MAC Vs. PC

[RichardJensen]

So basically it's been changed for the sake of change.

That's how I see it.

[Edstock]

Me too.

[suv_guy_19]

As do I.

[Furious1Auto]

Give the mac a try? I've been using Macs for years.

 

A little background: I cut my teeth on the Vic-20, but most of my primary education years were spent on PCs running windows (3.1 and 98). But I had often used Macs at school and loved them. So, when I went to college, I got a Mac. My iMac lasted 5 years, and so far my current mac is 3 1/4 years old with no signs of aging.

 

My major: Computer Science. Mac OS X is the perfect marriage of a beautiful, well-designed GUI and rock solid UNIX underpinnings. It's perfect for when I'm developing apps, tinkering with perl scripts, writing and testing PHP apps in an environment that perfectly mirrors the production server, and then I can retreat to the easiest, smoothest GUI when I'm done.

 

At work, I have a Mac and PC side by side. I probably spend 90% of my time on the Mac; the PC has the advantage of having firewall access to one of our development servers that the mac doesn't (I'm too lazy to bug the sysadmin), and access to Active Directory lookup tools.

 

Anyone who uses a computer as a serious gaming platform needs to rethink things. Get a PS3 or XBOX - it'll be far cheaper than a computer with equivalent capabilities. As for my Mac, I can play Age of Empires 3 just fine, that's good enough for me. Anything else that needs a lot of processing power, and Macs are an excellent choice. There's a reason they're popular for scientific research computing clusters.

 

And anyone who pays for Apple to install component upgrades... Seriously? It's like taking your car to the dealer to change your wiper blades. It takes 5 minutes tops to do a memory upgrade (well, of course I have a tower, which makes it super easy to access anything I could want to upgrade. My Mini takes a little longer to pull apart, probably 20 minutes).

[CJRivera]

...so Gates has earned his keep! I doubt if he had not brought it to market that Apple would have even released it. I know he helped design it when working for Apple, but Microsoft gave it to the world!

 

I didn't know Gates worked for Apple, much less designed it.

 

I thought Apple was getting ready to release their OS with a new GUI and gave a prototype to Microsoft/Gates to play with in hopes they would release MS software for the Mac.

 

And I think Mac OS was already out when Windows 1.0 was released...

 

"Microsoft Windows eventually came to dominate the world's personal computer market, overtaking Mac OS, which had been introduced previously."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows

[CJRivera]

My girlfriend just recently lost her ENTIRE collection of photos in iPhoto. She claimed it happened when she loaded her Canon digital camera with iPhoto. The guys at her dad's business were able to recover the photos - WITH software - but that's the whole problem with MacOSX. Since the photos show up in iPhoto, she thinks the photos are in iPhoto. I've tried explaning to her that they are really just on a folder in her hard drive, but she always thought iPhoto was a container for her photos. And that isn't the case - iPhoto isn't a container. It simply reads directories and photos that you specify. Lucky for her, she was able to recover her photos - but to me, software like that breeds users who dont understand how or where files are stored and that is a dangerous thing. PCs are admittedly harder to use in that regard, but at least PC users are able to understand where photos are stored.

 

Has she upgraded to 10.5 yet? That sounds like a situation the new "Time Machine" app that comes with 10.5 would come in really handy for.

[LincolnFan]

Who the crap uses Macs? They're overpriced as heck, I could assemble a PC/find a laptop that costs less than half of what Steve's junk goes for. The OS is crap, anyone who bitches about Vista should get Vista x64, just make sure your processor is a 64-bit unit.

[2005Explorer]

Who the crap uses Macs? They're overpriced as heck, I could assemble a PC/find a laptop that costs less than half of what Steve's junk goes for. The OS is crap, anyone who bitches about Vista should get Vista x64, just make sure your processor is a 64-bit unit.

 

The OS is crap? Are you referring to Mac OSX? It most certainly is NOT crap. It is very stable and easy to use. I have Vista Business on my laptop which is the 32 bit version because I have a 32 bit processor and it is what I would call a mediocre operating system. Vista is stable and has some nice eye candy, but it just feels clunky. It takes forever to boot, at least for the sidebar, and is a memory hog.

 

Macs are not really that overpriced. If you compare 2 desktops or laptops with the same specifications there is not a huge amount of difference in price. Sure, you could build a decent PC for less, but not everyone wants to build their computer.

 

Take it from a person that owns both a Mac and a PC. Apple builds a superior computer.

 

Has she upgraded to 10.5 yet? That sounds like a situation the new "Time Machine" app that comes with 10.5 would come in really handy for.

 

When I first upgraded my iMac to 10.5 I did not think Time Machine would be a big deal. Well a couple of weeks ago it finally paid off. I had some software on my Mac that I had to pay for and when I opened the program it asked if I wanted to update. Well after I did the update the company wanted me to pay again for the new update. No problem, I just went back in time and reinstalled the original program. It worked great! I bought a 250GB Seagate External HDD on sale for $50 at Best Buy and it works like a charm backing up my system every hour.

Edited January 27, 2008 by 2005Explorer

[Roadrunner]

Seeking Ford content....

 

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh??

 

Then again

Link 2 -

Edited January 27, 2008 by Roadrunner

[RichardJensen]

"Microsoft Windows eventually came to dominate the world's personal computer market, overtaking Mac OS, which had been introduced previously."

Meh. They both ripped off Xerox

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star

[theoldwizard]

They both ripped off Xerox

True !

 

But Xerox upper management had no idea what they had !

 

The entire Star System was demo at "special" dinner meeting of the Board of Directors and all of the Senior Management and their spouses. After the obligatory applause, management was invited to try out the system. Most decline, but their spouse, many who were secretaries before that got married **LOVED** the system.

 

Instead of helping the engineers get it to market, Xerox management actually allowed Jobs to tour P.A.R.C.

 

Hmmm ... Maybe it was the ex-Ford management that Xerox hired !

 

BTW, the founders of Adobe (Postscript, Reader, etc, etc) both worked at Xerox P.A.R.C. They designed and "built" two precursors to Postscript, which were completely ignore. For their 3rd installment, they quit the company and started Adobe.

[RichardJensen]

Yeah. Was PARC hooked up to anything at Xerox????

 

BTW, scuttlebutt has it that when Apple were considering suing MS over Windows 95's recycle bin, their lawyers coughed politely and sort of suggested they recall their appropriation of Star elements, and asked what kind of precedent they wanted to set....

[pffan1990]

I'm a Mac user myself! I'm actually surprised there are quite a few of the users here. I have possibly one of the very last PowerPC-run desktop Macs produced, mainly because I was wary on how the upcoming-at-the-time (October 2005) Intel-run Macs would work. Also Apple was discounting the remaining Power PC Macs so I took the deal. Anyway, my '05 Mac has:

 

1. Dual-Core 2.3GHz processor

2. 1GB memory

3. 250GB hard drive

4. Didn't want the expensive Apple monitor so I got Sony 19" LCD

5. I upgraded mouse to the Logitech TrackMan Wheel (where the mouse itself stays in one spot while the ball moves the cursor with your thumb!)

 

I love it and plan on soon upgrading the memory. Since I saw how successful the new Intel Macs were I plan on getting one someday, if not sometime by 2010. lol. I like Apple's newly-released 8-core Mac in which two separate chips has 4-core! It is 3.2GHz. On their website they have where you can select options and it would give the price. I had that 8-core optioned exactly how I would like it and came up with ~$6,000!

[JW]

If the Mac operating systems are just soooo bitchen', why did Apple start building Macs that can run Windows?

 

Any of you Mac lemmings ever try to troubleshoot TCP/IP connectivity? How the hell do you ping something with that pile of shit?

[SVT_MAN]

1) Classic, which I've tried, retains the misplaced minimize/maximize/close buttons, and the awkwardly changed dialog boxes (you're saving a file, you click on the drop down box that used to give you the directory tree, and now you get a list of websites visited? How is that in any way useful when you're saving a file? IE 7 dissociated IE 6's cool integrated FTP client, so it's not like that list of web addresses will let you save stuff to a server.

 

2) I'm no fan of the System 7-9 interfaces. OS X shows how you can *update an interface and *make it easier to use. Vista is -not- easier to use, it's just different, and that, IMO, is unjustified.

 

3) Windows 3.11 was the best Windows interface. They've only gone downhill from there.

 

I am angry about IE 6's integrated FTP client going by the wayside, but I think a lot of people missed WHY that happened. Microsoft has been hit with so many anti-trust lawsuits that getting rid of FTP support in IE was one of their ways to reduce their monopoly status. Do you really believe MS would get rid of support like that without being forced to?

 

I also agree that Vista has some odd interface changes. Some are for the better. Honestly, I wish whatever group designed the new Office 2007 suite had designed Vista as a whole. Office 2007 is a TRULY ground-breaking product and it makes things SOOOO easy to manipulate and get work done quickly. I seriously have increased my productivity since I upgraded to Office 2007. The ribbon interface is genius.

 

When people say that Microsoft has a monopoly, I don't disagree, but in the same breath: I don't care either. Operating systems aren't something we want 1000 different ones to choose from. They are way different than cars. I have been using Vista and MacOSX recently, and I can still get things done quicker on Vista. You might say it's because I grew up on Windows - but maybe that is kind of dumb to say if you're claiming the UI has changed so much. I have no problem using Vista.

 

By the way, I have no idea how Windows 3.11 is the best interface. I've used it, and it's lame. Honestly, the versions of MacOSX on the 75 mhz PowerPCs of old was better than 3.11. 3.11 was so lame.

 

If the Mac operating systems are just soooo bitchen', why did Apple start building Macs that can run Windows?

 

Any of you Mac lemmings ever try to troubleshoot TCP/IP connectivity? How the hell do you ping something with that pile of shit?

 

By the same token, why are PC users like me running MacOSX now that it is x86? Maybe it's because it's nice having different operating systems to do different things.

 

Macs are not really that overpriced. If you compare 2 desktops or laptops with the same specifications there is not a huge amount of difference in price. Sure, you could build a decent PC for less, but not everyone wants to build their computer.

 

Honestly, I can't agree with you. Macs always have been, and probably always will be more expensive than PCs. And, I really do not understand how you're saying you could build a PC for less. That simply isn't true. I could go to Dell or HP and configure a custom machine just as I want it for less than building it with all separate parts. Why? Because HP and Dell get bulk discounts on parts. That said, I do build my computers. I don't buy my desktops from an OEM because I don't like how much proprietary crap they put on a system when they ship them out. Whenever I help others buy a new computer, the first thing I do is put all the important drivers and software on a disk, and then reformat.

 

Vista and XP would appear to be MUCH better operating systems if they didn't ship with such crap from the factory at OEMs like Dell and HP.

Edited January 28, 2008 by SVT_MAN

[CJRivera]

Meh. They both ripped off Xerox

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star

 

Apple paid Xerox in stocks to tour Xerox PARC to use the GUI concepts from PARC.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer

Jobs and several other Apple employees including Jef Raskin visited Xerox PARC in December 1979 to see the Alto computer. Xerox granted Apple engineers three days of access to the PARC facilities in return for selling them US$1 million in pre-IPO Apple stock (approximately US$18 million net).

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_PARC

Xerox has been heavily criticized (particularly by business historians) for failing to properly commercialize and profitably exploit PARC's innovations. A favorite example is the GUI, initially developed at PARC for the Alto and then commercialized as the Xerox Star by the Xerox Systems Development Department. Although very significant in terms of its influence on future system design, it is deemed a failure because it only sold approximately 25,000 units. A small group from PARC led by David Liddle and Charles Irby formed Metaphor Computer Systems. They extended the Star desktop concept into an animated graphic and communicating office automation model and sold the company to IBM.

The first successful commercial GUI product was the Apple Macintosh, which was heavily inspired by PARC's work; Xerox was given Apple stock in exchange for engineer visits and an understanding that Apple would create a GUI product.

 

 

.... but yes, it was all started at Xerox, but they didn't know what they had or what to do with it.

Edited January 28, 2008 by CJRivera

[RichardJensen]

If the Mac operating systems are just soooo bitchen', why did Apple start building Macs that can run Windows?

 

Any of you Mac lemmings ever try to troubleshoot TCP/IP connectivity? How the hell do you ping something with that pile of shit?

1) They've had Macs that could run Windows for y-e-a-r-s.

 

Because the Power PCs were RISC processors, you could build a CISC (x86) emulator, and thus create a virtual Intel machine running through the Mac OS. "Virtual PC" ended up getting bought by Microsoft.

 

2) Two ways: Go to utilities and click on either "terminal" or "network utility" One lets you type straight up 'nix commands (use it to SSH into our server all the time) the other has a tab helpfully labeled Ping (I have both pinned to my Dock)

 

I mean you got the whole slate of 'nix commands at your disposal, so you can troubleshoot network issues arguably with greater precision than you can with Vista.

[RichardJensen]

Office 2007 is a TRULY ground-breaking product and it makes things SOOOO easy to manipulate and get work done quickly. I seriously have increased my productivity since I upgraded to Office 2007. The ribbon interface is genius.

 

By the way, I have no idea how Windows 3.11 is the best interface. I've used it, and it's lame. Honestly, the versions of MacOSX on the 75 mhz PowerPCs of old was better than 3.11. 3.11 was so lame.

1) I totally disagree with you. I know the keyboard short cuts for all the easy stuff, which means I want a familiar means of accessing all the tricky stuff. Secondly, there's only so many icons you can come up with before you reach the 'saturation point' and they all stop making sense. And, BTW, I'm barely over 30, so it's not like I'm rebelling against this in my old age.

 

2) Why was Windows 3.11 great? Because it was consistent. If MS had the proper metrics, the proper priorities for user interface design, they could've built on that. Instead, the metrics seem to be directed all the wrong way. Features are added, but nothing is streamlined. It gets to the point where you no longer care what they've added, you just wish it was easy to use.

[CJRivera]

2) Two ways: Go to utilities and click on either "terminal" or "network utility" One lets you type straight up 'nix commands (use it to SSH into our server all the time) the other has a tab helpfully labeled Ping (I have both pinned to my Dock)

 

I mean you got the whole slate of 'nix commands at your disposal, so you can troubleshoot network issues arguably with greater precision than you can with Vista.

 

Quit muddying the issue with the facts.

Edited January 28, 2008 by CJRivera

[robertlane]

Macs were once generally regarded as only a publishers tool, however, that has changed today to everyday computing.

 

My daily computer is a Mac G4 Dual Processor from 2000. Our other Mac is from 2003 and the third is from 2005. They all run the latest software and we NEVER turn them off. They have NEVER been down for anything. They are simply solid work horses.

 

In our RIP pile are: One Dell from 2005 and a Sony VAIO from 2005.

 

In our working PC camp, we have a Dell (XP Pro) that has so much virus protection, it makes the Trojan brand jealous. We also have a new Sony VAIO with Vista which does a good job so far.

 

So, we use both Mac and PCs. However, the Macs have been far superior in terms of reliability and longevity. They SIMPLY WORK like they are supposed to without fuss or hassle.

 

Some say that an equally equipped PC costs as much as a Mac - but I won't argue that case because it's really moot. The Macs just deliver without virus tools, firewalls or other jibberish.

 

I'm happy to pay more for a superior product that doesn't CAUSE headaches....and that's a Mac.

[ANTAUS]

I've never really understood the whole Mac/PC debates people have. Like, some people are adamant over not using a PC and stay with a Mac. I keep hearing about "reliability" with their PC...I've had just 2. Current one is a Dell from 2004, but I've added much more onto it, where it's probably just as fast as some of the newer stuff. I dont get the Windows issues, never got the "blue screen of death" as I've seen on others computers, it's just worked well for me. I can add/deduct/remove components easily and upgrade as I go. Now just looking at a Mac, I feel like "coochie coochie coo" cause I dont see it being very flexible in that aspect.

 

Plus, all programs out there are PC based, so why go onto a Mac where you have limited software? Granted, I'm not saying Mac is a bad choice either. It's sort of how I describe when people ask me which I prefer, "Home Depot, or Lowe's" I tell them "Well Home Depot I can get down dirty and butch, its the standard...dont really like Lowe's cause it's clean, prissy, warm and fuzzy"... Best way I can explain it.

[SVT_MAN]

Except Home Depot sucks. They ripped me off, and I will never shop there again. They have terrible business practices - they are focused on one thing: Profit. They are the Toyota of "home improvement."

 

In our working PC camp, we have a Dell (XP Pro) that has so much virus protection, it makes the Trojan brand jealous. We also have a new Sony VAIO with Vista which does a good job so far.

 

So, we use both Mac and PCs. However, the Macs have been far superior in terms of reliability and longevity. They SIMPLY WORK like they are supposed to without fuss or hassle.

 

Some say that an equally equipped PC costs as much as a Mac - but I won't argue that case because it's really moot. The Macs just deliver without virus tools, firewalls or other jibberish.

 

I'm happy to pay more for a superior product that doesn't CAUSE headaches....and that's a Mac.

 

Your problem isn't Mac versus PC. Your problem is that your PCs are from Dell and Sony. Dell and Sony have a horrible track record (Sony especially). My brother and I run a small computer repair business out of our home, and the most frequent computers that conk out on people are Dells and Sonys. We NEVER see HPs or IBMs. (I probably just jinxed myself right there ... $10 says we see an HP by next week lol.)

 

1) I totally disagree with you. I know the keyboard short cuts for all the easy stuff, which means I want a familiar means of accessing all the tricky stuff. Secondly, there's only so many icons you can come up with before you reach the 'saturation point' and they all stop making sense. And, BTW, I'm barely over 30, so it's not like I'm rebelling against this in my old age.

 

Okay, first of all, if you thought I was implying you are old in some way, I apologize. I didn't see that in anything I said though. Second, if I'm not mistaken, you are a native Mac user. Third, I'm a freelance web designer. I think I understand that simplicity of navigation is a key to a successful website or any successful interface in general. The tabbed interface of Word are arragned logically (to me at least) and the icons became an instant reminder of what is where. I am a very visual learner and the graphical elements of the new Office products have helped improve my productivity greatly. Not only that, but the built in designs and "stretch table" functions are fantastic.

 

As a native Windows user, I find the Office 2007 product to be stellar in almost all regards. Much easier to use than all previous versions AND much easier to look at. There will always be those who disagree, but the vast majority of computer magazines out there agree with me. They find Vista to be a hum ho product (as do I, yet I do not throw it under the bus because it isn't a bad operating system - it is just not as good as MS could have done). They find MS Office 07 to be stellar. I agree.

Edited January 30, 2008 by SVT_MAN

[RichardJensen]

I didn't see that in anything I said though.

No. I saw it in what I said.

 

Second, if I'm not mistaken, you are a native Mac user.

Nope. But I love keyboard shortcuts.

 

They're fast. Probably picked it up when I did AutoCAD drafting. Typing is much faster than mouse clicking.

 

Third, I'm a freelance web designer. I think I understand that simplicity of navigation is a key to a successful website or any successful interface in general.

 

Ditto. I'm a web designer, and I think that simplicity of navigation is trumped by everything apart from consistency.

[RichardJensen]

In other words.......... Marginal increases in effectiveness does not trump alienating established users.

 

It's why we minimize graphics sizes and keep all our usability improvements within customary frameworks.

[silvrsvt]

Your problem isn't Mac versus PC. Your problem is that your PCs are from Dell and Sony. Dell and Sony have a horrible track record (Sony especially). My brother and I run a small computer repair business out of our home, and the most frequent computers that conk out on people are Dells and Sonys. We NEVER see HPs or IBMs. (I probably just jinxed myself right there ... $10 says we see an HP by next week lol.)

 

 

But also aren't Sony and Dell the most bought PC's out there? I've had 93 Dell Workstations at work I support, and outside of Seagate Hard Drives and Nvidia Video Cards crapping out on them...I've only had one motherboard go bad in the past 6 years of using them. We just got in some HP Workstations to replace them..see how well they fare.

 

All the Dell Laptops I've owned or had people buy for personal use run great...