I am a Camaro Owner

[Deanh]

Gee Dean - all I hear from you is whining and no solutions to the problem.

 

How about this: Ford dealers can choose to opt in to a factory program whereby a customer can order the vehicle they want directly from the Ford build and price website after being pre-approved by Ford Credit online. Then they choose a local participating dealer to take delivery. The price is set (X plan e.g.) and agreed to by the dealers when they agree to participate. The order goes in at highest priority (lowest numerically) and does not affect dealer allocations. Buyer is charged a deposit that is non-refundable at a certain point in the build process but that credit can be applied towards another vehicle. Allow the buyer to track the vehicle's detailed progress and status via the website.

 

The dealer gets a X plan sale with NO upfront work at all and no risk - if the buyer walks away then it's Ford's issue, not the dealer's. The buyer is happy that he can get the vehicle he wants at a fair price without having to deal with dealership sales people.

 

This is a win-win for dealers and Ford but there is NO way dealers would allow this to happen. They'd sue under the franchise laws and win of course.

 

Now let's hear Dean cry about why this is a bad idea..........

point is Kirb, for some reason everyone thinks the problem lies at the feet of the Dealers and everyone yells get rid of them ignoring the consequences. Real;ity is we are a conduit, and OUR hands are tied, we relat the info WE are fed...but some here feel its OUR issue...its NOT, I have stated numerous times the system is flawed, imperfect and frustrating to say the least...is staing reality whining?....please answer that, if answering questions honestly comes off that way I may as well just stop because obviously the answers are falling on deaf ears and you guys have made your minds up and wont be swayed by insider input. Very easy to sit back and critique, but its obvious here you guys are on the outside looking in and do NOT know what dealers go through to appese customers all the while answering to Ford. So, your answer now is just to give everyone X plan? Good Lord.....lets just jack up the MSRP so the new X plan reflects what WAS MSRP. Once again you guys are touching on price fixing across the board, so obviously X Plan is no longer a "deal"....want to know how the public would react to that...sooner or later THAT wouldnt be considered a "deal" and people would want better. As for the ordering...all that what was stated can be acheived right NOW through dealers...what you stated is mirrored through the order verification process, prices are pre-negotiated, deposits are taken, customer is pre-approved and takes delivery when the car arrives....but, tracking is STILL an issue and commonly IS inaccurate...

[Deanh]

Yes, it is flawed in some ways. But there are dealers out there that don't know how to use it. Why do you think the tracking section still so busy after it's been closed for a year?

 

And while some train tracking is done via RF, individual cars are tracked by scanning the barcodes on the windows that get removed at prep.

heres a classic case. 11 vans ordered LAST year....Vin Visibility had ETA of 1/25....they arrived here two weeks ago....MISBUILT....Fords answer?....contact your Zone rep....also, my Fiesta was meant to be here two days ago...at least thats what Vin Visibility says.....I wouldnt say some dealers dont know hoew to use it, i would say some dealership PERSONNEL dont know, but I guarantee the inventory clerk does....

[Deanh]

The point is, it wouldn't cost Ford anything. All it would take is a PDI center at AAI or wherever your car is made. After finishing off the paperwork at their dealership, the customer can fly (on their own dime, usually costs less than $150 one way from anywhere in the US) to Detroit, Ford could shuttle you to the PDI center, take delivery, you get temp tags and off you go. Charge the PDI cost, they have to pay it anyways. Customer gets to save about $400, dealer still makes the sale, and the customer gets a memorable "adventure" to associate with the car.

 

And THAT's what made my friend's Volvo purchase stick out on his mind, and why he would have bought another before Ford sold Volvo to Geely. Was the thrill of being one of the first to drive his car down the Autobahn. Instead of waiting for a phonecall that might come someday.

hey, i like the idea...just dont see Ma and Pa flying out for their Taurus....and driving back to So Cal.....

[ViperPilot]

heres a classic case. 11 vans ordered LAST year....Vin Visibility had ETA of 1/25....they arrived here two weeks ago....MISBUILT....Fords answer?....contact your Zone rep....also, my Fiesta was meant to be here two days ago...at least thats what Vin Visibility says.....I wouldnt say some dealers dont know hoew to use it, i would say some dealership PERSONNEL dont know, but I guarantee the inventory clerk does....

Ok, we'll split hairs. Are the dealership personnel that seem capable to perform a $50000 sale incapable from punching in a VIN?

 

Vehicle Visibility is an automated system. Nobody is there punching in VINs and updating the status daily.

 

Car gets scanned, a record is made in the computer. ETA means ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL. But where the car IS is indeed fact. If it says it's on a train passing Dipshit Indiana, then that's where it is.

 

As far as your misbuilt units, that's an issue (one of many) YOU have with Ford. It has nothing to do with VV. It's like being pissed off at the computer because the weather report said it was going to be sunny today. The system just relays the info, it doesn't make it up.

 

In my personal experience, the majority of misbuilt units are from wrongly coded orders, whether a clerical one or someone didn't understand the order guide (for whatever reason). Once the order reaches the plant, the build system draws information directly from the order codes. And then they're backchecked in the system. So have you investigated who made the mistake? The Zone rep should be able to pull up your orders and see who made the error. Was it the factory or did you order guy mess it up?

[ViperPilot]

hey, i like the idea...just dont see Ma and Pa flying out for their Taurus....and driving back to So Cal.....

The thing is that it wouldn't BE everyone.

 

There are some people that view cars as appliances, and others see them as extensions of themselves. You must surely see that.

 

But for every 20 Ma and Pa buying a Taurus or Fusion, there might be a Mustang/Taurus SHO/F150 buyer that would love the chance.

 

And when they have a good experience, guess who'll get their business when they need a Taurus/Fusion/Edge for their family? Both you and I do.

[Deanh]

Ok, we'll split hairs. Are the dealership personnel that seem capable to perform a $50000 sale incapable from punching in a VIN?

 

Vehicle Visibility is an automated system. Nobody is there punching in VINs and updating the status daily.

 

Car gets scanned, a record is made in the computer. ETA means ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL. But where the car IS is indeed fact. If it says it's on a train passing Dipshit Indiana, then that's where it is.

 

As far as your misbuilt units, that's an issue (one of many) YOU have with Ford. It has nothing to do with VV. It's like being pissed off at the computer because the weather report said it was going to be sunny today. The system just relays the info, it doesn't make it up.

 

In my personal experience, the majority of misbuilt units are from wrongly coded orders, whether a clerical one or someone didn't understand the order guide (for whatever reason). Once the order reaches the plant, the build system draws information directly from the order codes. And then they're backchecked in the system. So have you investigated who made the mistake? The Zone rep should be able to pull up your orders and see who made the error. Was it the factory or did you order guy mess it up?

see, and this is where you reflect your lack of internal knowledge of the goings on in a dealership...exactly how many hats do you expect individuals to wear...come on Viper...just ask a sales personel what they have to go through to be certified, what they have to be familiar with to demonstarate features on avehicle and the expected delivery process, check out the manual on a Navigation system alone....theres a reason people have different titles like inventory, payroll, sales etc etc, and ALL managers here have the capacity to track a unit no problem, its simple, even if its somewhat mis-leading and innacurate....the misbuilt units were shoved down our throats due to an upfitter wanting to get the vans off HIS lot due to a software issue with WorkSolutions. FACT is SOMEONE basically said get them out of here and let the dealership deal with it, oh, and put CD units in all 11 units instead of the ORDERED Worksolutions. Thankfully the customer was ok with just getting the units...however we had to shortsell the units as an "apology". I was the one whom ordered the units the orders were fine.

[Deanh]

The thing is that it wouldn't BE everyone.

 

There are some people that view cars as appliances, and others see them as extensions of themselves. You must surely see that.

 

But for every 20 Ma and Pa buying a Taurus or Fusion, there might be a Mustang/Taurus SHO/F150 buyer that would love the chance.

 

And when they have a good experience, guess who'll get their business when they need a Taurus/Fusion/Edge for their family? Both you and I do.

Like i said, Raptor, and gT500....that process would ROCK.....mainstream...no. Think of the overhead alone....a complete specialized staff and support group would have to be hired and trained....and thats $ which would have to be passed on somewhere...

[akirby]

point is Kirb, for some reason everyone thinks the problem lies at the feet of the Dealers and everyone yells get rid of them ignoring the consequences. Real;ity is we are a conduit, and OUR hands are tied, we relat the info WE are fed...but some here feel its OUR issue...its NOT, I have stated numerous times the system is flawed, imperfect and frustrating to say the least...is staing reality whining?....please answer that, if answering questions honestly comes off that way I may as well just stop because obviously the answers are falling on deaf ears and you guys have made your minds up and wont be swayed by insider input. Very easy to sit back and critique, but its obvious here you guys are on the outside looking in and do NOT know what dealers go through to appese customers all the while answering to Ford. So, your answer now is just to give everyone X plan? Good Lord.....lets just jack up the MSRP so the new X plan reflects what WAS MSRP. Once again you guys are touching on price fixing across the board, so obviously X Plan is no longer a "deal"....want to know how the public would react to that...sooner or later THAT wouldnt be considered a "deal" and people would want better. As for the ordering...all that what was stated can be acheived right NOW through dealers...what you stated is mirrored through the order verification process, prices are pre-negotiated, deposits are taken, customer is pre-approved and takes delivery when the car arrives....but, tracking is STILL an issue and commonly IS inaccurate...

 

I agree that communication could be better, but as viperpilot pointed out in a lot of cases the dealer isn't using the system properly.

 

What customers want is consistency and there certainly is no consistency between dealers.

 

So make the web option a minimum of $500 over invoice so that dealers could negotiate below that. You'd still have people using it just to avoid the typical dealer allocation and ordering issues.

[ViperPilot]

etc, and ALL managers here have the capacity to track a unit no problem, its simple, even if its somewhat mis-leading and innacurate....

Anyone with access to FMCDealer or have a CSID has access to Vehicle Visibilty. I can even access it from home. Are you saying that you have sales staff that (apparently have to be smart enough to jump through the training hoops) can't access VV? I'm not a salesman, and I can.

[Deanh]

I agree that communication could be better, but as viperpilot pointed out in a lot of cases the dealer isn't using the system properly.

 

What customers want is consistency and there certainly is no consistency between dealers.

 

So make the web option a minimum of $500 over invoice so that dealers could negotiate below that. You'd still have people using it just to avoid the typical dealer allocation and ordering issues.

be better....hell yeah..it SUCKS....and theirs a website called Dealers ask Ford...what a bloody joke...the defeat answer after two to three days of eluding straight answers rather than saying "I dont know" is "sk your zone rep"....its hilariously inept. CRAZY i tell you. And Kirbs, how can their be consistancy between dealers and the customers when the consistancy is flawed at the source...THATS my issue, people constantly berate ( and in some situations rightfully so ) dealers when the issues start at the source. So, the answer is jettison the dealer...man, you think the situation is bad now....just IMAGINE what that request would reap...MAYHEM! And quick question, how long do you think a dealer could stay in business if the average transaction was $500 over invoice or LESS....and you STILL want to be treated like royalty?......funny, everyone wants everything as cheap/ simple and painfree as possible....where are those magic beans anyway....hey, lets all work for $8.00 an hour while we are at it....I wish EVERYONE here would come and sell for a few weeks...like it or not, it WOULD give you a totally different perspective on what individuals go through, and are EXPECTED to go through to appese the public...it would also give some a new found respect for those in the industry, and maybe make them think twice about their prediposed game plan when they enter a dealership....dealing with the public is an interesting beast, especially in this "Its all about Me " society today...even more so when the products pricing happens to be NEGOTIABLE.....

[Deanh]

Anyone with access to FMCDealer or have a CSID has access to Vehicle Visibilty. I can even access it from home. Are you saying that you have sales staff that (apparently have to be smart enough to jump through the training hoops) can't access VV? I'm not a salesman, and I can.

correct....all managers do...sales personell have access limitations so as not to distract them from their tasks at hand...ie helping customers onh the lot....if necessary they just ask a Manager...easy....boy, I would LOVE you to have to take all the tests for certification......you have NO idea....and all for an income you wouldnt work for......

[akirby]

be better....hell yeah..it SUCKS....and theirs a website called Dealers ask Ford...what a bloody joke...the defeat answer after two to three days of eluding straight answers rather than saying "I dont know" is "sk your zone rep"....its hilariously inept. CRAZY i tell you. And Kirbs, how can their be consistancy between dealers and the customers when the consistancy is flawed at the source...THATS my issue, people constantly berate ( and in some situations rightfully so ) dealers when the issues start at the source. So, the answer is jettison the dealer...man, you think the situation is bad now....just IMAGINE what that request would reap...MAYHEM! And quick question, how long do you think a dealer could stay in business if the average transaction was $500 over invoice or LESS....and you STILL want to be treated like royalty?......funny, everyone wants everything as cheap/ simple and painfree as possible....where are those magic beans anyway....hey, lets all work for $8.00 an hour while we are at it....I wish EVERYONE here would come and sell for a few weeks...like it or not, it WOULD give you a totally different perspective on what individuals go through, and are EXPECTED to go through to appese the public...it would also give some a new found respect for those in the industry, and maybe make them think twice about their prediposed game plan when they enter a dealership....dealing with the public is an interesting beast, especially in this "Its all about Me " society today...even more so when the products pricing happens to be NEGOTIABLE.....

 

I was in retail sales for 6 years before and during college so I understand the challenges of dealing with the public.

 

How should Ford handle dealerships who lie to customers and/or provide poor customer satisfaction? Currently Ford has no recourse and when the dealer screws up then Ford gets the blame (I'll never buy another Ford again because Ford couldn't fix my car, etc. etc. etc.).

[pony racer]

how up to date is V.V. once a car is in transit?

and is it normal for a car not to move for 5 days once on a train?

[timmm55]

Once a vehicle is ordered, tracking it shouldn't require dealer involvement. If the buyer has a VIN or bar code they should be able to follow it from their computer. They could use a temporary and reuseable tracking device.

 

In this age of computer tracking (Fed Ex?) it should be doable. Real Time. No excuses.

[Deanh]

Once a vehicle is ordered, tracking it shouldn't require dealer involvement. If the buyer has a VIN or bar code they should be able to follow it from their computer. They could use a temporary and reuseable tracking device.

 

In this age of computer tracking (Fed Ex?) it should be doable. Real Time. No excuses.

now THERES something i can wholeheartedly agree with....the Fed Ex system is great....hell, the cars are all shipped with bar codes, whats different?

[ViperPilot]

correct....all managers do...sales personell have access limitations so as not to distract them from their tasks at hand...ie helping customers onh the lot....if necessary they just ask a Manager...easy....boy, I would LOVE you to have to take all the tests for certification......you have NO idea....and all for an income you wouldnt work for......

It works both ways. I have 2 college diplomas and 22 years experience in the field to get my job. Don't think the hiring requirements for a dealership are that high.

 

The grass is always greener.

[ViperPilot]

now THERES something i can wholeheartedly agree with....the Fed Ex system is great....hell, the cars are all shipped with bar codes, whats different?

It's not different. That's what Vehicle Visibility is. When the customer I looked up 10 minutes ago sent me a PM because his dealer can't I could tell him his car is sitting on an Allied Trucking Ramp in Maryland since July 4th. His response? "Cool, thanks!"

 

Now why isn't Vehicle Visibility just available to the general public?

 

I can tell you, but I'd like someone else to answer....

 

Anyone...Anyone...Bueller....?

[Deanh]

I was in retail sales for 6 years before and during college so I understand the challenges of dealing with the public.

 

How should Ford handle dealerships who lie to customers and/or provide poor customer satisfaction? Currently Ford has no recourse and when the dealer screws up then Ford gets the blame (I'll never buy another Ford again because Ford couldn't fix my car, etc. etc. etc.).

whenever someone deals with the public there will be good and bad stories....although experience tells me there is ALWAYS two sides to the story. Sad thing is, and another reflection of todays self obsessed society, he whom screams the loudest gets catered too....as for poor CSI etc, all I can comment on is my own dealership, and there we have zero problems...internal issues are dealt with here with bonus's based on CSI and performance....and heres a counter to the dealer screwing up...what recourse does a DEALER have when Ford screws up....trust me, trying to hold Ford accountable for certain issues can be like peeing up a rope...sometimes it gets so drawn out and frustrating we just move on and would rather not deal with it....the CD's for workstations is a prime example.....

[Deanh]

It's not different. That's what Vehicle Visibility is. When the customer I looked up 10 minutes ago sent me a PM because his dealer can't I could tell him his car is sitting on an Allied Trucking Ramp in Maryland since July 4th. His response? "Cool, thanks!"

 

Now why isn't Vehicle Visibility just available to the general public?

 

I can tell you, but I'd like someone else to answer....

 

Anyone...Anyone...Bueller....?

good question if on THEIR car...I will say this...I dont beleive I can track another dealers units, only my own dealerships....privacy act?.....imagine a divorcee knowing hubbys car is coming when and where...and she holds a grudge.....lol

[ViperPilot]

good question if on THEIR car...I will say this...I dont beleive I can track another dealers units, only my own dealerships....privacy act?.....imagine a divorcee knowing hubbys car is coming when and where...and she holds a grudge.....lol

Only an idiot would let an ex-wife know what the VIN of their ordered car is.

 

Like I said earlier, Ford could set it up with very little cost and a high ROI as far as customer satisfaction goes.

 

All you would need is the order number/VIN and a PIN (for their order ONLY) -- could be integrated right onto the DORA,

 

"Here's the number you need to track your order, this is the same info I have" and viola -- a lot less "where's my car?" phonecalls.

 

You would be surprised how little information it takes to make 90% of the customers happy. Sure there are maybe 10% out there that are never happy. But why not make the effort to try to aim for the 90%?

Edited July 6, 2010 by ViperPilot

[Deanh]

Only an idiot would let an ex-wife know what the VIN of their ordered car is.

 

Like I said earlier, Ford could set it up with very little cost and a high ROI as far as customer satisfaction goes.

 

All you would need is the order number/VIN and a PIN (for their order ONLY) -- could be integrated right onto the DORA,

 

"Here's the number you need to track your order, this is the same info I have" and viola -- a lot less "where's my car?" phonecalls.

 

You would be surprised how little information it takes to make 90% of the customers happy. Sure there are maybe 10% out there that are never happy. But why not make the effort to try to aim for the 90%?

oh, i agree, but its in dire need of refinement...lets say I was the customer with the vans....eta SHOWS as 1/25....they ARRIVED 6/1...guess whom i would be screaming at...right...THE DEALER.....and yet THEY have nothing to do with it....point is computers are NOT gospel as so many think....give me a live voice ( SANS THE FRIGGEN VOICE PROMPT BS ) anyday....

[akirby]

It's not different. That's what Vehicle Visibility is. When the customer I looked up 10 minutes ago sent me a PM because his dealer can't I could tell him his car is sitting on an Allied Trucking Ramp in Maryland since July 4th. His response? "Cool, thanks!"

 

Now why isn't Vehicle Visibility just available to the general public?

 

I can tell you, but I'd like someone else to answer....

 

Anyone...Anyone...Bueller....?

 

Because the dealers don't want it to be available to the public?

[Deanh]

Because the dealers don't want it to be available to the public?

kirby...its NOT a dealer program...its FORDS....why would we care?

[akirby]

kirby...its NOT a dealer program...its FORDS....why would we care?

 

Because some dealers don't want Ford giving out information directly to the customer which might conflict with information the dealer is giving the customer?

[Deanh]

Because some dealers don't want Ford giving out information directly to the customer which might conflict with information the dealer is giving the customer?

dont agree in the slightest...no-one gains anything from that scenario....