Mustang Looking Like Old Gray Mare

[silvrsvt]

The 450 HP Twin Force will change the demographic and the old gray horse will still be on top. Then throw in the Boss for good measure. Don't fret all is well at the OK corrall.

 

 

All have to say, is who thought of doing the Twin Force Engine? I personally think its the most exciting new engine coming from Ford in the next couple years. If they can get 20 MPG in a F-150 with it and then have it power the Mustang with 450 HP and use it in other applications....its makes me go wow why didnt I think of it :P

[Deanh]

Huh? Why would the average consumer care what architecture the car is on? And, even if they did, why would Ford re-engineer a whole car just to satisfy a couple of sales overseas? They would never make money in it.

if they exported them live axle wouldn't be a problem, they would still sell like hot cakes....novelty

[Deanh]

I had an 06 Mustang V6 with the pony package & it was a nice car. My Mustang stable has included a Bullitt & 94 & 96 Cobras. At this point, an SVT Fusion is more my style. So, I traded the 06 Mustang for a MazdaSpeed 6 - which is close to what an SVT Fusion could/should be. The Mazda is an impressive vehicle, has lots of new technology - 4-weheel drive, stability control, turbo, direct injection. Plus, 6-speed manual and airbags everyw everywhere, etc. It's much more drivable, primarly due to the transmission, than the Mustang. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sadly, for the price and technology, the Mustang has become a bit gray.

thats like comparing the prom queen with the girl you really want behind the bikeshed...LOL!

[Surgen]

Ford has screwed up Mustang, in January and February they sold 19,836 cars. If they had done it right they could have sold.....

2,697 cars like the Nissan 350Z.

1,185 cars like the Pontiac GTO.

1,878 cars like the Pontiac Solstice.

1,527 cars like the Saturn Sky.

997 cars like the Mazda RX-8.

2,092 cars like the Mazda Miata.

1,656 cars like Hyundai Tiburon.

(Couldn't find Mitsubishi by vehicle line (for Eclipse), but they only sold 19,109 total cars/trucks.)

 

Lets get some perspective guys. 50%+ segment share is hard to do in the automotive industry. And Ford is doing it with a 3 year old 2-door.

[Paul Selby]

and lets all be a little honest here, part of the Mustangs appeal is it IS a little rough around the edges..kinda a school yard bully....would be a true shame if they OVER refined it.....leave that to Lexus....beautiful this beautiful that bla blah blah.....and souless

 

Exactly!! Solid rear axle and all.

[RichardJensen]

Europe loves new Mustang

Talk is cheap.

 

People always want the stuff they can't have.

 

This board is full of people that yearn for this or that putative Ford product, but all they do is talk talk talk. When it comes down to it. They ain't buying.

 

There are dozens of people on this board that were all bellowing for the Ford S-Max a few months back. There was exactly one guy who could afford that product, who would've considered buying it. Everyone else just thought it would be cool to see it at a dealership, I guess. Nobody wanted it for themselves.

 

I see the same thing in this "send the Mustang to Europe" whinging. All it is is "I wish I could see it at a dealership." Those with money for it have already brought it over gray market. The rest of the public just wants something different to stare at, and until Ford can turn gawking into revenue.....

Edited March 7, 2007 by RichardJensen

[BlackHorse]

Ford has screwed up Mustang, in January and February they sold 19,836 cars. If they had done it right they could have sold.....

2,697 cars like the Nissan 350Z.

1,185 cars like the Pontiac GTO.

1,878 cars like the Pontiac Solstice.

1,527 cars like the Saturn Sky.

997 cars like the Mazda RX-8.

2,092 cars like the Mazda Miata.

1,656 cars like Hyundai Tiburon.

(Couldn't find Mitsubishi by vehicle line (for Eclipse), but they only sold 19,109 total cars/trucks.)

 

Lets get some perspective guys. 50%+ segment share is hard to do in the automotive industry. And Ford is doing it with a 3 year old 2-door.

 

Well I hate to be the one to interject reality once again, but I guess I must. First of all most of the Mustangs that sell are V6 model Mustangs, something like 60 some odd percent of the total. When you compare those to a 350Z which typically sells for about 10 to 12 grand more, that's not really a realistic comparison. In fact, aside from the Miata and Tiburon, none of the cars on your list are a realistic comparison for the V6 mustang and the solstice and sky are better compared to the mustang GT models due to the average price being above 26 thousand. To compound matters lets factor in that cars like the Solstice, Sky, and GTO and RX8 are not exactly abundant on the lots. The Sky I believe can only be obtained by means of ordering it. Meanwhile over at the Ford lots it's Mustangs galore. That's going to play a factor by virtue of the fact that Americans hate to wait for anything, even their expensive sports cars. lol

 

Now I'm not trying to make the case that Ford doesn't sell a lot of Mustangs. Sure they do. Toyota sells a lot of Camry's. So what. Wal-Mart sells a lot of toilet paper. You can figure out where I'm going with that.

[Deanh]

on the money Richard...people in Europe are the same as here in wanting something they can't have. They want a vehicle to stand out from the crowd and scream LOOK AT ME! That is besides the true die hard enthusiasts....and imagine a Shelby on the Bahn.....

[RichardJensen]

imagine a Shelby on the Bahn.....

Thanks to the miracle of televised advertising, I can!

 

(Cue Simpsons reference)

 

Damn TV! ruined my imagination, just like it ruined my ability to uhhhhh ummmmm........

[sranger]

First of all, I have a 2005 Mustang GT. I loved the way it looks ( appeals to old farts like me ) After one test drive, I knew I wanted it. It rides better and handles better than any previous Mustang. I would have never bought one without the retro look. I like having a mustang that looks like one from the 60's or 70' but has the safety and reliability of a modern car. A stock GT is faster, with a few exceptions, that almost all of the 60's era muscle cars. Heck a v6 model is as fast or faster than most of the 60's era small block v8 cars. It get much better gas milage as well.

 

A lot of people never figure in safety when making the old vs new comparison...

 

Now, the car have several neagitves:

 

1) The Dash still squeeks and rattles like all previous mustangs...

 

2) The inerior is ok, but still made of cheap looking hard plastics...

 

3) On leather models, the rear seats are vinyl...

 

4) There is little sound or heat insulation in the floor, so it is loud and gets hot...

 

5) The suspension components are POORLY painted ( if any ) and rust very badly unless you sand blast and paint...

 

6) The factory paint has a lot of orange peel...

 

7) It really needs more power to really be fun.....

 

8) The solid axile will hop around on rough pavement, but it really is not as bad as some believe...

 

I solved the 7th problem by adding a Saleen S/C @ 8psi and several other parts. It now makes a little over 500hp. I believe that it is quite impressive that an engine can handle 200 more hp and still be reliable ( must have a good tune ). I also did not like the factory spoiler and replace it with a Shelby duck tail spoiler. I also changed to 18" wheels with much wider tires and a pair of shelby striped painted on ( with sanded clear coat ). There are also a couple of minor suspension upgrades.

 

I would not say mine is show quality, but it is darn close...

 

In all, I have probably spent 40K on the car and it is probably worth no more than 30K ( If that much... )

 

However, what other car can you buy for 40K that has 500hp, can do 0-60 in 4 sec flat, 1/4 mile in low 12's, truly stand out in a crowd and still get about 18mpg city and 20mpg highway?

 

Sure the sales slowed down a little. Did anyone really think the red hot sales of 04-06 were sustainable???

[Surgen]

Now I'm not trying to make the case that Ford doesn't sell a lot of Mustangs. Sure they do. Toyota sells a lot of Camry's. So what. Wal-Mart sells a lot of toilet paper. You can figure out where I'm going with that.

 

What is your point exactly? Your post didn't actually make one.

 

Mine was that Mustang sold as much as the Solstice, Sky, Miata, RX8, GTO, 350Z, Tiburon and Eclipse COMBINED. They're selling as many 2-Door non-premium "Sports Cars" as everyone else combined. I still can't see how anyone could claim Mustang is anything but a spectacular success in the marketplace.

[SVT_MAN]

DETROIT (AP) -- The latest version of Ford's iconic Mustang is appears to be growing old, and back-to-back monthly sales declines to start 2007 have the struggling company a little worried.

 

What a douchebag. Anybody else notice that the FIRST SENTENCE is grammatically incorrect and just doesn't make sense. Pathetic.

 

Now I'm not trying to make the case that Ford doesn't sell a lot of Mustangs. Sure they do. Toyota sells a lot of Camry's. So what. Wal-Mart sells a lot of toilet paper. You can figure out where I'm going with that.

 

If you're implying that Ford sells Mustangs to wipe people's butts, you're incorrect. lol

Edited March 7, 2007 by SVT_MAN

[BlackHorse]

What is your point exactly? Your post didn't actually make one.

 

Mine was that Mustang sold as much as the Solstice, Sky, Miata, RX8, GTO, 350Z, Tiburon and Eclipse COMBINED. They're selling as many 2-Door non-premium "Sports Cars" as everyone else combined. I still can't see how anyone could claim Mustang is anything but a spectacular success in the marketplace.

Oh was that your point? Ok, I'm sorry. See I thought your point was to compare about 12,000 of the 19,000 mustangs that were sold to cars they had no business being compared to such as 350Z's and GTO's and RX8's. Sorry about that.

 

Is the Mustang a good selling car? Yes it is. Is it a great selling car? No it's not, but then no sports car is a great selling car right now.

If you're implying that Ford sells Mustangs to wipe people's butts, you're incorrect.

 

LOL, No not my point at all.

Edited March 7, 2007 by BlackHorse

[CurtisH]

Oh was that your point? Ok, I'm sorry. See I thought your point was to compare about 12,000 of the 19,000 mustangs that were sold to cars they had no business being compared to such as 350Z's and GTO's and RX8's. Sorry about that.

The last time I saw numbers for 2006, GT production accounted for about 48% of the production. So, V6 production is only about 52%, considerably less than the "over 60%" that you have claimed. The V6 numbers were higher for 2005, but Ford adjusted the mix for 2006. I have not seen 2007 numbers yet.

 

By the way, I drive an 05 GT. If there had been a nice mid-sized RWD sport sedan on the market in the same price range, I would have looked at it. There was nothing else on the market at the time that I was interested in. There still isn't.

[mercmarauder]

Yeah, that RX-8 would be at a mother of a loss...I'm fairly skeptical.

 

It only had three miles on it, but it was a showroom car, so it has a lot (unfortunatley) of scratches and stuff on it, the doors hood, and truck don't quite line up right anymore from being open and shut so many times, and it has just random things messed up on it from being a demo car...but i can overlook all that for 9000 rpm of singing!

 

I also was able to use my military (af) discount...after all was said and done, that amounted to about 1100 bucks...

Edited March 7, 2007 by mercmarauder

[BlackHorse]

The last time I saw numbers for 2006, GT production accounted for about 48% of the production. So, V6 production is only about 52%, considerably less than the "over 60%" that you have claimed. The V6 numbers were higher for 2005, but Ford adjusted the mix for 2006. I have not seen 2007 numbers yet.

 

By the way, I drive an 05 GT. If there had been a nice mid-sized RWD sport sedan on the market in the same price range, I would have looked at it. There was nothing else on the market at the time that I was interested in. There still isn't.

 

Ok 52%? Ok, sorry about that. So lets make it about 10,000 of the over 19,000 Mustangs having no business being compared. Huge difference from 12,000. lol Additionally, you specified that RWD was a key factor to you in your choice of sports car. So yeah, the Mustang is your ideal choice. I'm just pointing out that for a lot of buyers, the RWD thing is not a huge factor. You bought a Mustang GT and typically people that opt for the GT are a more hardware or equipment oriented about their sports cars. Your average person that buys a V6 Mustang is typically some young person (college kid) who just wants a cool car. To that end, a lot of cars fit the bill that are not RWD with a V8. And they account for 52% of the Mustangs sold. You guys getting all this? Is it making any sense? I mean we started this whole rant because someone claims the Mustang is in a class by itself and therefore can't be compared to other cars. But I'm here to tell you in the minds of college kids and 20 somethings that buy the bulk of Mustangs (V6's) it most surely can be compared.

[BORG]

The sport car market is very fickle and the Mustang sales success is a little freakish for this segment. I'm amazed the Mustang sales high lasted this long. It will take a substantial update before they are able to curb that slide. The update for '09 is very minor.

[Surgen]

Ok 52%? Ok, sorry about that. So lets make it about 10,000 of the over 19,000 Mustangs having no business being compared. Huge difference from 12,000. lol Additionally, you specified that RWD was a key factor to you in your choice of sports car. So yeah, the Mustang is your ideal choice. I'm just pointing out that for a lot of buyers, the RWD thing is not a huge factor. You bought a Mustang GT and typically people that opt for the GT are a more hardware or equipment oriented about their sports cars. Your average person that buys a V6 Mustang is typically some young person (college kid) who just wants a cool car. To that end, a lot of cars fit the bill that are not RWD with a V8. And they account for 52% of the Mustangs sold. You guys getting all this? Is it making any sense? I mean we started this whole rant because someone claims the Mustang is in a class by itself and therefore can't be compared to other cars. But I'm here to tell you in the minds of college kids and 20 somethings that buy the bulk of Mustangs (V6's) it most surely can be compared.

 

So which sporty cars are these college kids picking over the Mustang?

 

And where are you getting this fact that 'college kids' and '20 somethings' are buying the 'bulk' of V6 Mustangs? Are you making it up, or is it based on facts?

[silvrsvt]

The update for '09 is very minor.

 

 

Care to elaborate or did you pull that out of your ass? The rumors are saying that the 09 will have all new sheetmetal from the green house down and a updated interior. Thats part of the reason why it was pushed back..because the original redo didn't have enough done to it to pass Mark Field's goals.

[BlackHorse]

So which sporty cars are these college kids picking over the Mustang?

 

Are you reading anything I'm typing?

 

Oh brother. Never mind buddy. Clearly you're just looking to argue with someone and I just don't feel like it.

[retro-man]

The sport car market is very fickle and the Mustang sales success is a little freakish for this segment. I'm amazed the Mustang sales high lasted this long. It will take a substantial update before they are able to curb that slide. The update for '09 is very minor.

 

 

I disagree. I think small moves can keep the crosshairs on target. You have to look at what the Mustang represented to the hearts and minds (and wallets) of those who made it as much of a success as it is. Any major moves, and you'll be in uncharted territory. Personally, I would like to see the '65 Focused on as inspiration: make the lines cleaner, the whole car a little more trim, crisply tailored, a little less bloated and festooned, try - if it's in any way possible given current technologies and regulations - to get the weight down, or at least give the impression of sveltness. Yeah, a modern interpretation of the genesis ..... maybe that would leave nothing left to do......

 

 

 

 

No. 2 son's '65: It looks as good today as it did 42 years ago (my son agrees). Of course, you can spot the old technology cues: the tinny bumpers, the flat, non-flush glass, the smallish, narrow-set tires, etc. etc., but it still looks beautiful - trim and crisply tailored, like an Armani suit. Is there anyone here who thinks it doesn't look good? Huh? Huh? So, what's with the occasional voice calling to throw it all away? I don't get that. Even Ford after all had the sense to let the Probe be the Probe, rather than the next generation Mustang, which it was originally intended to be. If you want something new, make something new. The Mustang still has plenty of life in it. And its success is not a "freak". Far from it. It's success is a natural outgrowth of its place in the collective cultural consciousness, even moreso than of the car itself. If you don't get that, you don't get nothing.

Edited March 7, 2007 by retro-man

[Nicks99GTOtherAccount]

Well I hate to be the one to interject reality once again, but I guess I must. First of all most of the Mustangs that sell are V6 model Mustangs, something like 60 some odd percent of the total. When you compare those to a 350Z which typically sells for about 10 to 12 grand more, that's not really a realistic comparison. In fact, aside from the Miata and Tiburon, none of the cars on your list are a realistic comparison for the V6 mustang and the solstice and sky are better compared to the mustang GT models due to the average price being above 26 thousand. To compound matters lets factor in that cars like the Solstice, Sky, and GTO and RX8 are not exactly abundant on the lots. The Sky I believe can only be obtained by means of ordering it. Meanwhile over at the Ford lots it's Mustangs galore. That's going to play a factor by virtue of the fact that Americans hate to wait for anything, even their expensive sports cars. lol

 

 

So let me get this straight..... 19,836 Mustangs were sold during January and February. Using your 60% mix of v6 mustangs, that would leave 7,934 v8 Mustangs which includes sales of the GT500, California Specials and plain jane GT models. So you are telling me that we can't compare the 350z (that starts around 27k and tops out around 36k) with a line of Mustangs that range from 25k to 45k? Using the numbers provided in this post, Ford sold over double the amount of v8 Mustangs than the refreshed 350z.

 

While you can argue that Eclipses and Tiburons are cross shopped with v6 mustangs, I bet that they are very rarely cross shopped with v8 mustangs, as customers looking at Mustang GTs know exactly what they want, and what they are getting into. Still, Ford sold around 9,000 v6 mustangs, easily pounding any of the foreign competition.

 

The Miata, Sky and Solstice are in a totally different class than the Mustang, and should not be compared.

 

WRXs and EVOs are also in a different class, but haven't put a dent in V8 mustang sales since they were introduced.

 

I also see that in a previous post that you mentioned that the 2004 Eclipse sold 184k units. I'd like to see the proof for that. Sales of the Eclipse have been on the decline since the turbo models were killed. I would be impressed if they go near the 100k mark since 2000.

 

Finally, there is a reason why there are not many Solstices, Skys, and GTOs and RX8s on dealer lots. The car companies know if they limit supply, they can keep the price up, so they only build what is demanded. Except for the GTO.... They are still paying people to take them off the lots.

 

I think we should all cry and put the white surrender flag up now. Ford completely trashed the competition in the segment, and still guys on here are crying the end of the world.

 

BTW, I own a 06 GT. The interior materials do suck, and what really sucks is that the "premium" model comes with a plastic steering wheel. Interior materials aside, the current mustang is a much better built car than the previous version in every way. Point being that the car can use improvement, and needs to be improved, but it is still by far the segment leader.

[Surgen]

I also see that in a previous post that you mentioned that the 2004 Eclipse sold 184k units. I'd like to see the proof for that. Sales of the Eclipse have been on the decline since the turbo models were killed. I would be impressed if they go near the 100k mark since 2000.

 

In 2004, Mitsubishi sold 161,609 total vehicles in the USA and 123,995 in 2005.

[NickF1011]

By the way for the record, in 2004 they sold 184 thousand and some change Eclipse cars. In June of 2005 it was 10,621 cars.

 

I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to see some sources to back this one up. The Eclipse, even in its BEST year, barely topped 100K. Perhaps a little higher back when you could count Laser and Talon sales in the mix.

[96 Pony]

I could be mistaken, but I do believe heated seats are an option on '07 Mustangs.

 

And what exactly is so "barbaric" about a car without heated seats anyway? They hardly existed on a single car 10 years ago, but now it is mandatory all the sudden to keep your buns warm in the dead of winter? It's little switches like this that I think are slowly eroding the character of the Mustang.

 

Ford needs to come out with a LARGER coupe, ala Torino/Thunderbird to appease these people (and those of you who are 6'4") so they can keep the Mustang more pure.

 

Spot on observation. In no way should Ford move away from the Mustangs roots as to what it is supposed to be - namely somewhat basic transportation with a sporty flair (V6) or a mean raw mutha capable of making arrogant BMW owners get all pissy when you blow past them in your GT Not that I ever did that, of course. :shades:

 

And as for the current Mustang sales - it is just a blip. If I remember correctly (I could look it up but I am being extremely lazy) around '91-'92 Mustang sales totally bit the dog and then flew back up in '93-'94 right around the time of the restyle.

 

But Ford is totally missing out on a market that would be so easy for them to tap into - namely people like myself who want speed but also want luxury, better engineered vehicles and are willing to pay for it.

 

And at 6'3" I must admit that I always felt totally cramped in my Mustangs. My TBird actually has a little more leg room. So yea - a new incarnation of the Thunderbird or Torino would be nice. Something along the lines of the Charger - heck, I wouldn't even mind 4 doors if they could do something like that!