robertlane Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 (edited) Hello everyone, My name is Kahdir and I've been a Mustang fan since I can remember. I planned on keeping my 2005 Mustang GT (VIN #1ZVFT82H955118929) forever... until some teenage girl texting while driving rear-ended my Mustang, doing over $9k in damage. Dissatisfied with the repairs after a lot of back & forth with my insurance company, I decided to replace it with a 2011 Mustang GT. I was able to chit chat with some of the Ford engineers at SEMA and heard that the order banks would open early for the new 5.0L. I had my dealer (the same one that I purchased my 2005 from) spec a car on 12/26/09, it was submitted on 1/18/10 (the day the order banks opened) and accepted on 1/19/10. Not quite sure why my car wasn't scheduled to be built until the week of May 10th (possible parts shortage on my options... :shrug: ) but it was built on May 14th with an ETA of May 22nd Well, May 22nd came and went... it was then updated to June 1st ETA. Ok, I thought... until others that ordered afterwards were receiving their cars :angry: . I think the final straw for me was the lack of updated info on my car while some were able to receive their cars in as little as 18 days . Well, I checked one finally time on Friday (6/25/10) -to no surprise still no update! (VIN #1ZVBP8CF7B5118634) During this extended torture of waiting for a car that was supposed to be delivered before Memorial Day weekend, I test drove a 2010 Camaro SS (6/11/10). While different in may ways to what I was used to, I was very pleased. For the next 2 weeks I debated in my mind the pros and cons of each vehicle... It was one of the toughest decisions I've ever had to make. I like both cars and even planned on owning both (be it a later time..) but not knowing what problems may or may not be afflicting my ordered 2011 Mustang was too much to chance. Without too much more rambling, here is my new toy It goes without saying that I LOVE Ford - but, I also love automobiles in general. . .if it's well designed, made and performs well then :wub: I am in the market for another wild ride. Right now I have a GT500KR and a Shelby Terlingua, but am debating between the following: Boss 302 (2012) GT350 (2011) Z28 (2012) The Camaro is a nice car and if it suits your taste, then you made the right decision. Edited July 6, 2010 by robertlane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 After the vehicle was made, I would have a choice of: pick it up at the plant and save the shipping fee, pick it up at the dealership or have it delivered to my home. Even a factory tour/visit option whenyou pick it up would be cool. A coworker of mine got a trip to Europe to pick up his Volvo at the plant, got to drive it for a few days and then brought it back to the plant where they shipped it off to his Volvo dealership in Canada. You can't even get a plant tour here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pony racer Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 To start, 1) Ford owns the Ford name. They set the level of customer satisfaction, and franchisees that can't maintain a positive customer satisfaction rating and their franchise is PULLED. Not allocation reduced. PULLED. Reduced allocation still allows a sh!tty dealer to screw around customers. "Well sir, we ordered your Mustang, no news yet but someday you'll get it. In the meantime we'll hold your deposit" or even better yet, when the dealer sells an ordered car out from under another buyer. I've seen it happen. 2) Ford dealers need to step up and get with this century. If I had a dime for every time that I had a customer said "please track my car for me my dealer doesn't know how/can't be bothered to look it up in Vehicle Visibility" I could retire. Or if Ford wants to put the information out there, the dealers can be for it not against it. You know, people go on and on about how the UAW is outdated and the dinosaurs need to be brought out of the dark ages, There are dealers that need to do the same. Yes, there are good dealers and bad dealers out there (as well as good and bad customers). But when people feel the need to post on a forum, ie. "Dealer recommendations for Toronto?" it's not a good thing. It means that there are enough crappy dealers that they're worried about getting one. You should be able to walk into any dealer in the Ford chain and be comfortable that you're not going to be screwed over. in response to #1 .. My dealer that i ordered through was closed by Ford " dont have enough cars to handle so many dealerships in the area" they closed, at least 5 dealers in a 25 mi radius (as the crow flies). (fairfield , stratford, ansonia, west haven, east haven) #2 Dude.. where's my car? last i checked sitting in transit and hasn't moved since july 1st though my dealer promised me delivery in my hands by july 5th.. left the plant on June 22, officially starting 15days of being on a train to transport? VP im with you on your entire statement.. i had to go to several dealers in my area before 1: i was comfortable and thought i could trust (used lightly) the sales staff and dealership itself 2: they accepted my x-plan and lack of communication there after has been horrendous, aggravating, and stressful. i've canceled / postponed 3 different weekend events due to now having this car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Even a factory tour/visit option whenyou pick it up would be cool. A coworker of mine got a trip to Europe to pick up his Volvo at the plant, got to drive it for a few days and then brought it back to the plant where they shipped it off to his Volvo dealership in Canada. You can't even get a plant tour here. +1 It would be sweet to be able to see your new wheels roll off the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford4v429 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 The point is Ford's reputation gets dragged in the dirt because of some bad dealers and there is very little they can do about it. And that's wrong. I agree with that 100%. so many dealers get 'defensive' when someone thinks theres a bad one out there...truth be told, most have/have had/will have a bad salesman that can ruin a reputation quickly...before the old forum got nuked, I saw one case where a guy had waited for months for his car, his dealer said it would never get built, I suggested if he had a VIN to cone over to blueoval and see just where that vin went(as if it has a vin, it IS getting built). long story short, this dudes car got dealer traded at a higher profit, with his name on the window sticker...guess it gave him enough leverage to get a deal/car, but it all was 100% bullshit. Stuff like this should NOT happen, but in my opinion there aint a single dealer out there that hasnt or wont have a shady profiteer salesman pass thru their doors sooner or later- and the ford buyer simply thinks ford screwed them. one thing ford needs to do- customer surveys need to be verified as not dealer 'assisted'. when I bought my F150, they offered me a free oil change if I let them fill out the survey- no, I filled it out along with a letter and sent it to ford...did they call the dealer on it? I doubt it, pretty sure the little computerized survey probably handled by a firm in india or something that could care less...having a online 'friend at the factory' like Kzinti/Viper pilot would allow interactive way to SETTLE complaints with some feedback so folks could know ford DOES care about customers and the dealer francises that carry the ford banner. right now the CRC phone number is pretty darn weak IMO(call your dealer- repeat). I know dealers get beat up badly about pricing- personally I think Saturn had the right idea with fixed pricing...imagine if we had to haggle over everything we purchased...no thank God, but for some reason, 90% of folks want to haggle the hell out of car dealers. I feel bad for dealers in that regard- but only in that regard. 99% of the dealer/lawyer public opinions are self inflicted and well deserved(probably some lawyers pissed I'm comparing them to salesmen and vice-versa... HA) and the best way to eliminate some of the 'rather have a root canal' deaer experience is simply offer communication, and act concerned about concerns...I was(still) one of the biggest'armchair whatever/whiner/crybaby/etc... ford buyers out there, just because I am still a 'ford guy' and it pisses me off how the nada/dealer mafia drags their name thru the mud daily and nothing can be done to make it better. its BS, and the best way ford could start cleaning up THEIR reputation is by simply dealing with the facts- wheres my car? its HERE. simple. if the dealer lies, then by gosh someone from ford might consider calling them and seeing why a crybaby customers whining about a 30,000.00 lie theyve been fed. call it what you want but it needs improvement. that whole Kzinti thing was right on target, and everyone agrees... If ford wants to fix a lot of customer issues, put him in touch with their legal team and let them work out what lines can be drawn in the sand and just do it. the ONLY folks ive heard that didnt like Kzintis idea were: a) some dealers B) some co workers tht thought Kzinti sholdnt be doing it as it wasnt his job. screw the dealers, put Kzinti in customer service(without hands tied any more than legally required to keep the franchise handcuffs intact) and within a year or two a lot of the 'pissed off customers' might be just a memory...best of all if Ford has actual customer interaction, any bad reputation will be deserved unlike today. Fords got the products, theyve got the people- but theres still a small percentage of dealer middlemen mucking up the works, and it needs attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 in response to #1 .. My dealer that i ordered through was closed by Ford " dont have enough cars to handle so many dealerships in the area" they closed, at least 5 dealers in a 25 mi radius (as the crow flies). Ford can't force a dealer to close unless they do something illegal (and even then I'm not so sure). What Ford has been doing is buying out the franchises of marginal dealers, or cutting their allocation to the point they decide to close up shop on their own. If a dealer has a franchise then Ford is legally required to sell them vehicles. That's why it's so costly for Ford to consolidate or reduce dealerships - they have to bribe them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Ford should own a franchise that has every car/truck with each trim level. At the Ford company franchise, I could only order cars/trucks. If I wanted one now, I would have to visit a independently own dealership. I should be able to set an appointment to drive up to three vehicles of my choice every 6 months. If I want/need to drive more, then I would have to put up a non-refundable deposit for a car order. I should be able to order on line or walk in and order what I want, and track the vehicle 24 hrs/day with updates each week after the order. A live video of the car/truck being made would be nice too. After the vehicle was made, I would have a choice of: pick it up at the plant and save the shipping fee, pick it up at the dealership or have it delivered to my home. I also want an on-line manual video with Jill that explains everything about the car and all of its options. Wow. How long did it take you to come up with THAT gem of a business model? Do you have to be at least this tall to do holeshots in a Mustang? Ohhh... Maybe they could build a racetrack at this automotive wonderland as well... And an offroad course!!! Just try not to get your Dippin' Dots on the upholstery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Dean - I don't remember all the details of the failed program and I was not suggesting it was any type of solution to the ordered vehicle problem. I was just pointing out how little power Ford has over dealers and how they are legally prohibited from doing certain things to help the customers because they violate franchise laws. In every other retail industry I can think of, the mfr controls who sells their products and can take the products away if the retailer doesn't meet their standards. How can you possibly justify making it ILLEGAL for Ford to do the same thing? two words....monetary investment....Ford doesnt pay for the buildings or land the dealers are on...next question....funny though, seems in peoples eyes the dealers have NO rights.....wonder how that would equate to individuals....lets burn the constitution adn NO ONE has any rights...leave everything up to big brother.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Ford can't force a dealer to close unless they do something illegal (and even then I'm not so sure). What Ford has been doing is buying out the franchises of marginal dealers, or cutting their allocation to the point they decide to close up shop on their own. If a dealer has a franchise then Ford is legally required to sell them vehicles. That's why it's so costly for Ford to consolidate or reduce dealerships - they have to bribe them. perhaps they were behind on their flooring....but they did have every type and configuration avail for joyrides...ahem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Even a factory tour/visit option whenyou pick it up would be cool. A coworker of mine got a trip to Europe to pick up his Volvo at the plant, got to drive it for a few days and then brought it back to the plant where they shipped it off to his Volvo dealership in Canada. You can't even get a plant tour here. lets see here....hpw many cars does Volvo sell in comparison?.....bring into scope the massive difference in sales and realize the task you have just requested....one can go see their Ferrari or Porsches as well....little difference between MASS produced cars and "limited" production....what you ask could perhaps apply to raptors and Gt500's.....other than that it is a ludicrousley large undertaking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 To start, 1) Ford owns the Ford name. They set the level of customer satisfaction, and franchisees that can't maintain a positive customer satisfaction rating and their franchise is PULLED. Not allocation reduced. PULLED. Reduced allocation still allows a sh!tty dealer to screw around customers. "Well sir, we ordered your Mustang, no news yet but someday you'll get it. In the meantime we'll hold your deposit" or even better yet, when the dealer sells an ordered car out from under another buyer. I've seen it happen. 2) Ford dealers need to step up and get with this century. If I had a dime for every time that I had a customer said "please track my car for me my dealer doesn't know how/can't be bothered to look it up in Vehicle Visibility" I could retire. Or if Ford wants to put the information out there, the dealers can be for it not against it. You know, people go on and on about how the UAW is outdated and the dinosaurs need to be brought out of the dark ages, There are dealers that need to do the same. Yes, there are good dealers and bad dealers out there (as well as good and bad customers). But when people feel the need to post on a forum, ie. "Dealer recommendations for Toronto?" it's not a good thing. It means that there are enough crappy dealers that they're worried about getting one. You should be able to walk into any dealer in the Ford chain and be comfortable that you're not going to be screwed over. quick answer to all issues...guess where the dealers get their information from regarding tracking....the issue lies with corporate NOT the dealers....like I have stated, we are the whipping boys....but WE are victims as well, we can only relay the information we receive....and guess where that comes from...next....this is WAY too easy.... :boring: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 (edited) [quote name='ViperPilot' date='05 July 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1278375082' You should be able to walk into any dealer in the Ford chain and be comfortable that you're not going to be screwed over. classic, one one hand someone wants Ford owned dealers, that would incite fixed pricing, so from the last quote , paying MSRP is acceptable because you arent getting "screwed over".....so, so far the fix is ....get rid of antiquated franchaises, supply joy ride cars at request, have the capacity to give MILLIONS of people Factory tours and have fixed pricing....so who does background checks and supplies financing, structures the deals and demonstrates the cars features at delivery....oh, at the clients place of request of course....something with an Ocean veiw please....and in California mid july with the Salvation Army band supplying theme music and CNN to docement the momentous occasion.... Edited July 6, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Wow. How long did it take you to come up with THAT gem of a business model? Do you have to be at least this tall to do holeshots in a Mustang? Ohhh... Maybe they could build a racetrack at this automotive wonderland as well... And an offroad course!!! Just try not to get your Dippin' Dots on the upholstery! +1...mettech, no offense, but I read that post and all I see is ME ME ME ME......exceptionally self centered....do you want a foot rub at delivery as well?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 lets see here....hpw many cars does Volvo sell in comparison Excuses excuses excuses. Ford (remember? They owned Volvo) flew my friend/coworker to SWEDEN FFS, put him up and let him take his $45,000 vehicle out for an Autobahn joyride. People here spend $55G on a Shelby and can't get a fucking straight answer where their car is, let alone see where their car is built. Many (not all) Mustang buyers would pay their own way to Dearborn to pick up their car and joyride it home if it saved them $850 in delivery cost. With all the boohooing of what you CAN'T do, is there anything that you CAN? Doesn't seem like it from any of your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 quick answer to all issues...guess where the dealers get their information from regarding tracking....the issue lies with corporate NOT the dealers....like I have stated, we are the whipping boys....but WE are victims as well, we can only relay the information we receive....and guess where that comes from...next....this is WAY too easy.... :boring: That's funny, I have the same access to info as the dealers do. Why can I tell customers where their cars are and they can't. And I'm not even getting a sale commision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Excuses excuses excuses. Ford (remember? They owned Volvo) flew my friend/coworker to SWEDEN FFS, put him up and let him take his $45,000 vehicle out for an Autobahn joyride. People here spend $55G on a Shelby and can't get a fucking straight answer where their car is, let alone see where their car is built. Many (not all) Mustang buyers would pay their own way to Dearborn to pick up their car and joyride it home if it saved them $850 in delivery cost. With all the boohooing of what you CAN'T do, is there anything that you CAN? Doesn't seem like it from any of your posts. not an excuse Viper....its economics....on a small scale it can work, and like I said, Ford would do good if they could institute something similar to their GT500and Raptor, and maybe the upcoming SVT vehicles....could they do it for perhaps 50,000 regular F-150 owners looking for a kick...so, take a chill pill and realize the can of worms and the costs incurred for such a request......I dont know for sure, but I would guess more F-150s are sold per year than the ENTIRE Volvo lineup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 That's funny, I have the same access to info as the dealers do. Why can I tell customers where their cars are and they can't. And I'm not even getting a sale commision. are you talking Vehicle Visibilty?.....if so I know for a fact its flawed.....remember, its only as accurate as the person inputting the info....remember, evrything revolve around human input and error.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 [quote name='ViperPilot' date='06 July 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1278436143' With all the boohooing of what you CAN'T do, is there anything that you CAN? Doesn't seem like it from any of your posts. ] its why I asked for suggestions from the Armchair lads...so far, not a single positive, applicable or ATTAINABLE aswer has been brought to the table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 are you talking Vehicle Visibilty?.....if so I know for a fact its flawed.....remember, its only as accurate as the person inputting the info....remember, evrything revolve around human input and error.... Actually I think it is RF Tags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Actually I think it is RF Tags. and I will openly admit that is something I am unfamiliar with....RF stands for exactly what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Gee Dean - all I hear from you is whining and no solutions to the problem. How about this: Ford dealers can choose to opt in to a factory program whereby a customer can order the vehicle they want directly from the Ford build and price website after being pre-approved by Ford Credit online. Then they choose a local participating dealer to take delivery. The price is set (X plan e.g.) and agreed to by the dealers when they agree to participate. The order goes in at highest priority (lowest numerically) and does not affect dealer allocations. Buyer is charged a deposit that is non-refundable at a certain point in the build process but that credit can be applied towards another vehicle. Allow the buyer to track the vehicle's detailed progress and status via the website. The dealer gets a X plan sale with NO upfront work at all and no risk - if the buyer walks away then it's Ford's issue, not the dealer's. The buyer is happy that he can get the vehicle he wants at a fair price without having to deal with dealership sales people. This is a win-win for dealers and Ford but there is NO way dealers would allow this to happen. They'd sue under the franchise laws and win of course. Now let's hear Dean cry about why this is a bad idea.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 and I will openly admit that is something I am unfamiliar with....RF stands for exactly what? Radio Frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 not an excuse Viper....its economics....on a small scale it can work, and like I said, Ford would do good if they could institute something similar to their GT500and Raptor, and maybe the upcoming SVT vehicles....could they do it for perhaps 50,000 regular F-150 owners looking for a kick...so, take a chill pill and realize the can of worms and the costs incurred for such a request......I dont know for sure, but I would guess more F-150s are sold per year than the ENTIRE Volvo lineup... The point is, it wouldn't cost Ford anything. All it would take is a PDI center at AAI or wherever your car is made. After finishing off the paperwork at their dealership, the customer can fly (on their own dime, usually costs less than $150 one way from anywhere in the US) to Detroit, Ford could shuttle you to the PDI center, take delivery, you get temp tags and off you go. Charge the PDI cost, they have to pay it anyways. Customer gets to save about $400, dealer still makes the sale, and the customer gets a memorable "adventure" to associate with the car. And THAT's what made my friend's Volvo purchase stick out on his mind, and why he would have bought another before Ford sold Volvo to Geely. Was the thrill of being one of the first to drive his car down the Autobahn. Instead of waiting for a phonecall that might come someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 are you talking Vehicle Visibilty?.....if so I know for a fact its flawed.....remember, its only as accurate as the person inputting the info....remember, evrything revolve around human input and error.... Yes, it is flawed in some ways. But there are dealers out there that don't know how to use it. Why do you think the tracking section still so busy after it's been closed for a year? And while some train tracking is done via RF, individual cars are tracked by scanning the barcodes on the windows that get removed at prep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 (edited) Radio Frequency. Here's a case study of how Ford uses Zebra Technologies/WhereNet's radio frequency & barcode identification systems. Edited July 6, 2010 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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