Ford August 2010 Sales Figure Discussion

[silvrsvt]

Ford only planned on selling 12,000 a year.

 

Citation for that? I haven't heard call out official expected numbers since the Flex...

[FordBuyer]

Citation for that? I haven't heard call out official expected numbers since the Flex...

 

If Ford has an oversupply of them as they do, then Ford produced far more than are selling on monthly basis. It looks like Lincoln dealers are stuck with three times more than what is considered "ideal" or as I say is normal or healthy. That is failure in my book one year after being shipped to dealers. I would suspect the ATP's are going to drop as Ford starts to offer incentives on them to reduce supply. If I was in the market for an MKT or MKS for that matter, I would just wait as the incentives will only increase as these two dogs become older. Ford is already trying to move the MKS through greater incentives. As bad as sales are for the MKS, MKT sales are even worse. Common sense would tell you that Ford needs to sell at least 2,000/month of any Lincoln vehicle it produces. It's not an exclusive brand anymore and hasn't been in a long time. Cadillac sales would be a good footprint for Lincoln to follow. Now they have healthy numbers.

[FordBuyer]

Ford only planned on selling 12,000 a year. Sure they may be selling slightly below that number, but the transaction prices are much more than expected.

 

You call 30% below "slightly." Where did you take your math? 30% of anything is a lot. And if Lincoln is stuck with about a 172 day supply of MKTs, that means Ford was expecting to sell more than 12,000 probably. Now I'm sure the economy affected that number some, but still Lincoln is underperforming other luxury brands.

 

Finally, why are all you guys apologists for Lincoln? You spin everything into wonderfullness. There is nothing wonderful about Lincoln right now. They are struggling and the MKT is the poster boy for that struggle. I'm sorry, but the year old MKT does not mean a good omen about Lincoln is forthcoming. It's more an ominous sign. Let's hope the new MKC is a homerun, because Lincoln needs a homerun badly.

 

How about Lincoln using its expertise with aluminum body Jags, and produce a new RWD Lincoln aluminum body sedan that commands a premium price and can be profitable at 8,000/year sales range? Since it will be 400 pounds lighter than steel body, it will have outstanding performance and fuel mileage. Duh?

[TomServo92]

You spin everything into wonderfullness.

 

Because you spin everything into stupidity.

[rmc523]

If I was in the market for an MKT or MKS for that matter, I would just wait as the incentives will only increase as these two dogs become older. Ford is already trying to move the MKS through greater incentives.

 

 

With that mindset, you'd never get one because you'd be waiting for incentives to continue increasing. Plus, MKS is coming up to it's MCE, so it's not surprising sales are sliding.

 

How about Lincoln using its expertise with aluminum body Jags, and produce a new RWD Lincoln aluminum body sedan that commands a premium price and can be profitable at 8,000/year sales range? Since it will be 400 pounds lighter than steel body, it will have outstanding performance and fuel mileage. Duh?

 

Hold up......so MKT that already commands a premium price, shares platforms with other vehicles to increase profitability, and using the average rate provided by Nick is selling at just under an 8,000 units/year rate is an absolute failure, but some aluminum body RWD sedan that will be more expensive to produce that sells at an 8,000 units/year is suddenly acceptable? How does that work?

Edited September 2, 2010 by rmc523

[FordBuyer]

Because you spin everything into stupidity.

 

I'm smart enough to figure out that the MKT and MKS are not selling well. Something many on here can't figure out even with figures staring them in the face. The worse they do, the more you defend them. Oh wow...Ford sold 10 Lincoln MKT's last month at ATP of $45,000. Isn't that wonderful. Let's spend another half bil on it and see if we can increase the number to15 with a little higher ATP. If Ford truly wants to think that way, then do a real halo car like an aluminum body Lincoln that rivals a Jag, and charge $80,000 for it. Not some garish, cartoon car like the MKT that retails for half that price. Whoever is responsible for the MKT should be fired and sent to Kia or Mitsubishi.

[Edstock]

but the year old MKT does not mean a good omen about Lincoln is forthcoming. It's more an ominous sign.

It's a sign that you suffer from Attention Deficit Disorder. 1 year old, and you trumpet on how it is a failure. Well, as a new model launch in bad market conditions, it's doing OK after 1, repeat 1 year. Unlike, say, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, there is not a large number of owners out there. Most TC owners are becoming actuarial statistics.

 

Re-building the Lincoln brand is not like instant mashed-potatoes. It takes time. And with this economy, it's going to take even longer.

 

So, take your ADD impatience and STFU. Capice?

 

Thanks for playing

[TomServo92]

I'm smart enough to figure out...

 

No, you aren't. Your facts have been proven wrong time after time and yet you persist on making the same arguments over and over again. That, my friend, is the definition of stupidity.

[FordBuyer]

It's a sign that you suffer from Attention Deficit Disorder. 1 year old, and you trumpet on how it is a failure. Well, as a new model launch in bad market conditions, it's doing OK after 1, repeat 1 year. Unlike, say, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, there is not a large number of owners out there. Most TC owners are becoming actuarial statistics.

 

Re-building the Lincoln brand is not like instant mashed-potatoes. It takes time. And with this economy, it's going to take even longer.

 

So, take your ADD impatience and STFU. Capice?

 

Thanks for playing

 

Question for you? If you were in market for luxury CUV, would you seriously buy one? Honest answer. And btw, your posts outnumber Lincoln sales in one year. I know you're not interested, but I would not consider a Lincoln MKT. The only Lincoln I would put on my list is the new MKX. That is it. As for Mercury, Milan and Mariner would have been on my list. And so would have the Sable if Mercury had done latest generation. I wish I could say all Lincolns would be on my list. But that is not the case. Maybe someday.

[FordBuyer]

No, you aren't. Your facts have been proven wrong time after time and yet you persist on making the same arguments over and over again. That, my friend, is the definition of stupidity.

 

No, it's the sign of an independent thinker who doesn't go along with the popular BOF spin. You can take Lincoln's miserable 6,000 yearly sales number and put it in a pillow and dream on it if you wish. But not me.

[Deanh]

in response to claims of perhaps "substandard" sales numbers regarding the fiesta. my two cents....cars are ALWAYS slow upon initial release aside from the initial retail orders. From what i have seen on the showroom, the response has been great, but we only have 4 in stock and i am constantly hearing...just like THAT one but in white, or exactly like that but manual..or.........and with inventories relatively low everywhere the orders arent easy to appese. That and lets face it...who here thinks 6.9 is a 'deal"?????? Hell, i went through Wells and beat that rate by 4 points!....of course I used white out on my fair Issac score and they failed to notice it was hand written :shades: ....along with no lease programs ( although I did just see one and it SEEMS to be in line with the competition ) these were/ are all hurdles....just goes to show, no matter how good, or better a vehicle is than the competiotn its doesnt mean much if other areas of importance are not adressed.....

[TomServo92]

Question for you? If you were in market for luxury CUV, would you seriously buy one? Honest answer. And btw, your posts outnumber Lincoln sales in one year. I know you're not interested, but I would not consider a Lincoln MKT. The only Lincoln I would put on my list is the new MKX. That is it. As for Mercury, Milan and Mariner would have been on my list. And so would have the Sable if Mercury had done latest generation. I wish I could say all Lincolns would be on my list. But that is not the case. Maybe someday.

 

Yes.

[TomServo92]

No, it's the sign of an independent thinker idiot who doesn't go along with the popular BOF spin comprehend the facts presented to him.

 

Fixed it for you. :shades:

Edited September 3, 2010 by TomServo92

[FordBuyer]

Fixed it for you. :shades:

 

You're going to need more than shades to keep getting dizzy from all your goodie goodie Lincoln is wonderful spins.

[FordBuyer]

in response to claims of perhaps "substandard" sales numbers regarding the fiesta. my two cents....cars are ALWAYS slow upon initial release aside from the initial retail orders. From what i have seen on the showroom, the response has been great, but we only have 4 in stock and i am constantly hearing...just like THAT one but in white, or exactly like that but manual..or.........and with inventories relatively low everywhere the orders arent easy to appese. That and lets face it...who here thinks 6.9 is a 'deal"?????? Hell, i went through Wells and beat that rate by 4 points!....of course I used white out on my fair Issac score and they failed to notice it was hand written :shades: ....along with no lease programs ( although I did just see one and it SEEMS to be in line with the competition ) these were/ are all hurdles....just goes to show, no matter how good, or better a vehicle is than the competiotn its doesnt mean much if other areas of importance are not adressed.....

 

That's what I was trying to say before the BOF spin crowd came out. You can't sell what you don't have. Right now about 7,500 Fiestas are bottled up in Mexico somewhere trying to get to the states to refresh dealer lots. Ford dealers have sold most if not all of the initial shipments. Good news...two days ago Jack Demmer Ford across from WAP had Zero Fiestas on lot, and today had ONE! That means ONE made it through maze called blown out Mexican RR system. North Brothers, Blackwell have no Fiestas and Bill Brown Ford, third largest Ford dealer by volume last year, was down to two after having up to 20 two weeks ago. I'm talking on lot, not on some poorly maintained web site that is updated once a month. IMO, For could sell twice the number of Fiesta if it had them. Most are sitting on holding lots in Mexico or sitting in auto carrier somewhere in Mexican RR system trying to get across border some month.

[TomServo92]

You're going to need more than shades to keep getting dizzy from all your goodie goodie Lincoln is wonderful spins.

 

I had something else I wanted to say but I'll just leave it at this: bucket of rocks.

[Bob Rosadini]

Hate to interupt the Lincoln brawl here but noted that the heavy truck sales numbers don't match what Heavy Duty Trucking posts for class 6 and 7. HDT's numbers (June YTD) are higher than the Ford numbers in the August report. The only thing I can think of is that the 650 numbers are included in "F Series" totals while 750's are listed seperately as "Heavies". Any opinions?

[Edstock]

Question for you? If you were in market for luxury CUV, would you seriously buy one?

To you, it's a CUV. To me, it's a really big, luxurious AWD sedan. Stylistically, it's much closer in profile to pre-WW2 cars. I happen to like it, and you don't.

 

Saw one, last week. All black, tinted windows, EcoBoost, flying north on our 400 superhighway. Looked like a really nice way to travel.

 

Would I buy one? No. Why? I just don't need anything that big, be it an S-class or a 7-series. Even an MKZ is bigger than I need.

 

Again, re-building a brand takes time. The MKT will get an MCE, and maybe it will get a complete re-do 2 or 3 years after that, as a somewhat smaller, lighter vehicle. Or not; but if so, there will be some other large Lincoln, and chances are, you won't like that one, either.

[rmc523]

That's what I was trying to say before the BOF spin crowd came out. You can't sell what you don't have.

 

As I said before, when Dean was saying the same thing about the Flex you kept arguing against him, but now the same argument is ok for you to use?

[FordBuyer]

To you, it's a CUV. To me, it's a really big, luxurious AWD sedan. Stylistically, it's much closer in profile to pre-WW2 cars. I happen to like it, and you don't.

 

Saw one, last week. All black, tinted windows, EcoBoost, flying north on our 400 superhighway. Looked like a really nice way to travel.

 

Would I buy one? No. Why? I just don't need anything that big, be it an S-class or a 7-series. Even an MKZ is bigger than I need.

 

Again, re-building a brand takes time. The MKT will get an MCE, and maybe it will get a complete re-do 2 or 3 years after that, as a somewhat smaller, lighter vehicle. Or not; but if so, there will be some other large Lincoln, and chances are, you won't like that one, either.

 

I like the new MKX. And I noticed the base MKX is only $2,000 more than an Edge Limited. I would definitely choose the MKX over the Edge if I was interested in stylish CUV. I consider the MKX best in class followed by the Edge. The new MKX is not a cheaply priced vehicle, and with a little luck and a little better economy it should be able to do 2,000 units/month. The Lincoln MKX is Lincoln's best vehicle. Ford did a nice job with it.

[TomServo92]

The Lincoln MKX is Lincoln's best vehicle. Ford did a nice job with it.

 

And that's why so many of us are positive about Lincoln's future.

[jpd80]

What impresses me is the Ford brand product range versus Chevrolet, I really can't see anything I'd call a dud and most vehicles ask good prices in their respective market sectors. So while those Fords may not be completely to a Buick/Mercury level, they're getting mighty close and with that in mind, Lincoln's perceived low sales are less of a consequence to Ford compared to GM needing Buick and Cadillac to add frosting to Chevrolet's empty pockets...

 

This is why Ford attending to the Ford brand first is so crucial to their success.

Edited September 3, 2010 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

What impresses me is the Ford brand product range versus Chevrolet, I really can't see anything I'd call a dud and most vehicles ask good prices in their respective market sectors. So while those Fords may not be completely to a Buick/Mercury level, they're getting mighty close and with that in mind, Lincoln's perceived low sales are less of a consequence to Ford compared to GM needing Buick and Cadillac to add frosting to Chevrolet's empty pockets...

 

This is why Ford attending to the Ford brand first is so crucial to their success.

 

Since Ford brand sales are about 97% of Ford's total sales, I would agree. Even if Lincon sales improve to 10,000 units/month in few years, they will still be inconsequential to Ford's overall sales. And to think not that many years ago Ford used to sell 400,000 Mercurys and 200,000 Lincolns/year. The good old days.

[TexasMan77]

Saw a Fiesta on the road for the first time today, black 4-door. Looked good.

 

I'm noticing alot of transit connects and Taurus's (non rentals), Driving around San Antonio.

 

BTW, whens the final day of GM production?

[jpd80]

Since Ford brand sales are about 97% of Ford's total sales, I would agree. Even if Lincon sales improve to 10,000 units/month in few years, they will still be inconsequential to Ford's overall sales. And to think not that many years ago Ford used to sell 400,000 Mercurys and 200,000 Lincolns/year. The good old days.

Ford and GM used to do a lot of things but the game has dramatically changed in the past 10 years.

The time you speak of netted Ford close to $20 billion profit and yet here we are with much lower sales

and in the first 6 months of very indifferent times, Ford has made $4.7 Billion profit and paid down $7 billion in debt.

 

It feels like Ford has rediscovered why the F*** they are in business, to make money - lots of money

and not to just make hundreds and thousands of cars with no bottom line..

 

Higher gas prices, more import brands with more market share, Ford struggling to remake itself to suit the changing times. It's no wonder Mercury and Lincoln have fallen off buyers lists. There's just no spark in that market sector, nothing that really stands out anymore...

Edited September 3, 2010 by jpd80