 184 thousand and some change Eclipse cars. In June of 2005 it was 10,621 cars. Those numbers are pretty much the same as the Mustang sales numbers so I don't think they are outselling the Eclipse. I haven't looked up the others, but I absolutely don't doubt that it outsells the WRX. Shall we look at the numbers of the Solstice and Sky? Because I promise you given that it's roughly in the same price range as a Mustang that people consider it as an option to the Mustang. Now personally I wouldn't buy a Solstice, I don't much care for them. But that's me. Other people can and absolutely will put the two head to head, . . . whether we like it or not. Now in all fairness, the Mustang can't be all things to all people right? It can't be the "every" sports car. But in that same line of thought, it's also not the "only" sports car on the market to be sure.

[Deanh]

not sure I agree, after selling the Mustangs for close to 20 years, not once have i heard ANY of the vehicles you mentioned, all I ever heard was Camaro ( now gone ) Corvette, and occasionally dodge's competition...now also gone...not ONCE have I heard All wheel drive, turbo's or Front wheel drive, the potential buyers "hot points " were ALWAYS the same...Rear wheel Drive, sporty TWO door...none of which the vehicles you mentioned pertained too...I think the demographics of the buyers are TOTALLY different,,,granted a few probably did buy something based on Car and drivers holy grail performance specs...but I am guessing a very SMALL percentage...different type of buyer totally...

Edited March 6, 2007 by Deanh

[BlackHorse]

not sure I agree, after selling the Mustangs for close to 20 years, not once have i heard ANY of the vehicles you mentioned, all I ever heard was Camaro ( now gone ) Corvette, and occasionally dodge's competition...now also gone...not ONCE have I heard All wheel drive, turbo's or Front wheel drive, the potential buyers "hot points " were ALWAYS the same...Rear wheel Drive, sporty TWO door...none of which the vehicles you mentioned pertained too...I think the demographics of the buyers are TOTALLY different,,,granted a few probably did buy something based on Car and drivers holy grail performance specs...but I am guessing a very SMALL percentage...different type of buyer totally...

 

Well I can respect your point of view Deanh. I would only ask that you keep in mind that the percentage of people you get to interact with, even if it's a lot, as compared to the overall population of people out there that get into the sports car thing is a fraction of a fraction of a precent. The same is true for me. Having said that, let me just point out that I personally know a couple of guys who have owned Mustangs, one of them owned a Saleen Mustang even, then later purchased so called "other" kinds of sports cars. One purchased a WRX-STI and the other opted for a Miata if you can imagine. So it happens. Usually when I get together with my friends and the conversation turns to sports cars, rarely does it stay limited to just RWD V8 coupes. We end up covering the whole genre. The days of Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge are pretty much over fellas. There's a lot of other players on the field now. That's just the reality of the 21'st century I guess.

[Blue II]

The 450 HP Twin Force will change the demographic and the old gray horse will still be on top. Then throw in the Boss for good measure. Don't fret all is well at the OK corrall.

[Deanh]

Well I can respect your point of view Deanh. I would only ask that you keep in mind that the percentage of people you get to interact with, even if it's a lot, as compared to the overall population of people out there that get into the sports car thing is a fraction of a fraction of a precent. The same is true for me. Having said that, let me just point out that I personally know a couple of guys who have owned Mustangs, one of them owned a Saleen Mustang even, then later purchased so called "other" kinds of sports cars. One purchased a WRX-STI and the other opted for a Miata if you can imagine. So it happens. Usually when I get together with my friends and the conversation turns to sports cars, rarely does it stay limited to just RWD V8 coupes. We end up covering the whole genre. The days of Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge are pretty much over fellas. There's a lot of other players on the field now. That's just the reality of the 21'st century I guess.

Do appreciate what you are saying, some people do change, comfort levels and other areas become more important and certain aspects of the Mustang grow old...ie gas mileage, ride...size, passenger capacity. And that leads more often to a change than anything else...if someone IS shopping for a vehicle and the Mustang IS on the shortlist, none of the aforementioned vehicles offer tha same type of vehicle....TOATLLY different buyer, now if he has had a Stang before he may have decide he wants a change....and Saleens are kinda a joke....not a big fan of the aftermarket leeches he says as he gazes on a Fooze outside his office...ahem. I get purturbed when someone makes more $ on their aftermarket vehicle than the initial car cost...still there is a backside for every seat as they say.

[TStag]

Ford reap what they sow:

 

Consumer (demand)

Europe loves new Mustang, but want's it on a PAG floorpan, with a few upgrades and will pay the Premium.

 

Ford (supply)

"You can't have it, and we will design it with a live axle, screw you" (proving Ford still believe in the any colour as long as it's black principle)

 

Competiton:

Let's sell cars internationally.

[gt5001]

I had an 06 Mustang V6 with the pony package & it was a nice car. My Mustang stable has included a Bullitt & 94 & 96 Cobras. At this point, an SVT Fusion is more my style. So, I traded the 06 Mustang for a MazdaSpeed 6 - which is close to what an SVT Fusion could/should be. The Mazda is an impressive vehicle, has lots of new technology - 4-weheel drive, stability control, turbo, direct injection. Plus, 6-speed manual and airbags everyw everywhere, etc. It's much more drivable, primarly due to the transmission, than the Mustang. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sadly, for the price and technology, the Mustang has become a bit gray.