So does Ford really need a Minivan?

[silvrsvt]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/hyundai-cans-e...ge-minivan.html

 

Facing ever-slipping sales, Hyundai has officially pulled the plug on its Entourage minivan. Already a rare sight on North American roads, Hyundai managed to sell just 5,400 buyers last year, a 67 percent drop-off from 2008. The Entourage was introduced in 2007.

 

Even at its best year, Hyundai sold just 17,000 Entourage vans, a far cry from the automaker’s expectations. The minivan market has been in a steady decline since SUVs became mainstream more than 15 years ago

[NickF1011]

With the Sedona already available, I never saw the point of the Entourage in the first place.

[J-150]

it's all about people movers now, not just having an entry into a narrowly defined segment.

[ds91776]

I really dont understand Hyundai/Kia's strategy. In my view, Kia should not have a minivan (Sedona), large sedan (Amanti), or large SUV (Borrego). Those markets should always have been left to Hyundai. If I ran things Hyundai would be the mainstream brand, making a full lineup of cars, a coupe, crossovers, and a minivan, and should reach to no longer sell on value (which it is getting very close to doing right now). Kia, on the other hand, should occupy where Hyundai used to be and Kia is mostly now, as a value brand. It should take previous gen Hyundai platforms and then rebody them with modern styling and interiors, and then use the cheap development costs to sell at a budget price. It should only have B, C, CD sedans (with B and C hatchback versions thrown in) as well as B, C, and CD crossovers with a mini-minivan or Rondo type vehicle. This plan makes sense, because both brands proved that there was a huge market in the US for a value brand. But Hyundai wants to make it to the big leagues along with Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford, and Chevy. It has the ability to do that right now. But to do the same with Kia makes no sense. Kia should be and always should have been, the brand that sells primarily on value, giving a brand for budget buyers to shop, while distancing Hyundai from its less prestigous sister.

[Edstock]

I can't wait to see how the TransitConnect is received when it hits the dealerships.

[taxman100]

I can't wait to see how the TransitConnect is received when it hits the dealerships.

 

Having driven both a Sienna and a similar late model Kia Sedona, the Sienna is a far superior vehicle. The only advantage the Sedona has is price, which as we know is not the deciding factor when buying a family vehicle you intend to own for a long time.

 

Nearly every minivan owner I know has an Odyssey - that is the norm at least in Central Ohio. Dodge and Chrysler sell on gadgets and price, which is probably killing the Korean models.

 

My wife and I will be buying a minivan to replace the Corolla in the next year or so, but I'm waiting to see if Chrysler goes belly-up and I can get a new Grand Caravan for something like 50% off in a firesale. I'd take the risk on a new full-sized minivan without a warranty for $15,000.

Edited April 9, 2009 by taxman100

[NickF1011]

Having driven both a Sienna and a similar late model Kia Sedona, the Sienna is a far superior vehicle. The only advantage the Sedona has is price, which as we know is not the deciding factor when buying a family vehicle you intend to own for a long time.

 

Nearly every minivan owner I know has an Odyssey - that is the norm at least in Central Ohio. Dodge and Chrysler sell on gadgets and price, which is probably killing the Korean models.

 

Well, according to the IIHS, the Sedona is the safest minivan on the market. That goes a long way toward convincing its target audience.

[aneekr]

Having driven both a Sienna and a similar late model Kia Sedona, the Sienna is a far superior vehicle. The only advantage the Sedona has is price, which as we know is not the deciding factor when buying a family vehicle you intend to own for a long time.

 

Nearly every minivan owner I know has an Odyssey - that is the norm at least in Central Ohio. Dodge and Chrysler sell on gadgets and price, which is probably killing the Korean models.

Here in Central Indiana, retail consumers who purchase new minivans tend to gravitate toward Siennas (assembled in the Hoosier state!) and Odysseys as well. Which makes perfect sense, because from the perspective of someone seeking a family vehicle (a minivan, specifically) for long term ownership, these two products are the only real contenders.

 

HMC/Kia and Chrysler can pursue the rental fleet and subprime buyer markets for minivans.

[Critic]

I can't wait to see how the TransitConnect is received when it hits the dealerships.

 

I still have problems when I think of that Ed. It fills no purpose an Escape doesn't fill. And then Escape has more 'comfort'. As a design study, yes it was made to work, but for what purpose? To take away sales from any 5 passenger truck/van? Family size has probably now shrunk from 2.5 kids to an even 2.

 

The other .5 will be buying the Fiat 500's.

[FordBuyer]

Here in Central Indiana, retail consumers who purchase new minivans tend to gravitate toward Siennas (assembled in the Hoosier state!) and Odysseys as well. Which makes perfect sense, because from the perspective of someone seeking a family vehicle (a minivan, specifically) for long term ownership, these two products are the only real contenders.

 

HMC/Kia and Chrysler can pursue the rental fleet and subprime buyer markets for minivans.

 

I would like to see Ford reenter the minivan market with a small minivan based off the next generation Focus platform that gets at least 30mpg highway and 23mpg+ city. With CAFE back and only going up, it would be waste of money to pursue the contracting full sized minivan market where eveyone now is losing money on that segment. NYC is full of Sienna's which tells you Toyota is making no money on that vehicle. As CAFE standards increase, small hatches, SUV's, CUV's, small station wagons will make comeback with those who want cargo room whether it be kids, pets, or hauling around bulky items.

[Critic]

NYC is full of Sienna's which tells you Toyota is making no money on that vehicle. As CAFE standards increase, small hatches, SUV's, CUV's, small station wagons will make comeback with those who want cargo room whether it be kids, pets, or hauling around bulky items.

WAIT NYC? You mean their being used as Taxi's? It's like the 2 seat Segway was touted as "Wouldn't you like to see this in NYC?" uh... no, because their is still no place to park, that city has and needs mass transit, personal ownership is cost prohibitive their. It's like a farmer in Iowa needs a cigarette boat.

[silvrsvt]

HMC/Kia and Chrysler can pursue the rental fleet and subprime buyer markets for minivans.

 

BULLSHIT! All those Honda and Toyota Minivans are rental fleet queens...when I travel for work, we ALWAYS get a Siennas and Odysseys as rentals to drive (I perfer the Odyssey to the Sienna, its a better driver)

 

At least next week I'm supposed to an SUV instead of a Minivan

[silvrsvt]

I still have problems when I think of that Ed. It fills no purpose an Escape doesn't fill. And then Escape has more 'comfort'. As a design study, yes it was made to work, but for what purpose? To take away sales from any 5 passenger truck/van? Family size has probably now shrunk from 2.5 kids to an even 2.

 

I wonder about the TC myself, but I only see a market of about 40-60K vehicles a year for it, with the vast majority of them being sold to fleet style operations. I don't see it doing much of anything in the personal use market, unlike some people around here

[Edstock]

I still have problems when I think of that Ed. It fills no purpose an Escape doesn't fill. And then Escape has more 'comfort'. As a design study, yes it was made to work, but for what purpose? To take away sales from any 5 passenger truck/van? Family size has probably now shrunk from 2.5 kids to an even 2.

 

The other .5 will be buying the Fiat 500's.

You have a point, no doubt about it.

 

My comment about the TC is that with the spike in gas and the current economic situation, the TC MIGHT have a surprisingly large appeal to those who want the carrying space with a small 4-cyl vehicle, instead of the Mazda mini, which is a swell design, but can't carry very much.

 

As well, the slider full-size minivan market is a "mature" one, with all the major players spending major bucks to hold their market share.

 

The question is, is it worth it for Ford to try to get back into the slider full-size minivan market? :shrug:

[NickF1011]

With CAFE back and only going up, it would be waste of money to pursue the contracting full sized minivan market

 

Anyone else see a sad humor in this?

 

People originally bought minivans because they were easier to drive and more fuel efficient than full size vans. Now we are being forced out of vehicles that were created as a compromise to begin with.

[Catalepsy]

How many people are you expected to carry in a Focus minivan? I don't think you can squeeze more than 4 people in one...and at that point, it is a Focus hatchback. NYC is going all hybrid soon...Everything else except for Escape Hybrid & Altima Hybrid is going away. I've seen some Camry Hybridgs. I'm sure Fusion Hybrid will show up too.

 

 

 

 

I would like to see Ford reenter the minivan market with a small minivan based off the next generation Focus platform that gets at least 30mpg highway and 23mpg+ city. With CAFE back and only going up, it would be waste of money to pursue the contracting full sized minivan market where eveyone now is losing money on that segment. NYC is full of Sienna's which tells you Toyota is making no money on that vehicle. As CAFE standards increase, small hatches, SUV's, CUV's, small station wagons will make comeback with those who want cargo room whether it be kids, pets, or hauling around bulky items.

[Critic]

Anyone else see a sad humor in this?

 

People originally bought minivans because they were easier to drive and more fuel efficient than full size vans. Now we are being forced out of vehicles that were created as a compromise to begin with.

Well how have the 'mini'-van's ballooned since the first ones?

 

The good thing about those were 4 cylinders, and carrying more than 4 people, now their land yachts.

 

Drop a 4 cylinder Eco-Boost into every medium size vehicle Ford produces and watch the sales go up. No reason to try to full-fill every market segment, Your spreading yourself too thin with nothing to put into each segment that way.

 

Make me happy? Bring back Chromed-trimmed vent windows. Maybe in a Fiat 500. sweeeeeeeeeet!

[battyr]

Lots of people are copying the Chrysler minivan. Too much competition and not enough profit.

 

Ford is better to sell the Flex above the Caravan with much more profit. And sell the 8 passanger Transit Connect below the Caravan with the same capabilities but much lower cost. Add to that, the next C-Max as an economy minded family van, that can carry 4 adults and 2 children.

 

It will be interesting what will happen with the next generation Ford Galaxy van.

[Michael Reynolds]

Well I suppose a low price point doesn't always do the trick.......

 

.....and that's for all the folks that whine about the Flex being overpriced.

 

And while we are at it, Kia moved 26,915 Sedonas last year.

[matthewq4b]

Anyone else see a sad humor in this?

 

People originally bought minivans because they were easier to drive and more fuel efficient than full size vans. Now we are being forced out of vehicles that were created as a compromise to begin with.

 

 

Actually the majority of people originally bought Mini-Vans instead Full size and Mid sized station wagons. Prior to the Mini Van the station wagon was the defacto family hauler. The mini-van pretty much sounded the death bell on the station wagon. Nowadays very few manufactures even make a true station a wagon. In the 70's and into the early 80's just about every single 4 door model (and some 2 doors) had a wagon variant.

 

 

Matthew

[NickF1011]

Actually the majority of people originally bought Mini-Vans instead Full size and Mid sized station wagons. Prior to the Mini Van the station wagon was the defacto family hauler. The mini-van pretty much sounded the death bell on the station wagon. Nowadays very few manufactures even make a true station a wagon. In the 70's and into the early 80's just about every single 4 door model (and some 2 doors) had a wagon variant.

 

 

Matthew

 

Eh I see your point. Seems every larger family I knew growing up had a fullsize van though, ours included. A fullsize van still really can't be beat for family travel comfort by anything on the market.

[jpd80]

How many people are you expected to carry in a Focus minivan? I don\'t think you can squeeze more than 4 people in one...and at that point, it is a Focus hatchback. NYC is going all hybrid soon...Everything else except for Escape Hybrid & Altima Hybrid is going away. I\'ve seen some Camry Hybridgs. I\'m sure Fusion Hybrid will show up too.

It sounds like he's talking about the Ford C-Max but

I think the S-Max would be a much better vehicle:

 

Edited April 9, 2009 by jpd80

[rmc523]

WAIT NYC? You mean their being used as Taxi's? It's like the 2 seat Segway was touted as "Wouldn't you like to see this in NYC?" uh... no, because their is still no place to park, that city has and needs mass transit, personal ownership is cost prohibitive their. It's like a farmer in Iowa needs a cigarette boat.

 

Yeah, haven't you seen "Cash Cab?" He drives a Sienna in that.

[forddaughter]

I for one don't like the fact Ford has gotten out of the mini van segment. We've owned two Windstars and LOVE them! They are a great alternative to the big old Econoline van. I use an electric wheelchair and it fits perfectly in the back of our Windstar. Drove the Econoline and it was way too big. We are hoping the Flex will work for us, but we aren't sure.

[LSFan00]

Old Ford tried and failed @ the American minivan market. An S-max type thing, or smaller version as above might be a nice idea. They don't need it right now but in a few years after continuing to build a non-bankrupt/safety-first focused image it might be worth another go, if the Chrysler products do, inevitably, fade into oblivion.

 

Yes, a minivan has a sliding door.