Ford August 2010 Sales Figure Discussion

[jpd80]

Look at the actual production drop from August 2009 to August 2010:

 

Ford -27,000

GM -60,000

Toyota -77,000

[akirby]

Yes, Q7 have been horrible as well...But for Audi thats not much of a problem for a vehicle that is sold worldwide, so overall numbers will probably be much higher to justify the existance. For the MKT, we are probably the sole market, if it doesnt sell well, the plug gets pulled.

 

And the MKT shares a platform and manufacturing facility with several other vehicles which probably lowers their cost even more than Audi's worldwide sales, especially considering they have to be shipped in from Slovakia.

[ANTAUS]

As long as ford makes a profit on them, thats all that matters...I dont say "Oh it's a failure" because a vehicles success should not be measured by it's sales numbers, rather, what it contributes to the line...Some "successful" cars probably dont even post a profit (as Toyota has admitted with the Camry) and bring other attributes to the line...with the MKT, I haven't figured out what it's real internal mission was.... So I'm about to define it as "failed" pretty soon.

[ausrutherford]

As long as ford makes a profit on them, thats all that matters...I dont say "Oh it's a failure" because a vehicles success should not be measured by it's sales numbers, rather, what it contributes to the line...Some "successful" cars probably dont even post a profit (as Toyota has admitted with the Camry) and bring other attributes to the line...with the MKT, I haven't figured out what it's real internal mission was.... So I'm about to define it as "failed" pretty soon.

 

From what I heard Ford only planned to build 9-10,000 a year to begin with. Looks like worldwide sales should be around that...and with a average trans price of around $55k...well should be pretty good.

[akirby]

As long as ford makes a profit on them, thats all that matters...I dont say "Oh it's a failure" because a vehicles success should not be measured by it's sales numbers, rather, what it contributes to the line...Some "successful" cars probably dont even post a profit (as Toyota has admitted with the Camry) and bring other attributes to the line...with the MKT, I haven't figured out what it's real internal mission was.... So I'm about to define it as "failed" pretty soon.

 

Ford does an internal business case that says if they sell X units at Y ATP they can make Z profit. If costs can be reduced more or ATP or unit volume is higher than what was in the business case then the Z profit target can still be reached. There is also an intangible benefit to having a vehicle that fills a specific niche for a brand if it keeps a customer in a Ford vehicle where they might otherwise go to a competitor. Once they leave it's hard to get them back.

 

I don't see a MKT buyer purchasing anything else in the Ford or Lincoln lineup. Flex would be the closest and might work for some but the rest would go to an Escalade or Audi Q7 or Mercedes G-whatever.

 

I also expect the next gen MKT to have more appealing exterior styling and even more interior features. But even so this is a tiny, tiny market segment. Nobody will sell 50K of this type of vehicle.

[FordBuyer]

And the MKT shares a platform and manufacturing facility with several other vehicles which probably lowers their cost even more than Audi's worldwide sales, especially considering they have to be shipped in from Slovakia.

 

You guys need to give it up. I doubt very much if Ford went to the trouble and expense of building a vehicle called the MKT to sell only 600/month. If they had known that, they would have never built it. That super low number means you will hardly see them on the street, and that they will sit on dealer lots way too long. Lincoln is not Ferrari. It's not like WOW! there goes an MKT as your heartbeat goes up. It's not that kind of vehicle. On the other hand, seeing a Ferrari go down the road gets your attention as so few are built and sold. I don't know Ford's internal sales projections on the MKT, but they were not 600/month which seems to be its selling rate long term at best. Even the frickin Town Car outsells the MKT. The MKT has failure written all over it. We are not helping Ford by putting lipstick on this pig. I'm not saying get rid of it right away, but please Ford put no more money into it. Replace it with a Lincoln version of the Explorer and be done with this failure. Having the slow selling Flex in the lineup is enough for now...don't need this vehicle with such embarassingly low numbers in lineup any longer than necessary. I cringe everytime I look at MKT sales numbers.

[NickF1011]

Replace it with a Lincoln version of the Explorer and be done with this failure.

 

Replace your slow-selling D3-based CUV with another D3-based CUV!! That'll cure its ills!

 

 

Wait, what?

[Kev-Mo]

On a side note: I've yet to actually see a Fiesta on the streets.

 

 

I have seen one here in the South Denver Metro Area, where imports are king - It was that bright lime green color -really stood out and looked quite nice!

[FordBuyer]

Replace your slow-selling D3-based CUV with another D3-based CUV!! That'll cure its ills!

 

 

Wait, what?

 

Why is the MKT a failure? First off, the front and rear are ugly. Second, the fuel mileage is mediocre, and third, third row seating is pinched. The new Explorer will be better looking, have better fuel mileage, and be more capable in most every way the MKT is not. Since Ford is promoting the Explorer as an SUV, and the MKT is a CUV, you have according to Ford two very different vehicles. You don't believe Ford you say? In my view, the Explorer improves on the Flex and MKT and makes both redundant failures. A new Explorer based Lincoln can replace both the MKT and Navigator. Then Ford can start work on a RWD sedan and small SUV based off the Kuga. Cut your losses as Ford usually does and get on with good use of global platforms. I believe the new Explorer will be exported. The Flex and MKT are too bloated to be exported.

[TomServo92]

Replace your slow-selling D3-based CUV with another D3-based CUV!! That'll cure its ills!

 

 

Wait, what?

 

Another "brilliant" suggestion by FordBuyer!

[NickF1011]

Why is the MKT a failure? First off, the front and rear are ugly.

 

Won't disagree there.

 

Second, the fuel mileage is mediocre,

 

We've been over this before....ad nauseum. There's no reason to expect that the Flex and MKT fuel economy won't improve even beyond what the Explorer manages with its next refresh.

 

and third, third row seating is pinched.

 

From what I understand, 3rd row room in the Flex/MKT is similar to that in the Explorer. :shrug:

 

The new Explorer will be better looking,

 

Since no future Lincolns will be sharing sheet metal with a Ford (and the MKT already doesn't) this point is entirely moot.

 

A new Explorer based Lincoln can replace both the MKT and Navigator.

 

Sounds like a terrible idea to me.

[Kev-Mo]

You guys need to give it up. I doubt very much if Ford went to the trouble and expense of building a vehicle called the MKT to sell only 600/month. If they had known that, they would have never built it. That super low number means you will hardly see them on the street, and that they will sit on dealer lots way too long. Lincoln is not Ferrari. It's not like WOW! there goes an MKT as your heartbeat goes up. It's not that kind of vehicle. On the other hand, seeing a Ferrari go down the road gets your attention as so few are built and sold. I don't know Ford's internal sales projections on the MKT, but they were not 600/month which seems to be its selling rate long term at best. Even the frickin Town Car outsells the MKT. The MKT has failure written all over it. We are not helping Ford by putting lipstick on this pig. I'm not saying get rid of it right away, but please Ford put no more money into it. Replace it with a Lincoln version of the Explorer and be done with this failure. Having the slow selling Flex in the lineup is enough for now...don't need this vehicle with such embarassingly low numbers in lineup any longer than necessary. I cringe everytime I look at MKT sales numbers.

 

 

Lexus GX 1227

Lexus LX 379

 

MKT seems like it is in the game @ 600 when put in perspective with others

[NickF1011]

Lexus GX 1227

Lexus LX 379

 

MKT seems like it is in the game @ 600 when put in perspective with others

 

Stop that. Facts mean nothing in this argument. We all know all luxury vehicles, regardless of ATP, should sell in the tens of thousands every month.

[BrewfanGRB]

Stop that. Facts mean nothing in this argument. We all know all luxury vehicles, regardless of ATP, should sell in the tens of thousands every month.

 

I've stopped trying, frankly. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I honestly believe FordBuyer simply isn't smart enough to understand this. He sees an absolute number and says "failure!". I am quite certain Ford knows better than ANYONE on this board what it's doing. We might not agree, but that's not Ford's problem.

[rmc523]

Lincoln is not Ferrari. It's not like WOW! there goes an MKT as your heartbeat goes up. It's not that kind of vehicle. On the other hand, seeing a Ferrari go down the road gets your attention as so few are built and sold.

 

Actually, an MKT gets my attention more than a Ferrari....those are everywhere, MKTs are less common. The only Ferraris that get my attention are the newest models I'm seeing on the road for the first time, otherwise I'm just like 'oh it's another Ferrari." LOL

 

Second, the fuel mileage is mediocre, and third, third row seating is pinched. The new Explorer will be better looking, have better fuel mileage, and be more capable in most every way the MKT is not.

 

As many have tried to explain to you: 1) the MKT is right in line with, if not better than, the mileage of vehicles in it's class!!!!! 2) Why would I not believe platform/mileage improvements given to the Explorer will not be transferred to the MKT/Flex, resulting in better mileage?

 

From what I understand, 3rd row room in the Flex/MKT is similar to that in the Explorer. :shrug:

 

Yeah, Flex and Explorer 3rd row room is about the same. The issue with the MKT is headroom (or lack thereof) - because of the sloping exterior roof design, headroom is severely sacrificed to where your head is touching the ceiling (I'm about 6'0" and my head touched the ceiling when back there).

[FordBuyer]

I've stopped trying, frankly. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I honestly believe FordBuyer simply isn't smart enough to understand this. He sees an absolute number and says "failure!". I am quite certain Ford knows better than ANYONE on this board what it's doing. We might not agree, but that's not Ford's problem.

 

Obviously, I'm smarter than you when it comes to MKT sales and customer reaction to it. No one is buying it save for very few. And its sales are falling as the months pass. It started at around 700 and is dropping. And don't get carried away by Ford either. They have been close to bankruptcy more than a few times and needed almost miracles to survive. In other words, Ford has made more than a few mistakes over the years. I will be shocked if the MKT in present form is around in next few years. It may or may not be called an MKT, but it won't resemble this present one. Ford has ended vehicles before that sold much better than this one, and were not cheaply priced. I wouldn't label the MKT a "ripoff" vehicle like the MKZ and Versailles decades before it, but it's one of Ford's uglier vehicles as it looks like bloated baleen whale. If the MKT was great looking, I would think 2,000+/month would be likely, but alas it's not good looking and many are obviously not buying it that could. Other than the MKX, it's really back to square one in turning around Lincoln short or long term. Until Ford starts revealing new Lincolns, I don't see any help on the horizon. The Town Car will be gone very shortly, and it's one of Lincoln's best selling vehicles. I know it's a fleet queen, but it's included in sales figures as is the Navigator, another vehicle not going to be around much longer in present form.

[FordBuyer]

Actually, an MKT gets my attention more than a Ferrari....those are everywhere, MKTs are less common. The only Ferraris that get my attention are the newest models I'm seeing on the road for the first time, otherwise I'm just like 'oh it's another Ferrari." LOL

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LOL!!!!!!! Youn know, you probably are right that even Ferrari sells more $200,000 models than Lincoln sells MKTs. I probably see more Porsche Boxster R's than I do MKTs. "Look Ma...there goes that baleen whale down the road that I haven't seen in ages." Kind of like seeing an AMC Gremlin or Pacer. On a positive note, the MKT should turn into a nice, obscure collector car like the past Thunderbird that was around for about three years. At least in its first year it sold out and dealers market it up over sticker price.

[NickF1011]

Obviously, I'm smarter than you when it comes to MKT sales and customer reaction to it. No one is buying it save for very few. And its sales are falling as the months pass. It started at around 700 and is dropping.

 

 

Here's its sales month-by-month:

 

Sep 2009 - 455

Oct 2009 - 619

Nov 2009 - 648

Dec 2010 - 858

Jan 2010 - 715

Feb 2010 - 647

Mar 2010 - 744

Apr 2010 - 625

May 2010 - 709

Jun 2010 - 520

Jul 2010 - 606

Aug 2010 - 609

 

Average: 646

 

Man, that MKT's sales are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down. :lol:

 

That's about 5% less than their monthly average. In other words, the MKT outperformed the rest of Ford's lineup for the month.

 

I will be shocked if the MKT in present form is around in next few years.

 

So will I, being as it's due for a refresh in probably about 18-24 months.

 

If the MKT was great looking, I would think 2,000+/month would be likel

 

What do you base this on? Anything? Or does 2000 just sound like a "good number" to you?

 

as is the Navigator, another vehicle not going to be around much longer in present form.

 

You know this how? Was it in the same documents you found that said 2000 sales were a "good number"? Again though, yes, it and the Expedition are soon due for makeovers, so of course it won't be entirely the same. Will it remain a fullsize BOF SUV? I'm guessing yes.

Edited September 2, 2010 by NickF1011

[atomcat68]

If you check the dealer inventory around where I live, it usually shows each dealer with 3-4 Fiestas. Drive down to take a look see, and they don;t have them on the lot,

The dealer posts the stock number of the cars at least 3 weeks before they arrive on the lot. Those will be there soon.

[FordBuyer]

Here's its sales month-by-month:

 

Sep 2009 - 455

Oct 2009 - 619

Nov 2009 - 648

Dec 2010 - 858

Jan 2010 - 715

Feb 2010 - 647

Mar 2010 - 744

Apr 2010 - 625

May 2010 - 709

Jun 2010 - 520

Jul 2010 - 606

Aug 2010 - 609

 

Average: 646

 

Man, that MKT's sales are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down. :lol:

 

That's about 5% less than their monthly average. In other words, the MKT outperformed the rest of Ford's lineup for the month.

 

 

 

So will I, being as it's due for a refresh in probably about 18-24 months.

 

 

 

What do you base this on? Anything? Or does 2000 just sound like a "good number" to you?

 

 

 

You know this how? Was it in the same documents you found that said 2000 sales were a "good number"? Again though, yes, it and the Expedition are soon due for makeovers, so of course it won't be entirely the same. Will it remain a fullsize BOF SUV? I'm guessing yes.

 

If the MKT is selling so well, then why do Lincoln dealers have a severe oversupply of them? 60 days is supposed to be normal, and MKT inventory is like three times that. Obviously AGAIN, the MKT is not selling to expectations. What don't you understand about that? Ford is not going to keep around a vehicle long that doesn't sell. Ford will need to do incentives to reduce that inventory. If MKT inventory was in line with popular Ford models, you would have a point, But that is not the case. There is no demand for the vehicle.

[NickF1011]

If the MKT is selling so well, then why do Lincoln dealers have a severe oversupply of them? 60 days is supposed to be normal, and MKT inventory is like three times that. Obviously AGAIN, the MKT is not selling to expectations. What don't you understand about that? Ford is not going to keep around a vehicle long that doesn't sell. Ford will need to do incentives to reduce that inventory. If MKT inventory was in line with popular Ford models, you would have a point, But that is not the case. There is no demand for the vehicle.

 

1. 60 isn't normal. 60 is IDEAL. Big difference.

2. The days supply number you are referencing is at least a couple of months old now.

3. Yes, it should be selling better, but only slightly better. If it was selling at your magical proposed 2000 units a month, there would be a severe shortage of them.

4. If there was NO demand for the vehicle, they would be selling 0 of them a month.

5. You nor I still have any idea if Ford is making money on it or not.

6. Until one of us knows the answer to #5 your continued whining about it won't matter.

7. No matter how shitty the MKT sells, Ford isn't going to bring back Mercury.

[akirby]

If the MKT is selling so well, then why do Lincoln dealers have a severe oversupply of them? 60 days is supposed to be normal, and MKT inventory is like three times that. Obviously AGAIN, the MKT is not selling to expectations. What don't you understand about that? Ford is not going to keep around a vehicle long that doesn't sell. Ford will need to do incentives to reduce that inventory. If MKT inventory was in line with popular Ford models, you would have a point, But that is not the case. There is no demand for the vehicle.

 

Who said they were selling "well"? Nobody said that. You're the one that pulled that 2000 number out of your butt. The market leader Lexus GX only sells 1300/month. There is no way Ford expected to sell 50% more than the market leader right out of the gate. And 60 days isn't "normal" - it's very good. 90-120 is more "normal".

 

There is a big difference between doing OK and "about to be cancelled". Also - assuming Ford has bigger plans for the next version it would be stupid to kill it now then bring it back in another year.

 

Now where's my bucket of rocks picture............

[rmc523]

LOL!!!!!!! Youn know, you probably are right that even Ferrari sells more $200,000 models than Lincoln sells MKTs.

 

My point was Ferraris are every other car down here.....

 

What do you base this on? Anything? Or does 2000 just sound like a "good number" to you?

 

The same place this guy:

 

 

got this rabbit....

Edited September 2, 2010 by rmc523

[TomServo92]

Obviously, I'm smarter than you when it comes to MKT sales and customer reaction to it. No one is buying it save for very few. And its sales are falling as the months pass. It started at around 700 and is dropping.

 

 

Here's its sales month-by-month:

 

Sep 2009 - 455

Oct 2009 - 619

Nov 2009 - 648

Dec 2010 - 858

Jan 2010 - 715

Feb 2010 - 647

Mar 2010 - 744

Apr 2010 - 625

May 2010 - 709

Jun 2010 - 520

Jul 2010 - 606

Aug 2010 - 609

 

Average: 646

 

Man, that MKT's sales are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down. :lol:

 

That's about 5% less than their monthly average. In other words, the MKT outperformed the rest of Ford's lineup for the month.

 

I believe that constitutes a forum BITCH SLAP! Give it up Fordbuyer. You've been owned some many times on this forum it's becoming pathetic.

[ausrutherford]

If the MKT is selling so well, then why do Lincoln dealers have a severe oversupply of them? 60 days is supposed to be normal, and MKT inventory is like three times that. Obviously AGAIN, the MKT is not selling to expectations. What don't you understand about that? Ford is not going to keep around a vehicle long that doesn't sell. Ford will need to do incentives to reduce that inventory. If MKT inventory was in line with popular Ford models, you would have a point, But that is not the case. There is no demand for the vehicle.

 

Ford only planned on selling 12,000 a year. Sure they may be selling slightly below that number, but the transaction prices are much more than expected.