MarkFive Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 To get you an clearer picture, the Focus ST costs about the same as the bare bones V6 Stang, and you get a loaded ST. Ford offered the Focus SVT a few years back. It was a great car and everyone had nice things to say about it. It was also relatively cheap. It didn't sell well and they dropped it. There are people who will always want cars like this, but the market for them is no where near as big as the other models offered for the same car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 This is a good point. Why buy the new European Focus when you can now buy a Fusion for the same price (I get more for the same price). Regarding price point, Hyundai's previous generation Accent sold like crazy (at least where I live). It wasn't the best thing in its class, but it was cheap and people lined up to buy them. They came out with a new Hyundai Accent, light years ahead of the previous generation and raised the price by $3000 (completely worth it). The result? Sales have tanked because the Accent was no longer that inexpensive. No one cared that the replacement car was better. If Ford were to bring the Focus from Europe over, they would have to change the name because its price point would no longer be near the current model. That's where the Verve comes in. It will be the new, affordable small car. The Focus then will be the more premium small car. I imagine the Verve pricewise will be in $12,000-15,000 range with the Focus starting at around $15,000 and probably topping out at $22,000. I sure hope Ford can make lots of Verves wherever final assembly is as it will sell better than Focus. With the new UAW contract, Ford should be able to make the European Focus here for affordable price. Since the Fusion starts at about $18,000 and tops out at about $24,000, Ford will have to price the new Focus between Verve and Fusion. If they don't, Focus will not survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 This is a good point. Why buy the new European Focus when you can now buy a Fusion for the same price (I get more for the same price). The next Fusion will go up in price for the next gen, much like the Malibu has. You want cheap prices you get a cheap car. Ford's "lets compete with Kia" strategy failed, miserably. They already raised Focus prices with the refresh, expect more of that once the Verve arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ford offered the Focus SVT a few years back. It was a great car and everyone had nice things to say about it. It was also relatively cheap. It didn't sell well and they dropped it. There are people who will always want cars like this, but the market for them is no where near as big as the other models offered for the same car. SVT Focii.........overpriced, 170hp, warranty issues, and not enough visual differentiation from the standad ZX3........170hp...cough cough......we SHOULD have gotten the RS w 200 hp at least evn if the car cost 3k more it would have done better..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Funny hearing all the prejudgements of the C1 Focus price. Down in AUS, the start at USD$18,000 and that's with: - 10% import tarriff , - 10% GST and - freight costs from South Africa ($1,500). So deducting those factors means a right drive Focus is about USD$13,400 EX South Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) You want cheap prices you get a cheap car. Ford's "lets compete with Kia" strategy failed, miserably. They already raised Focus prices with the refresh, expect more of that once the Verve arrives. Its about perception as well. People perceive the Focus to be in a particular price category. As well, for the past few years Ford has been putting a lot of money on the hood for the car so there was always room to negotiate. My Focus came with a $3000 rebate on the hood. I could have got an Aveo, Yaris, Accent, Sentra or Versa (in some cases I would have to pay more for one of these). But when you look at content for the price, the Focus was an incredible bargain. People are still going to be looking for an incredible price on a Focus because this is what they have been exposed to prior. Edited January 16, 2008 by MarkFive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The GTI starts at ~22k. The Focus ST is cheaper than that and already comes with everything but leather seats. (xenons, recaros, rain sensing wipers, moonroof, etc). A bare bones Focus ST could be had for 19k. A base GT starts at what? 26k? They don't overlap. People who want a Focus ST won't buy a Mustang, and viceversa. Kinda like the Edge and Escape. GTI is about $46,000 and the ST is about $39,000 in the UK the Mazda 3 offers the best performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ford offered the Focus SVT a few years back. It was a great car and everyone had nice things to say about it. It was also relatively cheap. It didn't sell well and they dropped it. The beauty of global programs is that FNA won't have to pay anything for a niche program, FOE will pay for that. The Focus ST170 costed FOE peanuts to implement in their lineup. BTW, no, it wasn't cheap for what you got, those were the days of the 11k Focus too. Things will need to change not just for the Focus brand, but for everything, and Mark Fields knows this too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The Mustang GT and the Focus ST don't overlap. At all. To get you an clearer picture, the Focus ST costs about the same as the bare bones V6 Stang, and you get a loaded ST. I kind of doubt that, the GTI starts at 25K in the States and tops out at 31K, right dead smack in the middle of Mustang GT pricing. a Nicely loaded V6 Mustang is around the 25K mark There is no way that a Focus ST can cost any more then 25K in the States and still be able to be sold, plus...is there really a market for one? The SVT sold in tiny numbers (less then 8-10K cars a year) and the 2005-2007 ST wasn't that successful either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) Things will need to change not just for the Focus brand, but for everything, and Mark Fields knows this too well. I think its an established fact within the whole company. In addition, the days of big rebates on the hood and losing money on every sale are long gone (edit: I should correct myself. My dealer is offering $8000 rebates on the Explorer). Everything they produce has got to help profits. I can't tell you if Ford makes money yet on sales of the American Focus. Last I heard, they were still losing money but that was a while ago. Edited January 16, 2008 by MarkFive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I can't tell you if Ford makes money yet on sales of the American Focus. Last I heard, they were still losing money but that was a while ago. This was something Mulally homed in on arrivial in late 2006, that his manager hadn't reeled in the costs - approx $3,000/vehicle. Ford used to view the Focus as little more than a CAFE offset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ok let me get this straight, you are telling me you will gladly pay for a 35K FWD Focus with a 250HP I5 and won't save 5K and buy a RWD Mustang V8 GT? Who said anything about paying 35K for a Focus? Are you another one who makes up outrageous prices as an argument to not sell quality vehicles in America? The GTI starts at ~22k. The Focus ST is cheaper than that and already comes with everything but leather seats. (xenons, recaros, rain sensing wipers, moonroof, etc). A bare bones Focus ST could be had for 19k. A base GT starts at what? 26k? They don't overlap. People who want a Focus ST won't buy a Mustang, and viceversa. Kinda like the Edge and Escape. Maybe they don't sell the Focus ST because it would steal sales from the pony. The Mustang GT and the Focus ST don't overlap. At all. To get you an clearer picture, the Focus ST costs about the same as the bare bones V6 Stang, and you get a loaded ST. Richard might as well argue Ford should kill the V6 Stang "because people would just go for the GT anyway" :rolleyes: No, rental companies need a cheap, 2-door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Who said anything about paying 35K for a Focus? Are you another one who makes up outrageous prices as an argument to not sell quality vehicles in America?Maybe they don't sell the Focus ST because it would steal sales from the pony. No, rental companies need a cheap, 2-door. valid points...one thing though, where would that leave the fusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 There is no way that a Focus ST can cost any more then 25K in the States and still be able to be sold You just keep falling for Richard's FUD. The Mustang GT, V6, and Focus ST are all sold in Mexico. The Focus ST and the base, manual V6 Stang cost roughly the same (go to ford.com.mx), but that's for the top of the line Focus, it doesn't go any higher than that. And you heard wrong, the GTI starts at ~22k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 valid points...one thing though, where would that leave the fusion? Right where it is. I don't think the Focus sales would impact the Fusion sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Right where it is. I don't think the Focus sales would impact the Fusion sales. they most definitely will if they are $ for $!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 You just keep falling for Richard's FUD. The Mustang GT, V6, and Focus ST are all sold in Mexico. The Focus ST and the base, manual V6 Stang cost roughly the same (go to ford.com.mx), but that's for the top of the line Focus, it doesn't go any higher than that. And you heard wrong, the GTI starts at ~22k I'm using US pricing not Mexican pricing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 they most definitely will if they are $ for $!!!!!!! Why in their right mind would they price the Fusion and Focus the same? If anything the pricing matrix would be like this: Fiesta/Verve: Start at 11K and top out at 15-17K, but I'd say the avg transaction price would be just under 15K Focus: Start at 14K and top out at 21-22K for a ST model avg price at 16-17K Fusion Start at 18K and top out near 28K without a Performance model avg price 21-22K Taurus: Starts at 24 and tops out near the 32K mark without a perfomance model avg price 24-26 Not that much overlap besides high end models, but your bread and butter would be made with nicely equiped models that are in the middle of that price bracket that gives you a 2k-4K difference in price...about a difference of 100-200 a month on a car payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Why in their right mind would they price the Fusion and Focus the same? If anything the pricing matrix would be like this: Fiesta/Verve: Start at 11K and top out at 15-17K, but I'd say the avg transaction price would be just under 15K Focus: Start at 14K and top out at 21-22K for a ST model avg price at 16-17K Fusion Start at 18K and top out near 28K without a Performance model avg price 21-22K Taurus: Starts at 24 and tops out near the 32K mark without a perfomance model avg price 24-26 Not that much overlap besides high end models, but your bread and butter would be made with nicely equiped models that are in the middle of that price bracket that gives you a 2k-4K difference in price...about a difference of 100-200 a month on a car payment. I'm just saying that because the guys here are saying 25 k ish.....which leaves the Fusion in a crux.....as for your pricing I think my theory will hold true...all will move upmarket in content AND pricing and the Verve will slot in where the current Focii resides...and they get up to 20k.....scary huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I'm just saying that because the guys here are saying 25 k ish.....which leaves the Fusion in a crux.....as for your pricing I think my theory will hold true...all will move upmarket in content AND pricing and the Verve will slot in where the current Focii resides...and they get up to 20k.....scary huh? No the problem with the Focus is that its priced too cheaply as it is now...because Ford is lacking a B-car...when the Focus came out it had the old ZX2 under it to keep transaction prices higher. If the Focus can sell at 14-15K vs 12K that it is now, that goes a long way to making it profitible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 No the problem with the Focus is that its priced too cheaply as it is now...because Ford is lacking a B-car...when the Focus came out it had the old ZX2 under it to keep transaction prices higher. If the Focus can sell at 14-15K vs 12K that it is now, that goes a long way to making it profitible. but the average MSRP right now IS $15500 they have bugger all markup and 500 in rebates...THATS it!, basic auto 4 door, we have them as high as $20k ALREADY...now THATS scary, almost as scary as the styling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Who said anything about paying 35K for a Focus? Are you another one who makes up outrageous prices as an argument to not sell quality vehicles in America?Maybe they don't sell the Focus ST because it would steal sales from the pony. No, rental companies need a cheap, 2-door. *raises hand* Who said anything about a $35k Focus? That would be me. That is how much a Focus would cost here. By the way, whomever is comparing the prices of Mexican and Australian commodities to what they would cost here is mistaken. Our economy sucks right now and so does our dollar. Our dollar is declining against nearly every other currency out there. That means that our dollar purchases less right now - so prices are higher. Don't you think Mulally would be floating the darn cars on a boat over here if he really could? Anyway, I'm done with this. This is all speculation anyway. Ford knows how much it would cost and there must be a reason why they are not importing it .. and as much as you guys hate to admit it, the "ugly" Focus on the lots right now is probably selling BETTER than the Euro Focus would. You know why? The Euro Focus would blend in here. Our Focus stands out, even if it is ugly. Edited January 17, 2008 by SVT_MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 *raises hand* Who said anything about a $35k Focus? That would be me. That is how much a Focus would cost here. So you belong in the group that thinks Mazda is selling their global cars at a huge loss in the US? I guess it's true, Ford should cancel the Verve. It would cost almost 30k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 So you belong in the group that thinks Mazda is selling their global cars at a huge loss in the US? I guess it's true, Ford should cancel the Verve. It would cost almost 30k I have no idea how Mazda is doing here or how profitable they are. Mazda pushes so little volume here that I don't even pay attention to them. In all honesty, I am tired of fighting about this issue. It isn't because I think someone has proven me wrong, but it's because this same issue comes up every time somebody hates the Fusion or Focus we get here. What difference does it really make? Ford isn't importing the Euro Focus or the Euro Mondeo any time soon, so arguing about it is futile. Am I wrong about the prices? I certainly could be. I have no idea. I am going based upon the idea that USD is declining in comparison to other world currencies ... so even if the cars aren't $30,000 or whatever, they WILL be more expensive here than where they are built simply because our dollar buys you less right now. Am I wrong that it would not be advantageous for the US to import cars from Europe right now? I could very well be mistaken, and if I am, go ahead and show me why I am ... I can take it. (Not trying to be a smart ass or anything, I don't mind being corrected as long as the correction makes logical sense ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 So you belong in the group that thinks Mazda is selling their global cars at a huge loss in the US? I guess it's true, Ford should cancel the Verve. It would cost almost 30k Haha, I can't believe people still argue this whole price thing when they are shown to be 100% wrong over and over again. The GTI and the Mazda 3 must cost 40 grand, how do they sell any?? The Fiesta will cost us 30k! For a B car! I don't know why these people are so negative all the time, people obviously pay for high quality and good styling or they wouldn't buy Eurocars, if Ford makes the Focus worth it's price people will pay for it, it's very very simple. If they keep out-Korean"ing" the Koreans, they will continue to lose money and be thought of as the Wal-Mart bargain shitty brand. To prove how utterly wrong people are here we can just look at the prices for Volvo's C30, and Volvo's sell at a higher price than Ford's do, yet the C30 starts at only 22K, and it's nothing but a re-styled Focus ST with a Volvo badge, so if Volvo can sell their version of the Focus ST for only 22K here in the states, the Ford version would be even cheaper, and base models of the Focus would be abut the same as the American version. Some people just can't admit that they are wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.