I am a Camaro Owner

[Deanh]

It complicates the process because Ford is prohibitied from doing certain things that it might want to do to provide better customer service. That was the goal of the Blue Oval Certified process but what happened there? Dealers sued and won - game over.

 

I agree with the impatience aspect, but then again if Ford had not built a retail ordered car prior to the end of the quality holds then it would not have sat around for over a month.

 

Some delay should be expected but I think this particular case was a little extraordinary and the lack of any status (which could also be the dealer's fault) just made it that much worse.

let me put it in a nutshell...think Ford wants to directly deal with customers?.....will never happen, they NEED the dealers to cushion any issues.....imagine this gentleman talking directly with someone that has ZERO accountability?....aside from that they would have to enable an ENTIRELY new department with how many people just to cater to complaints/ inquiries?...i would say as many individuals as the dealers some are so hellbent on irradicating.....and they would STLL need them for service / parts/ demonstartion and delivery purposes...so, really, whats the point? nix the dealers and up the agravation 20 fold?....never happen...let the dealers deal with the incidentals and let them get bitch slapped for any issues...its less stressful...take away the dealers you take away their ability to defer...

Edited June 28, 2010 by Deanh

[Deanh]

It complicates the process because Ford is prohibitied from doing certain things that it might want to do to provide better customer service. That was the goal of the Blue Oval Certified process but what happened there? Dealers sued and won - game over.

 

I agree with the impatience aspect, but then again if Ford had not built a retail ordered car prior to the end of the quality holds then it would not have sat around for over a month.

 

Some delay should be expected but I think this particular case was a little extraordinary and the lack of any status (which could also be the dealer's fault) just made it that much worse.

blame the reps...they are also kept in the dark....we can only relay what has been relayed to me....

[OAC_Sparky]

nothing really complicated about it, its the way its always been and always will be...remove the dealers and the public will get rightfully screwed..WE are the fall guys, WE get the blame and WE get burdened with rectifying any issues...imagine customer relations if that padding is releived of duty and you are dealing with "The Big Guy"...wont and never will work. Fact is in this case Ford has an exceptionally desirable car and their REP is on the line...answer...dont release said vehicles if an issue is discovered...a few opissed off "gotta have it right away" impatient bloggers do a LOT less damage to a manufacturers rep than an instant recall, fix or media embellished witch hunt.....so, my advice, if its just come out be patient, simple as that...oh, and my Fiesta was origionally "meant" to be here over a month ago....am i pi$$ing and moaning on a website ...nope.

Looks like you're having a waaaaaahfest of your own now. Poor me, everone hates me.

 

Impatient buyers are part of the job. If you don't understand it you shouldn't be in the business. Was this buyer impatient? Sure!

 

But you and I both know that in "the business" if you told the customer up front that when they preorder their car that they run the risk of waiting long after the car goes into production for it, most of the impatient ones would walk. And this would be a non-issue. Assuming that you're not the OP's dealer, do you know if the dealer gave him the head's up? We don't know, but I highly doubt it. At best they kept their mouth shut and head down and let the customer logically assume that if you order it early you get it early.

 

Every salesman should have the ...

- Anyone who pre-orders a new vehicle before it's even started production should be prepared for a long wait.

-Waiting to order after the factory is in full production mode shipping directly from the assembly line without quality inspections is much safer

... on a plaque on the wall behind them.

 

Dean, I respect you in your profession and on this board. I'm not trying to invoke a dealer witch hunt. I just want to point out that what "we" see every day is not what the buyer sees every day. The buyer is going to assume what seems logical. "First ordered, first delivered" seems logical. A car being built on May 15 and sitting at the ramp not being shipped until June 26th with no word as to why does not.

 

Yes, I do understand what delays the advanced order process can hold (ordered an '08 Ranger FX4 with a manual trans in '07). In Fordspeak "late availability" means "whenever we damned well get around to it". But that was OK; I'm more "in the know" than my dealer is because I have access to the system. I could access VV waiting until the "material hold" came off the order. I know it's beyond my dealer's control.

 

I know what the order process involves; every new car I've had has been special ordered except one. Which is why it won't be until January that I order my Mustang (a 2012) because I AM in no hurry.

[Deanh]

Looks like you're having a waaaaaahfest of your own now. Poor me, everone hates me.

 

Impatient buyers are part of the job. If you don't understand it you shouldn't be in the business. Was this buyer impatient? Sure!

 

But you and I both know that in "the business" if you told the customer up front that when they preorder their car that they run the risk of waiting long after the car goes into production for it, most of the impatient ones would walk. And this would be a non-issue. Assuming that you're not the OP's dealer, do you know if the dealer gave him the head's up? We don't know, but I highly doubt it. At best they kept their mouth shut and head down and let the customer logically assume that if you order it early you get it early.

 

Every salesman should have the ...

... on a plaque on the wall behind them.

 

Dean, I respect you in your profession and on this board. I'm not trying to invoke a dealer witch hunt. I just want to point out that what "we" see every day is not what the buyer sees every day. The buyer is going to assume what seems logical. "First ordered, first delivered" seems logical. A car being built on May 15 and sitting at the ramp not being shipped until June 26th with no word as to why does not.

 

Yes, I do understand what delays the advanced order process can hold (ordered an '08 Ranger FX4 with a manual trans in '07). In Fordspeak "late availability" means "whenever we damned well get around to it". But that was OK; I'm more "in the know" than my dealer is because I have access to the system. I could access VV waiting until the "material hold" came off the order. I know it's beyond my dealer's control.

 

I know what the order process involves; every new car I've had has been special ordered except one. Which is why it won't be until January that I order my Mustang (a 2012) because I AM in no hurry.

actually kirb, no offense but you are absolutely wrong, no wahhfest here just 26 years of dealing with reality and no sugar coating, I dont give a rats if people like or hate the way I do business...theres a straight line between two points.... . We are the whipping boys, plain and simple, has been that since day one...and will remain that way....how happy would you be on the phone pushing 1 for English, two for Spanish 3 for....yadda yadda, rather than whisking down to the dealer and confronting the issue. We have no control over factory issues, we too are "kept in the dark, and are only as accurate as what is relayed to us...process is imperfect as hell, and I dont see any fixes on the horizon. As for ordering, I always get asked etas...I remind everyone the E in ETA stands for ESTIMATED....nothing hard about that, theres is ALWAYS delays, especially on new and improved product....so deal, I do, and I have, every time. The first ordered, first delivered is a total anomoly...think about it...they are CUSTOM orders and deviate from what ford speculates will be the norm....if you wish to have a car spec'd as FORD feels will be the correct mix, then you MAY be in luck...aside from that customer may deal with a certain option being delayed availability...the first cars built dont deal with those parameters do they? What seems so simple on the surface most definitely isnt...and I understand from a customers standpoint the frustration...BUT, I will add, it sure seems as if some think it is just a case of "just add water"......it most definitely is not, there can be shipping issues, commodity issues, quality issues, paint shortages, material holds etc etc....bit of a crap shoot really, and something I relay to every customer.......although the 11 vans I just had arrive that were ordered in SEPTEMBER last year ( thankyou Magneti Marelli Workstation issues ) may border on the "unacceptable"......especially since someone took it upon themselves to slap a CD player in there instead of the ordered Workstations and ( now you may get my gist ) leave the onus ON THE DEALER TO HANDLE THE ISSUE....ahem...

Edited June 28, 2010 by Deanh

[OAC_Sparky]

actually kirb, no offense but you are absolutely wrong, no wahhfest here just 26 years of dealing with reality and no sugar coating, I dont give a rats if people like or hate the way I do business...theres a straight line between two points.... .

 

<-snip->

(It was me, not Kirby you quoted)

 

Dean, you're preaching to the choir. I understand where you're coming from. What I'm saying is that not all dealers are upfront with their clients. The OP had two "personal" deadlines for receiving their car. Perhaps if the dealer was as forthcoming as you claim to be that those deadlines not being met then this could have been avoided.

 

At any rate, personally I would like to see two dates for order bank opening; first being dealer orders, then the day after Job 1 the customer order bank opens. That way no custom order has an open-ended ETA, they should (conceivably) have their crap together by then.

[Deanh]

(It was me, not Kirby you quoted)

 

Dean, you're preaching to the choir. I understand where you're coming from. What I'm saying is that not all dealers are upfront with their clients. The OP had two "personal" deadlines for receiving their car. Perhaps if the dealer was as forthcoming as you claim to be that those deadlines not being met then this could have been avoided.

 

At any rate, personally I would like to see two dates for order bank opening; first being dealer orders, then the day after Job 1 the customer order bank opens. That way no custom order has an open-ended ETA, they should (conceivably) have their crap together by then.

beleive me, I understand frustration from the customers standpoint, I just think there is or they may be lead to a false sense of reality. Lets face it 8 weeks used to be the norm, and IS usually. But there are so many variables that for someone to take or be relayed that info is mis-information....ESPECIALLY given a just released model where lines are yet to be up to speed. The reality when asked an eta is simple...usually we are told 6 -8 weeks, but that is an ESTIMATE...it could be earlier ( exceptionally rare ) or later ( the norm on new models ) and there are also variables that customers most definitely do NOT understand like allocation ( dont get me started there ) .....and whats your take on the 11 vans i ordered?...think I could get a straight answer?....I LITERALLY embarrased the shite out of my zone rep for his total inability to give me a straight answer.....so, I remain as upfront as i possibly can be.....sometimes the reality is NOT what people want to hear...me , i do not like tap-dancing around, if I do not know, or cant give a straight answer I'll say so....in this case the guy bought a camaro...to which i offer my condolences....lol...nothing like trying to prove a point by making a mistake and posting it saying NAH NAH NAH NA NAHH!

[PREMiERdrum]

To the OP:

You'll want this link

LINK - Camaro5 Problems and Issues Forum

 

A good forum where new 'Maro owners are keeping track of all the ways that the car fails.

 

Some highlights:

-Paint is extremely thin and will develop a large amount of chips from normal driving. GM says that its due to an "angular design." A little arguing and your dealer will spot fix under warranty. Universal problem with chips in paint, debris under paint, and spots of peeling / bubbling paint.

-Clips for C-pillar trim detach easily, so it's not uncommon for the whole cover to fall off.

-Radio display is subject to condensation buildup inside the screen, GM says is functioning "normally" and is condition of the weather.

-Clutch issues, some owners have gone thru 2 or 3 clutches under warranty.

-AC compressors failing, being replaced under warranty.

[Deanh]

To the OP:

You'll want this link

LINK - Camaro5 Problems and Issues Forum

 

A good forum where new 'Maro owners are keeping track of all the ways that the car fails.

 

Some highlights:

-Paint is extremely thin and will develop a large amount of chips from normal driving. GM says that its due to an "angular design." A little arguing and your dealer will spot fix under warranty. Universal problem with chips in paint, debris under paint, and spots of peeling / bubbling paint.

-Clips for C-pillar trim detach easily, so it's not uncommon for the whole cover to fall off.

-Radio display is subject to condensation buildup inside the screen, GM says is functioning "normally" and is condition of the weather.

-Clutch issues, some owners have gone thru 2 or 3 clutches under warranty.

-AC compressors failing, being replaced under warranty.

classic, i actually feel for this guy, i truley beleive he has done himself a ROYAL injustice through frustration...good things come to those with patience.....my car was ordered Febuary....

[MY93SHO]

classic, i actually feel for this guy, i truley beleive he has done himself a ROYAL injustice through frustration...good things come to those with patience.....my car was ordered Febuary....

 

It's the "McDonald Drive Through" mentality.

 

" I want it now! I want it now!"

 

Some of these people should be forced to follow the process from start to finish through every frustrating step and find out how the world really works.

 

It's called perspective and unfortunately most people have none. "Food comes from grocery stores! It just magically arrives there!"

 

"Metal and rubber and plastic go in one end of the building and cars come out the other end! It's magic!"

[PTRocks]

Most of people's crappy experiences could be alleviated with better communication from Ford. If it would be feasible, in addition to an ETA, if the VV would list the vehicle's position in the queue (for say QC checks, VPC work, QC repairs) then the customer could at least get a sense of by how much the ETA would get missed.

 

Also, I don't think the OP's original intent was 100% to be saying "NAH, NAH". He is actually doing Ford a favor by giving them a head's up as to why they lost the sale.

[grab302]

It's the "McDonald Drive Through" mentality.

 

" I want it now! I want it now!"

 

Some of these people should be forced to follow the process from start to finish through every frustrating step and find out how the world really works.

 

It's called perspective and unfortunately most people have none. "Food comes from grocery stores! It just magically arrives there!"

 

"Metal and rubber and plastic go in one end of the building and cars come out the other end! It's magic!"

 

I actually wanted it the day I ordered it on 2/2/10 but was willing to wait for its original eta of 4/28. Then, when it got bumped to 5/3/10,followed by 5/6/10, I still waited. When my dealer got 8 stock orders delivered(most built after my car), I still waited. And, actually I'm still waiting but my car did get shipped as of Sunday. So, I guess with your logic I should just be happy Ford DECIDED to sell me a car.

[grab302]

classic, i actually feel for this guy, i truley beleive he has done himself a ROYAL injustice through frustration...good things come to those with patience.....my car was ordered Febuary....

 

The OP liked both cars but wanted a Mustang more, that's why he ordered the day the banks opened on Jan18. I'd say he had a remarkable amount of patience but it ran out.

[fordmantpw]

My dad went through a similar problem when the new Super Duty came out in '98. He ordered it very early, and waited 6 months or so. He got tired of waiting for "his" truck so he bought one off the lot...just a different Ford lot since the salesman at the dealership he was dealing with was part of the problem (wouldn't even return phone calls).

 

Bottom line...buying your second choice car to spite Ford really hurts you more than it does Ford. Even though Ford hates to lose a sale, it is one out of thousands, whereas your one car is a lot higher percentage of your car purchases than it is of Ford's sales. Finding a similar one off a lot seems like a better solution IMO.

[PTRocks]

My dad went through a similar problem when the new Super Duty came out in '98. He ordered it very early, and waited 6 months or so. He got tired of waiting for "his" truck so he bought one off the lot...just a different Ford lot since the salesman at the dealership he was dealing with was part of the problem (wouldn't even return phone calls).

 

Bottom line...buying your second choice car to spite Ford really hurts you more than it does Ford. Even though Ford hates to lose a sale, it is one out of thousands, whereas your one car is a lot higher percentage of your car purchases than it is of Ford's sales. Finding a similar one off a lot seems like a better solution IMO.

 

It's not just one car. It's possibly other future cars from that purchaser, plus all the lost sales from bad PR amongst friends and family. The strongest endorsement a company can get is by word of mouth, but that works both ways too.

[aneekr]

Ford has some excellent web-based tools for Fleet customers to obtain order status, distribution bulletins, ordering and production updates, dealer courtesy deliveries, etc. A valid FIN is all that's needed to use these. I wonder if Ford can transfer some of the good practices from Fleet to the Customer Care departments that handle requests from non FIN customers?

[fordmantpw]

It's not just one car. It's possibly other future cars from that purchaser, plus all the lost sales from bad PR amongst friends and family. The strongest endorsement a company can get is by word of mouth, but that works both ways too.

 

Very true. A little information goes a long way to keeping the customer happy.

[Deanh]

It's not just one car. It's possibly other future cars from that purchaser, plus all the lost sales from bad PR amongst friends and family. The strongest endorsement a company can get is by word of mouth, but that works both ways too.

absolute poppycock....the lost sales to to friends and family is a total cop out excuse....after all how can one give an opinion of a car they havent driven or owned...the only valid opinion they can give is of the car they drive. And I wouldnt take any credence friom someone whos gripe is they had to wait for what they consider too long and because of that dont buy a Ford....sheesh.

[Deanh]

Very true. A little information goes a long way to keeping the customer happy.

now that i can totally agree with....but the knee jerk reaction this gent took is asinine...the first time the camaro has issues or gives him an issue he will question his response...but he will NEVER admit the fact of " I should have waited longer ....".

Edited June 29, 2010 by Deanh

[fordmantpw]

now that i can totally agree with....but the knee jerk reaction this gent took is asinine...the first time the camaro has issues or gives him an issue he will question his response...but he will NEVER admit the fact of " I should have waited longer ....".

 

He will blab about how crappy his experience with Ford was, while secretly having a horrible feeling inside knowing he is driving his second-choice and is not happy with it. I am a very impatient person, but I have patience when it comes to waiting on the right vehicle for me. When I'm spending that kind of cash, I want it to be right and I want it to be exactly what I want. Which is why I order most of my vehicles (3 out of the 4 I/we have bought).

[ViperPilot]

500 miles

[PTRocks]

Very true. A little information goes a long way to keeping the customer happy.

 

 

He will blab about how crappy his experience with Ford was,

 

This hits it right on the head. Whether or not you agree with the level of patience of the OP, the fact remains that if Ford had relayed an appropriate amount of info to him, he'd wait it out and this thread wouldn't exist. If you read his post again you will see that he while he was having issues with the wait the fact that he DID NOT FEEL FORD VALUED him as a customer. Personally I've walked away from companies for good for that reason. They've lost 000's of dollars of my business as a result.

[Deanh]

He will blab about how crappy his experience with Ford was, while secretly having a horrible feeling inside knowing he is driving his second-choice and is not happy with it. I am a very impatient person, but I have patience when it comes to waiting on the right vehicle for me. When I'm spending that kind of cash, I want it to be right and I want it to be exactly what I want. Which is why I order most of my vehicles (3 out of the 4 I/we have bought).

+1...if i'm spending that type of moola I would tolerate just about anything rather than compromise....course I could over react like a spoiled child then bleat on a website for those willing to listen....hey, the system sucks, get over it....

[Deanh]

Most of people's crappy experiences could be alleviated with better communication from Ford. If it would be feasible, in addition to an ETA, if the VV would list the vehicle's position in the queue (for say QC checks, VPC work, QC repairs) then the customer could at least get a sense of by how much the ETA would get missed.

 

Also, I don't think the OP's original intent was 100% to be saying "NAH, NAH". He is actually doing Ford a favor by giving them a head's up as to why they lost the sale.

heres a sidebar, Ford did NOT lose the sale, the Dealership did, the DEALERSHIP already bought the car from Ford, now all they need is a new customer for the same unit, and with the 5.0 thats not an issue.

[Deanh]

I actually wanted it the day I ordered it on 2/2/10 but was willing to wait for its original eta of 4/28. Then, when it got bumped to 5/3/10,followed by 5/6/10, I still waited. When my dealer got 8 stock orders delivered(most built after my car), I still waited. And, actually I'm still waiting but my car did get shipped as of Sunday. So, I guess with your logic I should just be happy Ford DECIDED to sell me a car.

so, theres nothing "different" about your custome order then......all i can say, if you want a vehicle to YOUR specs, be patient.......

[PTRocks]

+1...if i'm spending that type of moola I would tolerate just about anything rather than compromise....course I could over react like a spoiled child then bleat on a website for those willing to listen....hey, the system sucks, get over it....

 

Spoken like a grizzled veteran of front line customer service. Maybe it's time for a fresh approach.