Ford August 2010 Sales Figure Discussion

[akirby]

No one knows exactly how many conquest sales that the Flex gets. The percentage of conquest sales might be better then it is for other Ford vehicles,

 

Ummmm.......Ford knows......

 

According to the automaker's research, the Flex is doing all the right things from a brand perspective. Forty-percent of buyers are conquest sales, more than half of that coming from Toyota and Honda, and 49% of them are new to the Ford family.

 

but what about the people who want a Ford CUV that seats 7 and their only choice at the present time is the Flex? How many of those buyers will instead buy the new Explorer?

 

My wife has owned 2 explorers and an Aviator and would love to have a new Explorer. She took one look at the Flex and said no way. She HATES it. So while there may be a few buyers who just want a Ford brand 7 seater I think most would have bought a Pilot or Highlander or some other brand before they'd buy a Flex.

 

Flex buyers are not your typical Ford Explorer buyer.

[2005Explorer]

Flex buyers are not your typical Ford Explorer buyer.

 

Well you do have a point there. As a single 34 year old male living in the Black Hills of SD I'd LOVE a 2011 Explorer. I wouldn't be caught dead in the Flex. Like I already said I am probably biased toward the Explorer anyhow because of who I am and where I live. That still doesn't change my opinion that the Explorer will be the more successful product for Ford. The Flex might be able to have a larger profit margin then the new Explorer, but if they sell a lot more Explorers then the Explorer will be making the big bucks for Ford. Explorer should be the priority in marketing and investment in improvement. If Ford is investing more into the Flex compared to the new Explorer then I don't agree with it.

[2005Explorer]

Lastly I think all of you are selling the new Explorer short when you claim it won't be able to get any conquest buyers. The new Explorer is going to do very well and will be able to pull in new customers as well as current Ford customers. Don't sell it short before it is even sitting on the lot.

[RichardJensen]

The Flex might be able to have a larger profit margin then the new Explorer

If the Flex has a profit margin, why would Ford drop it?

 

Ford will not rob the Explorer kitty to pay for improvements to the Flex. The Flex will pay its own way. That is policy at Ford.

 

Lastly I think all of you are selling the new Explorer short when you claim it won't be able to get any conquest buyers.

It won't pull 49% of its buyers from outside the Ford family.

[2005Explorer]

It won't pull 49% of its buyers from outside the Ford family.

 

How do you know how many it will pull? It may not be 49%, but then again to pull that 49% how many loyal Ford customers did Ford lose to other makes when the only 7 passenger CUV it offered was the Flex?

 

A successful product should be able to not only retain current customers, but also to attract some new ones. I feel the new Explorer can do this. It might not attract 49%, but to say it won't attract many new customers to the Ford brand is wrong. Lets give it a chance before we brand it a failure when it comes to attracting customers from outside the Ford family.

 

On Facebook the Ford Explorer fan group currently has 58,783 people that like it. The Ford Flex has 580. The Lincoln MKT doesn't even have a fan group. LOL

Edited September 5, 2010 by 2005Explorer

[akirby]

Well you do have a point there. As a single 34 year old male living in the Black Hills of SD I'd LOVE a 2011 Explorer. I wouldn't be caught dead in the Flex. Like I already said I am probably biased toward the Explorer anyhow because of who I am and where I live. That still doesn't change my opinion that the Explorer will be the more successful product for Ford. The Flex might be able to have a larger profit margin then the new Explorer, but if they sell a lot more Explorers then the Explorer will be making the big bucks for Ford. Explorer should be the priority in marketing and investment in improvement. If Ford is investing more into the Flex compared to the new Explorer then I don't agree with it.

 

I don't see your point. Of course the Explorer will sell more - a lot more. Nobody is saying it has to be one or the other (except FordBuyer of course). Flex doesn't have to sell 10K/month to be successful. The costs are minimal due to all the shared components and it adds value to Ford by bringing in new customers who wouldn't typically consider a Ford and that is due to 2 things - the EB 3.5L and the in your face styling.

 

Explorer is a Wendy's single with cheese. Flex is the Baconator. It's that simple.

[RichardJensen]

How do you know how many it will pull? It may not be 49%, but then again to pull that 49% how many loyal Ford customers did Ford lose to other makes when the only 7 passenger CUV it offered was the Flex?

 

A successful product should be able to not only retain current customers, but also to attract some new ones. I feel the new Explorer can do this. It might not attract 49%, but to say it won't attract many new customers to the Ford brand is wrong. Lets give it a chance before we brand it a failure when it comes to attracting customers from outside the Ford family.

 

On Facebook the Ford Explorer fan group currently has 58,783 people that like it. The Ford Flex has 580. The Lincoln MKT doesn't even have a fan group. LOL

 

It will *not* pull 49%. You can make book on that. That's a huge number in this industry--not just for Ford.

 

And the Explorer was *heavily* promoted on Facebook. I couldn't even tell you how many times Facebook recommended the Explorer page to me, and I don't think I've ever mentioned Ford in a Facebook post.

[2005Explorer]

It will *not* pull 49%. You can make book on that. That's a huge number in this industry--not just for Ford.

 

And the Explorer was *heavily* promoted on Facebook. I couldn't even tell you how many times Facebook recommended the Explorer page to me, and I don't think I've ever mentioned Ford in a Facebook post.

 

So then retaining current customers is not a priority? Ford lost as many current customers with the Flex as they gained new ones. The new Explorer has a much better chance at retaining current Ford customers then the Flex did.

 

The Flex is a niche product and that is fine. I have no issues with niche products as long as the company treats them like a niche product. Everyone around here said that dumping Mercury is a great idea because it will allow more investment to be put into Lincoln. I agree with that statement and I feel that investment into a vehicle line should be dependent on it's total cash return. If the Explorer returns 10x the total profit back to Ford compared to the Flex then it should receive 10x the investment. I don't think that is happening however.

 

It is fine if you prefer the Flex over the new Explorer, but I can't wait to see what sales are going to look like this time next year. I am very excited about the new Explorer and seeing Ford back at the top in the mid sized SUV/CUV market.

[RichardJensen]

The Freestyle/Taurus X was supposed to fill that gap. It didn't. The Explorer is a successor to the Freestyle/Taurus X--in fact, I suspect that a considerable portion of the Freestyle/Taurus X engineering is present in the Explorer's body.

 

The Explorer exists not because the Flex is a failure but because the Freestyle was.

[2005Explorer]

The Freestyle/Taurus X was supposed to fill that gap. It didn't. The Explorer is a successor to the Freestyle/Taurus X--in fact, I suspect that a considerable portion of the Freestyle/Taurus X engineering is present in the Explorer's body.

 

The Explorer exists not because the Flex is a failure but because the Freestyle was.

 

I would agree with that assessment, but I would go a step further and say that it is a successor to the Freestyle/TaurusX and current Explorer. Its like Ford took the Freestyle and current Explorer and threw it into a blender (a Blendtec blender) and poured out the new Explorer. I think putting a little "Explorer" into the Freestyle was the missing ingredient. I guess only time will tell if Ford got the whole CUV thing right this time around. I think they have, but we will have to wait and see how the public responds to it once it is out on the lots.

 

I don't feel the Flex is a failure. It has done fine as a niche vehicle. It's just not a volume seller and never will be. Ford needs a volume seller in this class though and I think Explorer will finally provide that.

[itguy09]

I don't get the hate for the Flex. It is an awesome vehicle. Almost bought one last December. If the dealer would have had the one we went to see I'd be driving that right now. In fact, my wife wants one to replace her Escape. The styling is great and the interior is limo-like and very well done. It's an awesome machine. Maybe we're in the wrong demo (mid 30's with no kids but trying) but we really dig the Flex. So do a couple of our friends but it is a love/hate thing - you either love it or hate it.

 

I do think part of Ford's problem is there is no advertising for the Flex. None. I see Mike Rowe hawking Escapes, F150's, Fusions, and Fiestas (and to a lesser extent Tauruses) but there's NOTHING about the Flex. It's like it doesn't exist. When I told people I was thinking of a Flex they were confused "What's that?" was what I got a lot of. That's a huge issue; people have no idea it exists. Those that have them absolutely love them (even Edmunds). I bet if Ford did a little advertising the sales #'s would increase.

 

And the Explorer has a lot of baggage associated with it. I told the wife to look at the Explorer instead as it has all the toys of my Taurus. She immediately responded with "I bet it will be a POS like your old Explorer". When I told her it was the same platform as my Taurus (and it's been a great car) the next thing was "I bet it will get crappy fuel economy like your old one". I told her it was the same engine (without Ecoboost) as the Taurus but she was not convinced and it got a ho-hum from her.

 

I wonder how many people have the horrible image from the 90s and early 2000's of the Explorer (ours was a POS) and it will not turn around. The Taurus had a similar stigma but it wasn't the POS stigma, it was the boring rental car stigma. And once people look and drive in mine they all agree it's far from the Taurus of old and a truly awesome car.

 

It will be interesting to see where the Explorer and Flex go.....

[2005Explorer]

And the Explorer has a lot of baggage associated with it. I told the wife to look at the Explorer instead as it has all the toys of my Taurus. She immediately responded with "I bet it will be a POS like your old Explorer". When I told her it was the same platform as my Taurus (and it's been a great car) the next thing was "I bet it will get crappy fuel economy like your old one". I told her it was the same engine (without Ecoboost) as the Taurus but she was not convinced and it got a ho-hum from her.

 

Sometimes people won't believe you until you show them. Wait until the new Explorer is sitting on the lot and then take your wife to go look at it. Her impression might change when she actually sees it, sits in it and drives it. If you are trying to suggest that Ford should have renamed the Explorer, I strongly disagree with you.

 

Sure the Explorer has some baggage, but for every Explorer customer that thought his or her Explorer was a POS, there were thousands that loved their Explorers.

 

The Flex is love it or hate it. The people that hate the Flex... hate the Flex. The people that love the Flex... love the Flex. There is very little middle ground and I suspect that most of it has to do with the styling of the vehicle.

Edited September 5, 2010 by 2005Explorer

[silvrsvt]

And the Explorer was *heavily* promoted on Facebook. I couldn't even tell you how many times Facebook recommended the Explorer page to me, and I don't think I've ever mentioned Ford in a Facebook post.

 

 

Not to mention that the Explorer has what, nearly 20 years of history behind it? I'm pretty sure that nearly every one who has driven knows what an Explorer is too.

 

 

 

 

[silvrsvt]

 

Sure the Explorer has some baggage, but for every Explorer customer that thought his or her Explorer was a POS, there were thousands that loved their Explorers.

 

 

 

My old man had a 2002 with all the 2002 problems (transmission and rear diff) and he loves and wouldn't mind getting the 2012 Explorer..but can't afford it since hes retired now.

[akirby]

So then retaining current customers is not a priority? Ford lost as many current customers with the Flex as they gained new ones. The new Explorer has a much better chance at retaining current Ford customers then the Flex did.

 

Say what?? How did Ford "lose" customers with the Flex?

 

it should receive 10x the investment. I don't think that is happening however.

 

So exactly what type of "investment" do you think Ford hasn't done? You just said the new explorer was great. Sounds like to me they invested a lot.

 

It is fine if you prefer the Flex over the new Explorer

 

Whoa sparky. Richard never said he preferred the Flex and neither did most of the rest of us. You are TOTALLY missing the point.

 

We're saying that both the Flex and Explorer can co-exist because they appeal to different buyers. We're saying that they don't have to kill the Flex just because the Explorer came out or because sales are less than they originally wanted.

[rmc523]

Explorer could also mean more people in the showroom looking at Flex, and if they decide they want the 3.5 Ecoboost, they're not getting it from an Explorer.

 

 

I'll be curious to see how rear legroom is in the Explorer compared to the Flex given it's 5" shorter in length.

 

 

I agree in saying that Explorer could have the opposite affect on Flex sales that many seem to think. I see Explorer actually helping Flex sales somewhat because it will bring customers into the showroom that may've not known about the Flex before since advertising for Flex is completely non-existent.

 

I think 3rd row room in the Explorer is about the same as Flex, but most of at 5" comes out of the second row - a key 'feature' of the Flex.

 

I wouldn't be caught dead in the Flex.

 

Is that just because you don't like it's design, or because you think it has a stigma you don't like?

[NickF1011]

I hope it stays and Ford improves the fuel mileage. I would consider one if they could get the fuel mileage up there a few more notches. I've always liked the Flex and its looks.

 

What was the last vehicle Ford refreshed and didn't increase the fuel economy? It will at the very least get the changes that the Explorer has received, if not even more. In other words, it should get as good or better fuel economy than the Explorer.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

The Flex is love it or hate it. The people that hate the Flex... hate the Flex. The people that love the Flex... love the Flex. There is very little middle ground and I suspect that most of it has to do with the styling of the vehicle.

 

 

Flex reminds me of an American version of the Mini Traveller upscaled to fit Americans in.

 

Baggage is not Explorers fault its a great SUV, Ford should never have fitted shitty cheap n' nasty Jap tyres on it, Good Year/Michelin are much better tyres they save lives they stop in shorter stopping distances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2010 by Ford Jellymoulds

[itguy09]

Sometimes people won't believe you until you show them. Wait until the new Explorer is sitting on the lot and then take your wife to go look at it. Her impression might change when she actually sees it, sits in it and drives it. If you are trying to suggest that Ford should have renamed the Explorer, I strongly disagree with you.

 

Sure the Explorer has some baggage, but for every Explorer customer that thought his or her Explorer was a POS, there were thousands that loved their Explorers.

 

I'm sure we will go look at both the Flex and the Explorer when the time comes for her to replace her Escape. And we'll probably look at the competition as well. It's always good to look at everything out there in the style you are looking for.

 

I'm not sure about the name change - I agree that names need to stick around and should have a longer shelf life than a loaf of bread. It's just that the Explorer name got attached to everything wrong about the SUV craze of the 90's. And then there was the spotty quality of the things that was never good. I lived through a 2000 Explorer and it was the thing that put me square in the arms of the Japanese manufacturers. I bought that 00 Explorer brand new and never off-roaded it and I'm one who takes very good care of his vehicles. At 58k the trans went, bu 70k the SOHC engine was starting the rattle dance, it got horrible gas mileage, etc. I was extremely happy to dump it and go to my G35 in 2004!

 

Those at my office that HAD Explorers no longer have them. Some have gone back to Ford, others have not. If anything it will be very interesting to see how this plays out. The Explorer name does have a lot of baggage for the average American customer (sales #'s show that plainly). It's different than the Taurus from 00-03 where people either: 1) didn't think Ford still made them, or 2) it was a car only Hertz bought.

 

 

The Flex is love it or hate it. The people that hate the Flex... hate the Flex. The people that love the Flex... love the Flex. There is very little middle ground and I suspect that most of it has to do with the styling of the vehicle.

 

That is true. It's definitely a polarizing design. Which, IMHO there needs to be more of. Everything sort of runs together today.

 

But I think it is advertising too. When I bought my Taurus in December people had no clue what it was and what it looked like. People at work thought I bought the old 500-based Taurus and were scratching their heads. Then I said "See that red car there in the parking lot?" They looked and said "Yeah". I responded "That's the new Taurus." Jaws dropped. I told the dealer the same thing when I bought the car - Ford needs to advertise it and the Flex more.

 

That's what Ford needs. Get the new cars out there, advertise the heck out of each and every one. Mike Rowe is an awesome spokesperson but I'm getting tired of hearing about the Escape, F150 and Fusion. Ford makes other things that are world class: Flex, Taurus, Fiesta, new Focus. With the exception of the new Focus ads for the other 3 are non existent.

[2005Explorer]

Is that just because you don't like it's design, or because you think it has a stigma you don't like?

 

I would say a little of both, however styling is probably at the top of my list. I have seen some Flexes that look quite attractive and I think it is much cooler then a minivan, however it just looks too long and boxy for me. The new Explorer on the other hand is sleek and very modern looking. It looks adventurous and masculine. I don't get those feelings when I look at the Flex. The actual design of the Flex is good as far as passenger space goes, but the style doesn't do it for me.

 

I know your a Flex owner and I have seen your Flex. It's a nice ride. No doubt about that. It's possible that we just have two different eyes when it comes to style or it might be just the fact of where we live and how a vehicle looks in that landscape. You live in Florida I believe and I live up here in the Black Hills of SD. The Explorer will look right at home sitting next to a mountain stream under some pine trees. Do I like the outdoorsy image that Explorer portrays better then I do the Flex? Yes, however I understand that some people will like the more urban feel to the Flex.

 

In the end it all comes down to personal preference. I am NOT suggesting that Ford drop the Flex, I am however interested to see what happens with Flex sales once the Explorer is selling at Ford dealers. That's it. Just interested to see if it has any impact or not. It may have a negative impact or as you suggest a positive impact. No one knows yet.

Edited September 5, 2010 by 2005Explorer

[sullynd]

It looks adventurous and masculine.

 

I'm not saying the Flex looks masculine (It's primarily my wife's car) but "masculine" is not something I would have ever thought to ascribe to the 2011 Explorer.

[FordBuyer]

I don't get the hate for the Flex. It is an awesome vehicle. Almost bought one last December. If the dealer would have had the one we went to see I'd be driving that right now. In fact, my wife wants one to replace her Escape. The styling is great and the interior is limo-like and very well done. It's an awesome machine. Maybe we're in the wrong demo (mid 30's with no kids but trying) but we really dig the Flex. So do a couple of our friends but it is a love/hate thing - you either love it or hate it.

 

I do think part of Ford's problem is there is no advertising for the Flex. None. I see Mike Rowe hawking Escapes, F150's, Fusions, and Fiestas (and to a lesser extent Tauruses) but there's NOTHING about the Flex. It's like it doesn't exist. When I told people I was thinking of a Flex they were confused "What's that?" was what I got a lot of. That's a huge issue; people have no idea it exists. Those that have them absolutely love them (even Edmunds). I bet if Ford did a little advertising the sales #'s would increase.

 

And the Explorer has a lot of baggage associated with it. I told the wife to look at the Explorer instead as it has all the toys of my Taurus. She immediately responded with "I bet it will be a POS like your old Explorer". When I told her it was the same platform as my Taurus (and it's been a great car) the next thing was "I bet it will get crappy fuel economy like your old one". I told her it was the same engine (without Ecoboost) as the Taurus but she was not convinced and it got a ho-hum from her.

 

I wonder how many people have the horrible image from the 90s and early 2000's of the Explorer (ours was a POS) and it will not turn around. The Taurus had a similar stigma but it wasn't the POS stigma, it was the boring rental car stigma. And once people look and drive in mine they all agree it's far from the Taurus of old and a truly awesome car.

 

It will be interesting to see where the Explorer and Flex go.....

 

 

When Ford "forgets" or ignores a vehicle in its lineup, that is usually not a good sign. The Flex has become anonymous as Ford advertising focuses on its high volume sellers. Flex is not a bread and butter vehicle for Ford. Hopefully the new Explorer will be, and sell in 100,000+/year range with modest incentives. You know that is what Ford is aiming for. About 7,000-10,000/month sales rate. Anything lower will not be good. The Edge sells in that range and the Escape is well above it.

[FordBuyer]

I'm not saying the Flex looks masculine (It's primarily my wife's car) but "masculine" is not something I would have ever thought to ascribe to the 2011 Explorer.

 

In Metro Detroit, the Flex seems to be hitting the same demographic as the Taurus X did. Youngish females in their early 30's with kids and car seats. A few older couples, but mainly younger families with kids. The wife seems to drive the vehicle most of the time and I imagine whole family uses it for trips pulling the boat up north to their cottage. It will interesting to see who is driving the new Explorer. Of course women are taking over the world...60% females in college now and most of those who have lost jobs in this recession are men. So stands to reason for auto companies to market their new vehicles to women.

[sullynd]

I see more Flex in SW Michigan each time I am there than anywhere else I have been.

[2005Explorer]

I'm not saying the Flex looks masculine (It's primarily my wife's car) but "masculine" is not something I would have ever thought to ascribe to the 2011 Explorer.

 

Compared to other CUVs or wagons, yes, I think the new Explorer looks masculine. The same sort of masculinity that the new Taurus portrays. It's not in your face like some jacked up F-250, but it is there. Just enough to make the Explorer look like it belongs in the outdoors. It isn't going to make your genitals larger, but it isn't going to shrink them away like the Freestyle or Taurus X did.

 

As far as the Flex goes I find it very metro. That doesn't mean it's feminine or masculine, it just means it looks better in the city then it does in the backcountry. Styling is all subjective however. Just because one person finds something attractive or feels good driving it, doesn't mean the next will.