Who has room

[slapped home]

I keep hearing about all these new vehicles that Ford is going to build but who will have room after all the plants that are on the hit list have been closed. Would it be cheaper to reopen a plant instead of adding on to an existing plant? At what percent are the plants running at now?

[rmc523]

I keep hearing about all these new vehicles that Ford is going to build but who will have room after all the plants that are on the hit list have been closed. Would it be cheaper to reopen a plant instead of adding on to an existing plant? At what percent are the plants running at now?

 

My guess would be that they would add to an existing plant (outside of US?), all the platform sharing that's coming will also determine where each model is built I would think.

 

While I'm responding to this similar topic, I was thinking, since FoE is having to expand/build new factories, I thought why doesn't Ford retool the recently closed American plants and build the European vehicles in them instead of building new European plants? Would the import rate be too expensive?

Edited August 3, 2007 by rmc523

[igor]

B and C cars: .. if any of them will be built in US they will be split between Wayne and Minneapolis (the Focus and Escape plants) .. with similar wheelbases and technology a lot of the small cars coming: Transit Connect, Fiesta, EcoSport, Focus, C-Max, Escape(Kuga), and maybe Reflex(Puma) - they can all be built on only a couple assembly lines. And that will be the biggest expansion of Ford's lineup ..

 

The RWD program will likely re-open the Wixom plant, which is supposedly on a warm shutdown, waiting on a highway ramp .. also of course St Thomas will be need a replacement product for the Panthers.

 

Finally, if Explorer goes to Chicago on D3, or Wixom/st thomas on the RWD platform, the Explorer plants will be also empty.

 

Most other models will just replace current models, or add another version of existing models. so all Ford would need to do is add shifts or otherwise incrementally increase capacity.

 

Igor

Edited August 3, 2007 by igor

[igor]

While I'm responding to this similar topic, I was thinking, since FoE is having to expand/build new factories, I thought why doesn't Ford retool the recently closed American plants and build the European vehicles in them instead of building new European plants? Would the import rate too expensive?

The problem is a result of the separation of FoE and FNA .. because the two divisions share literally nothing an export programs would not be viable .. however once they unite their portfolio and assembly, Ford will be much better positioned to respond to exchange rates, and will be able to export say Focus, Mondeo/Fusion and Escape/Kuga from US to EU and pocket the extra profit thanks to the currency exchange rate.

 

Igor

[rmc523]

The problem is a result of the separation of FoE and FNA .. because the two divisions share literally nothing an export programs would not be viable .. however once they unite their portfolio and assembly, Ford will be much better positioned to respond to exchange rates, and will be able to export say Focus, Mondeo/Fusion and Escape/Kuga from US to EU and pocket the extra profit thanks to the currency exchange rate.

 

Igor

 

Well, as the platforms and products begin to be developed/sold globally, Ford would be able to better utilize plants as you said.

[LincolnFan]

Wixom shouldn't built any non-Lincoln vehicle except the Thunderbird, using St. Thomas isn't a bad idea but wouldn't it require massive retooling? the factory is building BOF vehicles for crying out loud.

[matthewq4b]

Wixom shouldn't built any non-Lincoln vehicle except the Thunderbird, using St. Thomas isn't a bad idea but wouldn't it require massive retooling? the factory is building BOF vehicles for crying out loud.

 

 

St Thomas has the space available. Remember at one time St Thomas was building the Panthers and the Escort. You can not get any further apart than that in disciplines and still be building the same consumer product.

 

Matthew

[LincolnFan]

I never knew about the Escort built there, well there might be hope for that factory in this case.

[Deanh]

tommys place has a few spare rooms...for some reason everyone moved out,,,,,,,,,,

Edited August 3, 2007 by Deanh

[ANTAUS]

I would say it's easier to add to an existing plant. Having so many spread around, is probably a logistic nightmare. Just think of one minor issue, the yard maintenance will probably be the same, or even less because of the added structure onto the site....having ANOTHER plant, creates ANOTHER maintenance bill. And this is JUST maintenance, take into considering everything else pertaining to it, where you can start trimming costs.

[igor]

What in insider you are. :rolleyes:

 

The Minneapolis/St. Paul plant builds the RANGER, and is scheduled to close next year.

 

The Escape/Mariner/Tribute is built at the Kansas City plant.

thanks .. I thought it did not sound right ..

 

 

Igor

[Biker16]

here are my thoughts on this.

 

the C2 focus has to move.

 

I don't think Wayne can handle a profitable Focus. lines too long and not configured properly.

 

the Focus will go south, either mexico or a new low-cost plant in the US.

 

profit on small cars is all about utilization of the fixed capacity.

 

I believe that Brazil was a short term solution until ford can align C-car and B car production at one site. along the lines of the plants in europe where fiesta and focus are built alongside.

 

I think KCAP is Safe because they seem to do things better than wayne and they can continue to make SUVs for a profit, without the extremes needed to make B/C cars for a profit.

 

I think that LAP will be idled when they move the explorer to GRWD, by the time that happens they will likely be running only on shift.

 

I'd guess they build GRWD at STAP and CAP, moving the mustang to STAP. to be built along with the Explorer and RWD sedan. CAP would be overflow for GRWD.

 

AAI would be CD only, building mazda6s mazda CUVs and Ford CD overflow from Mexico.

[FordBuyer]

I keep hearing about all these new vehicles that Ford is going to build but who will have room after all the plants that are on the hit list have been closed. Would it be cheaper to reopen a plant instead of adding on to an existing plant? At what percent are the plants running at now?

 

I still believe Ford will build a new plant somewhere here or in Mexico or Canada after UAW contract is settled. If Ford gets deal it wants, I believe Ford will build new state of art plant here or Mexico or Canada if they don't. I would bet on Mexico over Canada. Just as it's more cost effective to build new building rather than rehab old one, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford builds all new like it did in Dearborn with its new plant there. Maybe the UAW will try to get Wixom rehabbed for new product as negotiating chip, but I would think Ford would want to build all new and use where it's built as negotiating chip for Ford to get what it wants. Maybe that is why Ford has been so mum on new products recently other than the ones we know. I would bet on new plant down South if Ford builds here. Build in right to work state. I really don't think Ford is as competitve as they could be building vehicles in Michigan. I still hear so much BS going on in plants like Wayne and Michigan Truck even today. And quality is still not what it could be. For example, it's sad to me that fit and finish is better coming out of Hermosillo than Wayne< MI. No excuse for it. Maybe Ford needs to start over with a clean slate and without all the baggage that goes with building in MI. The fact that Toyota or Honda won't touch MI with ten foot pole should tell Ford something.

[FordBuyer]

I keep hearing about all these new vehicles that Ford is going to build but who will have room after all the plants that are on the hit list have been closed. Would it be cheaper to reopen a plant instead of adding on to an existing plant? At what percent are the plants running at now?

 

I still believe Ford will build a new plant somewhere here or in Mexico or Canada after UAW contract is settled. If Ford gets deal it wants, I believe Ford will build new state of art plant here or Mexico or Canada if they don't. I would bet on Mexico over Canada. Just as it's more cost effective to build new building rather than rehab old one, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford builds all new like it did in Dearborn with its new plant there. Maybe the UAW will try to get Wixom rehabbed for new product as negotiating chip, but I would think Ford would want to build all new and use where it's built as negotiating chip for Ford to get what it wants. Maybe that is why Ford has been so mum on new products recently other than the ones we know. I would bet on new plant down South if Ford builds here. Build in right to work state. I really don't think Ford is as competitve as they could be building vehicles in Michigan. I still hear so much BS going on in plants like Wayne and Michigan Truck even today. And quality is still not what it could be. For example, it's sad to me that fit and finish is better coming out of Hermosillo than Wayne< MI. No excuse for it. Maybe Ford needs to start over with a clean slate and without all the baggage that goes with building in MI. The fact that Toyota or Honda won't touch MI with ten foot pole should tell Ford something.

[FordBuyer]

Yeah, because we know Nissan is having quality cars come out of their factory in Mississippi. :rolleyes:

 

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkkxW6rRGt0MB...ds.com/.ee8e3a1

 

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkkxW6rRGt0MB.../601070335/1148

 

 

Nissan has always had trouble with quality and probably reason why it got into trouble and had to be bailed out by Renault. Even last year, they couldn't sell their Altima for couple months because of oil fires. Nissan always has troubles.

[Surgen]

Ford's plan is to get to 84% capacity by the end of 2008 (see slide 17). I think the question is - given that they plan to be at 84% capacity by the end of 2008 - how many plants are they going to close to get closer to 100%?

 

They would be nuts to build any more plants. You can't look at just the cost of refurb vs. new plant. There are additional costs such as separating workers, and hireing new ones. Why spend all the money to separate workers - only to hire new ones elsewhere in the US? Doesn't make any sense.

 

I bet we'll learn a lot more about where new product is going, once the union agreement is signed this fall.

[FordBuyer]

Ford's plan is to get to 84% capacity by the end of 2008 (see slide 17). I think the question is - given that they plan to be at 84% capacity by the end of 2008 - how many plants are they going to close to get closer to 100%?

 

They would be nuts to build any more plants. You can't look at just the cost of refurb vs. new plant. There are additional costs such as separating workers, and hireing new ones. Why spend all the money to separate workers - only to hire new ones elsewhere in the US? Doesn't make any sense.

 

I bet we'll learn a lot more about where new product is going, once the union agreement is signed this fall.

 

 

The same reason school districts offer incentives for teachers to retire. They replace them with new teachers making about half what step 10 tenured teacher made. Ford will have to hire new workers in future if it is to grow and prosper and I bet they make nowhere near what those who took buyouts made. Ford will have to follow the competition...new hires no pension, just 401K with company match, much lower hourly wage, health care responsibility of union and government, and all other benefits either reduced or eliminated. The new American worker is going to make much less than the retired ones.

[Footballfan]

I still believe Ford will build a new plant somewhere here or in Mexico or Canada after UAW contract is settled. If Ford gets deal it wants, I believe Ford will build new state of art plant here or Mexico or Canada if they don't. I would bet on Mexico over Canada. Just as it's more cost effective to build new building rather than rehab old one, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford builds all new like it did in Dearborn with its new plant there. Maybe the UAW will try to get Wixom rehabbed for new product as negotiating chip, but I would think Ford would want to build all new and use where it's built as negotiating chip for Ford to get what it wants. Maybe that is why Ford has been so mum on new products recently other than the ones we know. I would bet on new plant down South if Ford builds here. Build in right to work state. I really don't think Ford is as competitve as they could be building vehicles in Michigan. I still hear so much BS going on in plants like Wayne and Michigan Truck even today. And quality is still not what it could be. For example, it's sad to me that fit and finish is better coming out of Hermosillo than Wayne< MI. No excuse for it. Maybe Ford needs to start over with a clean slate and without all the baggage that goes with building in MI. The fact that Toyota or Honda won't touch MI with ten foot pole should tell Ford something.

 

Mulally has put the kabosh to a brand new "low cost" plant. Whether Ford retools a current plant or reopens an idled one remains to be seen. Bottom line: Ford cannot afford a new plant and the fixed costs that go with it- especially for a compact car. At this point in time, it does not matter where Ford retools- they will get the contract that they want irregardless of location.

[Biker16]

Mulally has put the kabosh to a brand new "low cost" plant. Whether Ford retools a current plant or reopens an idled one remains to be seen. Bottom line: Ford cannot afford a new plant and the fixed costs that go with it- especially for a compact car. At this point in time, it does not matter where Ford retools- they will get the contract that they want irregardless of location.

 

 

well there inherent benefits to building new.

 

 

background on Wayne assembly:

 

Current Total Employment: 2,908

Hourly: 2,704

Salaried: 204

Current Products: Ford Focus

Year Opened: 1952

Site Size in Acres: 229

Plant Size in Square Feet: 3,708,300

 

184,000-210,000 units production in 2006 capacity is ~260,000 on 2 shifts.

 

this is Ford most afficent plant in Europe in Cologne

EMPLOYMENT

Current Total Employment: 4,218

Hourly: 4,013

Salaried: 205

PRODUCTION HISTORY

Current Products: Ford Fiesta 3 door, Ford Fiesta 5 door, Ford Fusion

Year Opened: 1931

Site Size in Acres: 1,284,000

Plant Size in Square Feet: 628,500

 

production 412,688 in 2006 on 3 crew.

 

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=26486

 

those are numbers

 

the fact is the focus line at Wayne is from a by gone era.

 

Picture this:

 

Cologne assembly has

 

One body line 2 trim lines,

 

The lines are shorter and the assembly process is more compact which is why we have almost twice the production from and plant 1/5 the size.

 

the difference in philosophy is marked.

 

this is Wayne ----------------------------------------------

 

------\

this is Cologne ---------

----/

 

We talk about modular assembly. which means building large chunks of the vehicle outside of the assembly plant, then placing those large chunks in the car, The affect is to make the Ford end of the assembly process as small as possible, reduceing the footprint and labor requirements, I.E. lowering the cost. cologne was one of the first Ford plants with a supplier park, unlike Chicago its suplier park is on site and connected via a conveyor system, directly to te assembly line.

 

Ford N.A.'s current assembly processes for small cars will never make money.

 

We need revolution and evolution of how we do things.

 

We could make Wayne into a "low Cost" plant but we would have to completely reconfigure it, leaving it idled for months while it be retooled.

 

The cost of idling the plant for months + the cost of gutting the plant + buying new tooling, + negotiating with the UAW to allow outsourcing.

 

We will be building FoE products in the US using Ford NA assembly processes which are different. with the Focus We could not share production improvements learned in germany with our plants in North America because our plants are so different from each other. Which was why we had problems that were found and fixed in Europe in 1998 show up in the US in 2000, we were not learning from our mistakes.

 

 

 

The "low cost" plant will be small < 2 million sqft, it will have a 3 crew work pattern, it will cost between .850-1.3 billion dollars.

[theoldwizard]

B and C cars: .. if any of them will be built in US they will be split between Wayne and Minneapolis (the Focus and Escape plants) .. with similar wheelbases and technology a lot of the small cars coming: Transit Connect, Fiesta, EcoSport, Focus, C-Max, Escape(Kuga), and maybe Reflex(Puma) - they can all be built on only a couple assembly lines. And that will be the biggest expansion of Ford's lineup ..

 

The RWD program will likely re-open the Wixom plant, which is supposedly on a warm shutdown, waiting on a highway ramp .. also of course St Thomas will be need a replacement product for the Panthers.

 

Finally, if Explorer goes to Chicago on D3, or Wixom/st thomas on the RWD platform, the Explorer plants will be also empty.

 

Most other models will just replace current models, or add another version of existing models. so all Ford would need to do is add shifts or otherwise incrementally increase capacity.

 

Igor

... and Santa Claus will be in town in about 5 month !

 

You have a rich fantasy life !

[theoldwizard]

I still believe Ford will build a new plant somewhere here or in Mexico ...

The new (or completely re-tooled) plant in Mexico will build the new 4.4L diesel engine.

 

I think Ford will renege on the "new plant in NA" statement.

[Footballfan]

well there inherent benefits to building new.

background on Wayne assembly:

 

Current Total Employment: 2,908

Hourly: 2,704

Salaried: 204

Current Products: Ford Focus

Year Opened: 1952

Site Size in Acres: 229

Plant Size in Square Feet: 3,708,300

 

184,000-210,000 units production in 2006 capacity is ~260,000 on 2 shifts.

 

this is Ford most afficent plant in Europe in Cologne

EMPLOYMENT

Current Total Employment: 4,218

Hourly: 4,013

Salaried: 205

PRODUCTION HISTORY

Current Products: Ford Fiesta 3 door, Ford Fiesta 5 door, Ford Fusion

Year Opened: 1931

Site Size in Acres: 1,284,000

Plant Size in Square Feet: 628,500

 

production 412,688 in 2006 on 3 crew.

 

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=26486

 

those are numbers

 

the fact is the focus line at Wayne is from a by gone era.

 

Picture this:

 

Cologne assembly has

 

One body line 2 trim lines,

 

The lines are shorter and the assembly process is more compact which is why we have almost twice the production from and plant 1/5 the size.

 

the difference in philosophy is marked.

 

this is Wayne ----------------------------------------------

 

------\

this is Cologne ---------

----/

 

We talk about modular assembly. which means building large chunks of the vehicle outside of the assembly plant, then placing those large chunks in the car, The affect is to make the Ford end of the assembly process as small as possible, reduceing the footprint and labor requirements, I.E. lowering the cost. cologne was one of the first Ford plants with a supplier park, unlike Chicago its suplier park is on site and connected via a conveyor system, directly to te assembly line.

 

Ford N.A.'s current assembly processes for small cars will never make money.

 

We need revolution and evolution of how we do things.

 

We could make Wayne into a "low Cost" plant but we would have to completely reconfigure it, leaving it idled for months while it be retooled.

 

The cost of idling the plant for months + the cost of gutting the plant + buying new tooling, + negotiating with the UAW to allow outsourcing.

 

We will be building FoE products in the US using Ford NA assembly processes which are different. with the Focus We could not share production improvements learned in germany with our plants in North America because our plants are so different from each other. Which was why we had problems that were found and fixed in Europe in 1998 show up in the US in 2000, we were not learning from our mistakes.

The "low cost" plant will be small < 2 million sqft, it will have a 3 crew work pattern, it will cost between .850-1.3 billion dollars.

 

I was not necessarily implying that Ford would retool Wayne for the next Gen Eurofocus. I was just stating that Ford could probably do something like you described at an idled plant. Whatever Ford decides to do, even if it is a new plant, let's hope the closed Ford plants (or the vicinities) get first crack!

[slapped home]

well there inherent benefits to building new.

background on Wayne assembly:

 

Current Total Employment: 2,908

Hourly: 2,704

Salaried: 204

Current Products: Ford Focus

Year Opened: 1952

Site Size in Acres: 229

Plant Size in Square Feet: 3,708,300

 

184,000-210,000 units production in 2006 capacity is ~260,000 on 2 shifts.

 

this is Ford most afficent plant in Europe in Cologne

EMPLOYMENT

Current Total Employment: 4,218

Hourly: 4,013

Salaried: 205

PRODUCTION HISTORY

Current Products: Ford Fiesta 3 door, Ford Fiesta 5 door, Ford Fusion

Year Opened: 1931

Site Size in Acres: 1,284,000

Plant Size in Square Feet: 628,500

 

production 412,688 in 2006 on 3 crew.

 

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=26486

 

those are numbers

 

the fact is the focus line at Wayne is from a by gone era.

 

Picture this:

 

Cologne assembly has

 

One body line 2 trim lines,

 

The lines are shorter and the assembly process is more compact which is why we have almost twice the production from and plant 1/5 the size.

 

the difference in philosophy is marked.

 

this is Wayne ----------------------------------------------

 

------\

this is Cologne ---------

----/

 

We talk about modular assembly. which means building large chunks of the vehicle outside of the assembly plant, then placing those large chunks in the car, The affect is to make the Ford end of the assembly process as small as possible, reduceing the footprint and labor requirements, I.E. lowering the cost. cologne was one of the first Ford plants with a supplier park, unlike Chicago its suplier park is on site and connected via a conveyor system, directly to te assembly line.

 

Ford N.A.'s current assembly processes for small cars will never make money.

 

We need revolution and evolution of how we do things.

 

We could make Wayne into a "low Cost" plant but we would have to completely reconfigure it, leaving it idled for months while it be retooled.

 

The cost of idling the plant for months + the cost of gutting the plant + buying new tooling, + negotiating with the UAW to allow outsourcing.

 

We will be building FoE products in the US using Ford NA assembly processes which are different. with the Focus We could not share production improvements learned in germany with our plants in North America because our plants are so different from each other. Which was why we had problems that were found and fixed in Europe in 1998 show up in the US in 2000, we were not learning from our mistakes.

The "low cost" plant will be small < 2 million sqft, it will have a 3 crew work pattern, it will cost between .850-1.3 billion dollars.

 

 

 

why would they idle wayne and lose focus production when they can retool an already idled plant like slap which is already mostly stripped or atlanta

[NickF1011]

Finally, if Explorer goes to Chicago on D3, or Wixom/st thomas on the RWD platform, the Explorer plants will be also empty.

 

I would guess that the Explorer will stay where it is and the Ranger will move in with it when its replacement comes online. I don't think either vehicle has the volume to support a plant by itself and I doubt Chicago would have the room for the Explorer after it gets the MKS and hopefully Taurus/Sable volume picks up somewhat.

[silvrsvt]

why would they idle wayne and lose focus production when they can retool an already idled plant like slap which is already mostly stripped or atlanta

 

 

Atlanta is going away along with SLAP...doubt they'll ever come back