01FOCI Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/21/auto-union-looks-recover-concessions-ford-contract-talks/?test=latestnews Ford still has a lot of debt and a as yet to be seen turn around plan for Lincoln. I'm just saying this sounds about as good for Ford as $6 gas would be for the economy right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Johnson, who represents workers at a Ford plant in Wayne, Mich., told the Detroit Free Press that if Ford does not restore "everything" to the union, "the membership is going to knock it down." Here is the number 1 reason why most American's dislike unions.... I just hope for Ford and UAW's that the people who are actually doing the negitions aren't as big of a blockhead as this guy. If anything, I agree that Ford should do some givebacks, but at the same time have those give back tied to how well (or not) the company is doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/21/auto-union-looks-recover-concessions-ford-contract-talks/?test=latestnews Ford still has a lot of debt and a as yet to be seen turn around plan for Lincoln. I'm just saying this sounds about as good for Ford as $6 gas would be for the economy right now. Now I really wish gas price can go up to $8 to $10 per gallon or even higher so that we can really understand what means"we are not out of woods yet". Before we can secure our job, any benefit is just temporary. How to secure the job, be competitive. If our folks in Toyota plant in Southern United state can live with $51 per hour, why UAW members can not do so? God create everyone equal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 The company isn't out of the woods yet. In fact GM and Chrysler got better bargaining deals from their UAW workers than Ford did, so personally I would shut up and move on. You would think that considering whats happening in Wisconsin, they would remain a bit complacent and quiet with that example. I can't tell you anyone i know feels sorry for any of those union workers requesting concessions when they themselves have lost their jobs and can't find any in the private sector. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 What the union workers fail to acknowledge is that the market has changed and the wages and benefits that they received in the past are not necessarily warranted in the new market environment. Nobody wants to lose wages or benefits but that's what happens when the market changes. And it's something the entire rest of the workforce has had to deal with for decades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I think they can get it all back... but it's going to come via profit-sharing, not base wages, pensions or health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 "Companies don't like COLA," Schwartz said. "You can't plan for it. Economists don't always get the inflation rate right." Indeed, Ford should vehemently oppose restoration and/or continuation of COLA. This is something that doesn't belong in a 21st century labor contract at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 1 - The article doesn't mention the $5k bonuses UAW workers are getting. Not once. 2 - Opposing COLA is stupid. Why erode your employees' purchasing power? You breed dissatisfaction by expecting employees to do the same work for effectively less money every year. Wages that do not keep pace with inflation are tantamount to pay cuts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 And why is health care being discussed? I thought VEBA and all that garbage put health care under the unions control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I imagine there are some concessions that can and should be restored. I never liked tiered wage systems, when two people are working the same job title can never under any circumstances earn the same wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 And why is health care being discussed? I thought VEBA and all that garbage put health care under the unions control. I thought that was just retiree health care? Too lazy to look it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 We have to distinguish between what a union leader says to keep the troops happy and what the union negotiating team really expects to get at the bargaining table. As with political parties, union leaders have to tell the faithful that they are going after as much as possible. They realize, however, that they will have to settle for less, but at least they can tell the rank-and-file, "We were fighting for what you wanted." I don't believe that Mr. King really wants to put the Ford Motor Company at a competitive disadvantage with either the transplant operations or GM and Chrysler. Plus, hasn't Ford - of the old Big Three - had the best relationship with the UAW since Henry Ford II took over in the 1940s? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 2 - Opposing COLA is stupid. Why erode your employees' purchasing power? You breed dissatisfaction by expecting employees to do the same work for effectively less money every year. Wages that do not keep pace with inflation are tantamount to pay cuts. I know at the last long term job I had I was only getting COLA increases, which where only 2-3% a year...never once did I get a raise, nor did any other people I worked with, unless it was a position change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 And why is health care being discussed? I thought VEBA and all that garbage put health care under the unions control. Retiree health care is under UAW stewardship, employee health care is under company stewardship I imagine there are some concessions that can and should be restored. I never liked tiered wage systems, when two people are working the same job title can never under any circumstances earn the same wages. IIRC, Ford's structure is that non-assembly labor (e.g. custodial staff) are paid at the lower tier--it's tiered by job description, again, IIRC. I know at the last long term job I had I was only getting COLA increases, which where only 2-3% a year...never once did I get a raise, nor did any other people I worked with, unless it was a position change. I think most assembly jobs are like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 1 - The article doesn't mention the $5k bonuses UAW workers are getting. Not once. 2 - Opposing COLA is stupid. Why erode your employees' purchasing power? You breed dissatisfaction by expecting employees to do the same work for effectively less money every year. Wages that do not keep pace with inflation are tantamount to pay cuts. Social Security has COLA in it and most pension plans have some kind of system that ups the monthly benefit every year. It does cost more to live every year no matter how low inflation is. And Henry Ford understood that his workers needed to make enough to afford the vehicles they built. Ford should give its workers option to choose profit sharing or restoration of COLA and increase in pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I think most assembly jobs are like that. I was working a "white collar" job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Take the article with a grain of salt...it is from Fox "News" after all....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was working a "white collar" job... I know. I was saying that merit pay raises are tough to come by on an assembly line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Well, I don't mind the union wanting SOME of what they had before back. With the company back in the black again, I don't think that it's unreasonable for the union to ask for the following: 1) COLA 2) a bit of easing of the health insurance concessions from before. Not complete, but a little. 3) an established profit sharing plan that outlines a portion of net profits to be subdivided among the employees. I won't venture to suggest an appropriate percentage as I am not knowledgeable enough about Ford's books to suggest a good number. Things that should not be given back under any circumstances: 1) JOBS bank or whatever Ford's equivalent was. That's my OPINION about what I think should be negotiated for. I can't know all the intricate details, but, those items seem more than fair as a reward for helping the company get through their tough times. I want Ford to still be as flexible as possible to balance production with demand. Ford is producing vehicles that are competitive or better in almost every market. That used to be one of the greatest criticism of the union rank and file. That has been resolved. Their criticism of the compensation of upper management will never be resolved due to larger social issues and the overall business climate in the US. You want top executives, you have to compensate them. You don't get them, and you get what happened to other companies in this recession. If you want a peice of that pie, go back to school, get your MBA, and work your way up the executive ladder like many of corporate america's executives did. For the moment, this is still a mostly free country and that's still technically possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Concessions? Bargaining? Hm I dont know but personally, 2 weeks paid vacation, 10 paid sick days, you contribute to your own 401K, and figure out your healthcare, or possible group policy. Thats what most jobs start out as. Dont like it? its a free country, go work elsewhere. Hire others that do need a job and are willing to do it for the going rate. Never understood what this "bargaining", is for. I dont "bargain" with my sub contractors when putting out work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 its a free country Yeah. Ford doesn't *have* to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Retiree health care is under UAW stewardship, employee health care is under company stewardship IIRC, Ford's structure is that non-assembly labor (e.g. custodial staff) are paid at the lower tier--it's tiered by job description, again, IIRC. Ford's second tier is for people working the line just like tier 1. You have two people working side by side doing the same job for different pay rates. Custodial is now sub contracted out entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 You have one guy who has been there for a while, with a higher rate of pay, and a new guy that is tickled silly to have a job with benefits. Frankly, I think the ones complaining the most, are the veteran UAW workers. Of course, I don't think Ford has hired many Tier 2 employees yet. Another thing they didn't do, is stick it to the Focus plant workers, like GM did with Lordstown. However, it may just be me, but I wonder how the UAW can negotiate in good faith, when they are partial owners of GM and Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 IIRC, Ford's structure is that non-assembly labor (e.g. custodial staff) are paid at the lower tier--it's tiered by job description, again, IIRC. A two-tiered wage structure for new assembly line employees was part of the 2007 agreement - new hires earn on the order of $15/hour, instead of, what was it, $25/hr? From the sound of things, they're allowing custodial work to be outsourced altogether. That's about all I know and probably at least partly wrong, but that's the gist as I remember it (and briefly looked from various sources). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DearbornDerek Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Its funny and stupid to see these topics pop up every four years.... You have the anti-union people posting their hate for the the UAW and the workers. Then you have the extreme pro-union people posting that we are going to get x, y, and z or else. The funny thing is, every contract has just been a rehash of the previous one. We MIGHT get a few things back (COLA, x-mas bonus) but for the most part its going to be exactly what we have now with a few minor tweaks (work rule changes in exchange for COLA, bonus) So all of you fight and piss each other off all you want....I got tired of these topics a long time ago.....I'm going to go to work every day like I do now and MIND MY OWN BUSINESS....Later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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