TStag Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Just been reading some of the GM forums. To say that Pontiac fans are livid with GM is probably an understatement. Think Ford will pick up lots of sales. Get those Mustangs ready...... Very sad for Pontiac tbh. Absolutely loved their cars. In truth the only GM made US brand that I truly loved. Maybe it's because I grew up on Smokey and the Bandit and Knightrider like many other Brits. Which is why I never understood why GM tried to sell us Cadillacs and Hummers when cars like the G8 and Soltace could have found a place in our hearts! Still great news for Ford, but sad for true car fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Just been reading some of the GM forums. To say that Pontiac fans are livid with GM is probably an understatement. Think Ford will pick up lots of sales. Get those Mustangs ready...... Very sad for Pontiac tbh. Absolutely loved their cars. In truth the only GM made US brand that I truly loved. Maybe it's because I grew up on Smokey and the Bandit and Knightrider like many other Brits. Which is why I never understood why GM tried to sell us Cadillacs and Hummers when cars like the G8 and Soltace could have found a place in our hearts! Still great news for Ford, but sad for true car fans. I don't really seeing it be that much of an increase for Ford because Pontiac doesn't sell all that much to begin with.....and their volume sellers are mostly fleet/rental, a market which Ford has begun to stray from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintlaz1 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Just been reading some of the GM forums. To say that Pontiac fans are livid with GM is probably an understatement. Think Ford will pick up lots of sales. Get those Mustangs ready...... Very sad for Pontiac tbh. Absolutely loved their cars. In truth the only GM made US brand that I truly loved. Maybe it's because I grew up on Smokey and the Bandit and Knightrider like many other Brits. Which is why I never understood why GM tried to sell us Cadillacs and Hummers when cars like the G8 and Soltace could have found a place in our hearts! Still great news for Ford, but sad for true car fans. i feel bad for thier fans, i would be livid as well if i heard the end of Mercury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Just been reading some of the GM forums. To say that Pontiac fans are livid with GM is probably an understatement. Think Ford will pick up lots of sales. Get those Mustangs ready...... Very sad for Pontiac tbh. Absolutely loved their cars. In truth the only GM made US brand that I truly loved. Maybe it's because I grew up on Smokey and the Bandit and Knightrider like many other Brits. Which is why I never understood why GM tried to sell us Cadillacs and Hummers when cars like the G8 and Soltace could have found a place in our hearts! Still great news for Ford, but sad for true car fans. Cars like the G8 and Soltace may end up selling badged as a Chevy, Buick, or Cadillac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 This might help Ford justify building a GRWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Cars like the G8 and Soltace may end up selling badged as a Chevy, Buick, or Cadillac. Yep, and with the G6 being their higest volume seller, you can bet that will rebadged as a small Buick along with the Solstice. The G8 would make a good Impala SS model. Just put some porholes on the front fenders, and Voila, you have a Buick. Nothing to it. The only trouble is that GM spent a lot of time and money giving Pontiacs that distnctive exhaust sound and that Sporty image, something Buick hasn't had for years. Not sure younger people will buy a Buick even if it is sporty. Btw, never personally liked that Pontiac exhaust note. Kind of like fake leather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 This might help Ford justify building a GRWD. Or you could look at it the other way.......look how unsuccessful GM's Zeta was.....they're now killing the whole brand that it's first Zeta vehicle was on. Although I do think if handled properly, GRWD could work. Yep, and with the G6 being their higest volume seller, you can bet that will rebadged as a small Buick along with the Solstice. The G8 would make a good Impala SS model. Just put some porholes on the front fenders, and Voila, you have a Buick. Nothing to it. The only trouble is that GM spent a lot of time and money giving Pontiacs that distnctive exhaust sound and that Sporty image, something Buick hasn't had for years. Not sure younger people will buy a Buick even if it is sporty. Btw, never personally liked that Pontiac exhaust note. Kind of like fake leather. I dunno if Solstice/Sky will be "moved" to a different brand.....it's a niche car and both brands using it will be out of GM soon. Plus the gov't may not like to see that GM's spending money on developing a new sports car (outside of Corvette) rather than it's core lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Ford has been successful with the Panther platform because they are the only ones that make a full sized, full frame RWD. What the GRWD needs to become a reallity is the elimination of the competition. The GRWD can compete against the 300 alone, but not against the 300 and G8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 When you think about, it's pretty amazing that a country as supposedly as rich as ours, and with almost 350 million people can't support three American based auto companies. Just goes to show you how badly our economic fortunes haves sunk. If you take away fleet sales, this American market can't even support an 8 million new car retail market. Abysmal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Ford has been successful with the Panther platform because they are the only ones that make a full sized, full frame RWD. What the GRWD needs to become a reallity is the elimination of the competition. The GRWD can compete against the 300 alone, but not against the 300 and G8. Have you seen Panther volume lately? The G8 is almost on par with Crown Vic sales now, and exceeding Grand Marquis if I recall. Town Car is in a somewhat different price range, so that comparison is a little more difficult to make. Had the G8 been given to Chevrolet in the first place though, its volume likely would be at least double just due to brand affiliation. Compare G3 and G5 sales to their Chevrolet counterparts if you need evidence. What GRWD needs to become reality is Ford making significant profits. That's really the only limiting factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) What is crazy is that people assume because GM failed with a good RWD car that Ford will too. GM could have picked Chevrolet or Buick to launch the zetas but noooo they had to pick Pontiac. Holden sells zetas in the Middle East as Lumina and Statesman but did they use thos products? No. Ford watches on with a bemused smirk, the stay at home Falcon and Territory continue to develop and the teams in AUS and Nth America constantly talk about integration on future products. GRWD may have been halted but the Falcon, Mustang and Territory sure haven't. Edited April 27, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 This thread needs to be closed or moved to the Competition section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 What is crazy is that people assume because GM failed with a good RWD car that Ford will too.GM could have picked Chevrolet or Buick to launch the zetas but noooo they had to pick Pontiac. Holden sells zetas in the Middle East as Lumina and Statesman but did they use thos products? No. Ford watches on with a bemused smirk, the stay at home Falcon and Territory continue to develop and the teams in AUS and Nth America constantly talk about integration on future products. GRWD may have been halted but the Falcon, Mustang and Territory sure haven't. I don't know if that first part was directed at me at all, but just for the record if it wasn't clear, I wasn't saying Ford could not be successful, I was just saying look at GM and how it failed. Ford would do it much better, and would most likely be successful at it. This thread needs to be closed or moved to the Competition section. I was wondering why this was posted in this section too, until I saw he loosely related it to Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probeGT Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) When you think about, it's pretty amazing that a country as supposedly as rich as ours, and with almost 350 million people can't support three American based auto companies. Just goes to show you how badly our economic fortunes haves sunk. If you take away fleet sales, this American market can't even support an 8 million new car retail market. Abysmal. I don't think it's so much that we CAN'T, its just that many of us have chosen not to. And when I say us I'm not including myself, because I've had nothing but Fords. Edited April 27, 2009 by probeGT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Cars like the G8 and Soltace may end up selling badged as a Chevy, Buick, or Cadillac. Not currently in the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 This thread needs to be closed or moved to the Competition section. (Argh, I wish I could move threads) But anyhow, as long as it stays somewhat related to the impact on Ford, I'll keep it open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Henderson already stated this morning G8, Solstice and Sky die with their respective brands,. No rebadging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 When you think about, it's pretty amazing that a country as supposedly as rich as ours, and with almost 350 million people can't support three American based auto companies. Just goes to show you how badly our economic fortunes haves sunk. If you take away fleet sales, this American market can't even support an 8 million new car retail market. Abysmal. The problem isn't sales, it's the overhead and legacy cost the Big 3 have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 i have truly waited for this day..pontiac ripped me off for like 20% interest back in 1992 or so...glad to see GM get everything they deserve and yes i have and will never look at buying any GM product...mucked me over once and now in some small way i mucked you over...GM...you are getting everything you deserve for screwing with your customers....Honda accord (made by american workers i might add) in the garage alongside many vintage honda bikes and a few hodaka's throwing in because oh those chrome tanks are sexy as hell....i havent felt this good since i had a bum at corner of western and cicero by me a bottle of mad dog 4040 as a kid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) The problem isn't sales, it's the overhead and legacy cost the Big 3 have. "Legacy costs" weren't a problem until sales tanked. And they are only a problem now because GM didn't invest in retiree health care or the pension fund. Not to mention, they paid for all the hourly buyouts with money out of the pension fund. They did this to themselves. Stop blaming the workers. Edited April 27, 2009 by Pioneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 The bulk of their fan base crying foul are the guys with a GTO Judge in the garage while driving their Camry every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I don't know if that first part was directed at me at all, but just for the record if it wasn't clear, I wasn't saying Ford could not be successful, I was just saying look at GM and how it failed. Ford would do it much better, and would most likely be successful at it. Not at all, it's been my stance that Ford looked at GRWD and decided to do things differently. That could mean simply applying those GRWD principles to the three continuing RWD vehicles. While Falcon, Territory and Mustang are separate vehicles, both FoA and FNA have been working much closer over the past few years. Heck, you may find that being so specialized, the three vehicles are better separated and using reasonably common power trains and electrical systems enables more immediate gains than a GRWD. There is still a bit of wiggle room with "One Ford" regarding regional niche products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 So, has anyone explained how killing Pontiac helps out GM? Because from where I sit, I can't figure out how killing Pontiac helps GM, seeings how killing Oldsmobile didn't help GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 So, has anyone explained how killing Pontiac helps out GM? Because from where I sit, I can't figure out how killing Pontiac helps GM, seeings how killing Oldsmobile didn't help GM. It gives the appearance that GM upper management is making tough decisions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 i have truly waited for this day..pontiac ripped me off for like 20% interest back in 1992 or so...glad to see GM get everything they deserve and yes i have and will never look at buying any GM product...mucked me over once and now in some small way i mucked you over...GM...you are getting everything you deserve for screwing with your customers....Honda accord (made by american workers i might add) in the garage alongside many vintage honda bikes and a few hodaka's throwing in because oh those chrome tanks are sexy as hell....i havent felt this good since i had a bum at corner of western and cicero by me a bottle of mad dog 4040 as a kid.... You weren't ripped off by Pontiac, you were ripped off by your dealer, and you were dumb enough to play along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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