pony racer Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) if anyone can send me a full detail of shipping.. i would appreciate it.. PM it to me. i dont want anyone getting in any type of trouble or sticking their neck out.. your PM will be kept between you and me Edited July 2, 2010 by pony racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTRocks Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 Sorry, but customer service is KING. It should not fall on the dealer to provide all the customer service. Ford needs to get involved as well. Saying "this is how it has always been and it ain't changing" doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies as a customer. Ford can either lead in this arena or wait until someone else does. Oops, sorry,too late... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford4v429 Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 Oops, sorry,too late... Thanks for the link PT... that REALLY PISSES ME OFF. Kzinti/Ford had the right idea and now the bowtie crowd has it, and '11 mustang buyers are still in the dark. Everyone associated with Kzinti's help told ford to lead or follow, he had the right idea- now government motors has what ford enthusiasts had unofficially 5 years ago before Ford said no. whoever clipped Kzinti's wings at ford deserves a good smack upside the head for allowing GM to take the lead on this. sorry but this is pathetic IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Oops, sorry,too late... Thanks for the link, but that is not a GM site. Camarotracking.com was established by a group of car enthusiasts who decided to get together and help other car enthusiasts track their car through the order and delivery process. Along the way we have realized that this would also be beneficial to not only the customer, but also to GM and the Dealerships that support them. We have developed this site to be a one stop way for you to track your car from order to delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford4v429 Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Thanks for the link, but that is not a GM site. Camarotracking.com was established by a group of car enthusiasts who decided to get together and help other car enthusiasts track their car through the order and delivery process. Along the way we have realized that this would also be beneficial to not only the customer, but also to GM and the Dealerships that support them. We have developed this site to be a one stop way for you to track your car from order to delivery. dont tell me Kzinti is wearing a bowtie now or maybe GM will shut them down the way Ford did...still a darn shame IMO that Ford didnt run with the 'friend at the factory' idea- it was cool and far superior to the lousy way the system currently works. from what Ive read from Ford enthusiasts all over the web, it still sucks as bad today as it did in 05. until Ford acknowledges the buyer is the customer (not just the dealers problem) its unlikely to change. if any of the asian manufacturers ever build a car enthusiasts actually want bad enough to order/wait in line for, I'm sure they'll do it- but its unlikely theyll ever build a good looking/desirable enthusiast type car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 (edited) until Ford acknowledges the buyer is the customer (not just the dealers problem) its unlikely to change. Franchise laws have existed for a long time and it's hard to enact change. Unfortunately, it's not that Ford doesn't want more control over the customer experience, it's that Ford can't. Look at A/X plan. Ford program, dealer can choose whether to allow it or not. Why? Because the "profit" on an A/X plan is fixed. You're dictating what profit a dealer can make. This is America -- you can't tell someone what profit can make. Ford tried to improve things with the "Blue Oval Certified" program, dealers sued. Not saying it can't be done, but it's definitely an uphill climb. Edited July 4, 2010 by ViperPilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Franchise laws have existed for a long time and it's hard to enact change. Unfortunately, it's not that Ford doesn't want more control over the customer experience, it's that Ford can't. Look at A/X plan. Ford program, dealer can choose whether to allow it or not. Why? Because the "profit" on an A/X plan is fixed. You're dictating what profit a dealer can make. This is America -- you can't tell someone what profit can make. Ford tried to improve things with the "Blue Oval Certified" program, dealers sued. Not saying it can't be done, but it's definitely an uphill climb. People just don't understand the power and impact of the franchise laws and how much it restricts what Ford can do with customers. I asked the then-vp of marketing for Lincoln why they didn't just require the dealers to stock at least 1 Lincoln LS manual for test drives and his reply was that he didn't want to go to jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) People just don't understand the power and impact of the franchise laws and how much it restricts what Ford can do with customers. I asked the then-vp of marketing for Lincoln why they didn't just require the dealers to stock at least 1 Lincoln LS manual for test drives and his reply was that he didn't want to go to jail. why should a dealer do that?...I'd be all for it if Ford supplied the vehicle ...otherwise its a white elephant that would just gather miles and have to be sold at a huge loss to move, all the time garnering flooring costs.....please....hey dealer, you HAVE to do this, by the way youll lose a bundle to do it, but we need you to take it on the chin for the 1 in a hundered buyer.....but hey, how bout we charge $100 per test drive to re-coup some of the costs....hmmm, wonder how THAt would go down..... Edited July 5, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 why should a dealer do that?...I'd be all for it if Ford supplied the vehicle ...otherwise its a white elephant that would just gather miles and have to be sold at a huge loss to move, all the time garnering flooring costs.....please....hey dealer, you HAVE to do this, by the way youll lose a bundle to do it, but we need you to take it on the chin for the 1 in a hundered buyer.....but hey, how bout we charge $100 per test drive to re-coup some of the costs....hmmm, wonder how THAt would go down..... Maybe Ford and others should copy what Verizion Wireless does... have a few corporate stories in each State with privately owned Verision stories. Ford would stock all of their products for test drives at the corporate stories and would only sale X/A fleet programs. Profits from those sales would be shared with all local Ford dealerships. To ensure constant quality and customer fairness, Ford should own all of its dealerships. Privately owned dealerships is so 19th Century.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Maybe Ford and others should copy what Verizion Wireless does... have a few corporate stories in each State with privately owned Verision stories. Ford would stock all of their products for test drives at the corporate stories and would only sale X/A fleet programs. Profits from those sales would be shared with all local Ford dealerships. To ensure constant quality and customer fairness, Ford should own all of its dealerships. Privately owned dealerships is so 19th Century.. Ford would be taken to court so fast it would make your head spin (and they'd lose). The dealers do not want Ford selling vehicles in any shape, form or fashion and unfortunately they have the law to back them up. Ford tried something similar with used cars. You find the car you want on a Ford website, it's delivered to your local dealer for a test drive and to complete the sale. Dealers sued, Ford lost, end of story. Until the franchise laws are changed there's not much Ford can do with dealerships (except help them close). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Ford would be taken to court so fast it would make your head spin (and they'd lose). The dealers do not want Ford selling vehicles in any shape, form or fashion and unfortunately they have the law to back them up. Ford tried something similar with used cars. You find the car you want on a Ford website, it's delivered to your local dealer for a test drive and to complete the sale. Dealers sued, Ford lost, end of story. Until the franchise laws are changed there's not much Ford can do with dealerships (except help them close). YAHOO....just advertise free joyrides for anyone with nothing to do except waste others time and hydrate their own thrill tanks, no commitments necessary, we pay for the gas, foot the insuance liability, pay for someone to train those uncertain of ,manual trans/ clutch interfaces, supply company on the test drives, maintain said vehicles...thats great guys...think 18 year olds want to drive Fusion hybrids, or are their eyes on that 412 hp Mustang...all i want to know...is WHAT THE HELL WAS IN THE WATER YOU DRANK THIS MORNING.....hell, you could put theme parks and the like out of business.....oh, they charge admission.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Maybe Ford and others should copy what Verizion Wireless does... have a few corporate stories in each State with privately owned Verision stories. Ford would stock all of their products for test drives at the corporate stories and would only sale X/A fleet programs. Profits from those sales would be shared with all local Ford dealerships. To ensure constant quality and customer fairness, Ford should own all of its dealerships. Privately owned dealerships is so 19th Century.. hmmm, lets compare overheads and and liabilities along with financial outlay between a $40,000 Mustang that every tom Dick and non buyers wants an e-ticket ride in....and a $99 cell phone that has unlimited text and can be connected to the web......OMG...like Dave Matthews sings...DONT DRINK THE WATER..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) ( Mettech ) Privately owned dealerships is so 19th Century.. and the I want everything for nothing, make no effort, its all about ME and have everything just a click away...is SO today.... . Edited July 5, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 YAHOO....just advertise free joyrides for anyone with nothing to do except waste others time and hydrate their own thrill tanks, no commitments necessary, we pay for the gas, foot the insuance liability, pay for someone to train those uncertain of ,manual trans/ clutch interfaces, supply company on the test drives, maintain said vehicles...thats great guys...think 18 year olds want to drive Fusion hybrids, or are their eyes on that 412 hp Mustang...all i want to know...is WHAT THE HELL WAS IN THE WATER YOU DRANK THIS MORNING.....hell, you could put theme parks and the like out of business.....oh, they charge admission.... You're quite the drama queen today. What the hell was in whatever you were drinking this morning? I'm pretty sure Ford footed the bill for everything and all the dealer had to do was complete the paperwork and take the profit. The point is Ford's reputation gets dragged in the dirt because of some bad dealers and there is very little they can do about it. And that's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 You're quite the drama queen today. What the hell was in whatever you were drinking this morning? I'm pretty sure Ford footed the bill for everything and all the dealer had to do was complete the paperwork and take the profit. The point is Ford's reputation gets dragged in the dirt because of some bad dealers and there is very little they can do about it. And that's wrong. so the answer is free joyrides...no drama queen, just a retort to one of the most cluess asinine suggestions i have yet to read on BON....bash the dealers all you wish, but without them prices would be fixed...something since origional monroneys were instituted, has not and will not be accepted....the public set the ground rules ( rightfully so ) and now they deem them unacceptable?....look, i understand the weakness's of "the system' and feedback on ordered cars even to ME is unacceptable....but to suggest a potential answer is a local joyride moneypit is EXTREMELY mis-guided and removed from reality as to warrant a retort...and NOT a subtle one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 so the answer is free joyrides...no drama queen, just a retort to one of the most cluess asinine suggestions i have yet to read on BON....bash the dealers all you wish, but without them prices would be fixed...something since origional monroneys were instituted, has not and will not be accepted....the public set the ground rules ( rightfully so ) and now they deem them unacceptable?....look, i understand the weakness's of "the system' and feedback on ordered cars even to ME is unacceptable....but to suggest a potential answer is a local joyride moneypit is EXTREMELY mis-guided and removed from reality as to warrant a retort...and NOT a subtle one.... I question that... Why wouldn't Ford corp dealerhsip react the same way from a quote price from Chevy corp as a privately owned dealership? Corp or privately owned.. they both have to beat the Chevy deal to sale a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I question that... Why wouldn't Ford corp dealerhsip react the same way from a quote price from Chevy corp as a privately owned dealership? Corp or privately owned.. they both have to beat the Chevy deal to sale a car. Not familiar with the process Mettech but how is that different from calling several dealers for a quote exactly how?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) Corp or privately owned.. they both have to beat the Chevy deal to sale a car. so no Chevy Camaro orderers had any issues at all following their orders or coping with delays....? and exactly how does that improve the communication between manufacturer and the person thats trying to find out about their order.... Edited July 5, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 so no Chevy Camaro orderers had any issues at all following their orders or coping with delays....? I don't think that GM should be the company we want to emulate. But I do see similarities. Companies handcuffed by outdated franchise laws would be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) I don't think that GM should be the company we want to emulate. But I do see similarities. Companies handcuffed by outdated franchise laws would be one. ok, game on...question, warts and all, because they are not perfect...exactly WHAT do you guys consider outdated, and what/ how would you suggest to rectify the issues....and remember the question IS what is antiquated about current franchaise laws...apologies to the OP, this thread has officially become derailed, but it may become interesting as a result....go at it fellas....1st suggestion was free test drives for everyone with a limitless choice of vehicles to drive, regardless if ones intent is to actually even purchase a vehicle, or just have some fun killing free time on Ford dime....next epiphany please..... Edited July 5, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 ok, game on...question, warts and all, because they are not perfect...exactly WHAT do you guys consider outdated, and what/ how would you suggest to rectify the issues.... To start, 1) Ford owns the Ford name. They set the level of customer satisfaction, and franchisees that can't maintain a positive customer satisfaction rating and their franchise is PULLED. Not allocation reduced. PULLED. Reduced allocation still allows a sh!tty dealer to screw around customers. "Well sir, we ordered your Mustang, no news yet but someday you'll get it. In the meantime we'll hold your deposit" or even better yet, when the dealer sells an ordered car out from under another buyer. I've seen it happen. 2) Ford dealers need to step up and get with this century. If I had a dime for every time that I had a customer said "please track my car for me my dealer doesn't know how/can't be bothered to look it up in Vehicle Visibility" I could retire. Or if Ford wants to put the information out there, the dealers can be for it not against it. You know, people go on and on about how the UAW is outdated and the dinosaurs need to be brought out of the dark ages, There are dealers that need to do the same. Yes, there are good dealers and bad dealers out there (as well as good and bad customers). But when people feel the need to post on a forum, ie. "Dealer recommendations for Toronto?" it's not a good thing. It means that there are enough crappy dealers that they're worried about getting one. You should be able to walk into any dealer in the Ford chain and be comfortable that you're not going to be screwed over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 ok, game on...question, warts and all, because they are not perfect...exactly WHAT do you guys consider outdated, and what/ how would you suggest to rectify the issues....and remember the question IS what is antiquated about current franchaise laws...apologies to the OP, this thread has officially become derailed, but it may become interesting as a result....go at it fellas....1st suggestion was free test drives for everyone with a limitless choice of vehicles to drive, regardless if ones intent is to actually even purchase a vehicle, or just have some fun killing free time on Ford dime....next epiphany please..... I bet the replies to this will be interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 so the answer is free joyrides...no drama queen, just a retort to one of the most cluess asinine suggestions i have yet to read on BON....bash the dealers all you wish, but without them prices would be fixed.. Dean - I don't remember all the details of the failed program and I was not suggesting it was any type of solution to the ordered vehicle problem. I was just pointing out how little power Ford has over dealers and how they are legally prohibited from doing certain things to help the customers because they violate franchise laws. In every other retail industry I can think of, the mfr controls who sells their products and can take the products away if the retailer doesn't meet their standards. How can you possibly justify making it ILLEGAL for Ford to do the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Maybe Ford and others should copy what Verizion Wireless does... have a few corporate stories in each State with privately owned Verision stories. Ford would stock all of their products for test drives at the corporate stories and would only sale X/A fleet programs. Profits from those sales would be shared with all local Ford dealerships. To ensure constant quality and customer fairness, Ford should own all of its dealerships. Privately owned dealerships is so 19th Century.. Whats the story Jerry....... :hysterical: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Ford should own a franchise that has every car/truck with each trim level. At the Ford company franchise, I could only order cars/trucks. If I wanted one now, I would have to visit a independently own dealership. I should be able to set an appointment to drive up to three vehicles of my choice every 6 months. If I want/need to drive more, then I would have to put up a non-refundable deposit for a car order. I should be able to order on line or walk in and order what I want, and track the vehicle 24 hrs/day with updates each week after the order. A live video of the car/truck being made would be nice too. After the vehicle was made, I would have a choice of: pick it up at the plant and save the shipping fee, pick it up at the dealership or have it delivered to my home. I also want an on-line manual video with Jill that explains everything about the car and all of its options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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