Ford's Labor Costs Rising

[FordBuyer]

According to Bloomberg Report today:

 

>>Ford Motor Co. (F), set to enter contract talks with the United Auto Workers, said its U.S. labor costs are now $8 an hour higher than the mostly nonunion U.S. factories of foreign automakers such as Hyundai Motor Co. (005380)

 

Ford, on a website it posted last month, said it pays about $58 an hour in wages and benefits to its 40,600 U.S. hourly workers, $3 more than the automaker said last year. Labor costs average $50 an hour at the U.S. plants of international automakers such as Japan’s Toyota Motor Corp. (7203) and South Korea’s Hyundai, according to Ford.<<

 

Now $2 of that came from profit sharing so Ford in actuality is $6/hour higher than nonunion plants. I have a feeling the UAW doesn't want to hear it and wants a raise with Ford making record profits. Going to be tough negotiations coming up with Bob King under pressure to appease the rank and file and at same time keep the peace with Ford Brass.

[jpd80]

A strategy of information ahead of UAW negotiations?

Let people know the situation according to Ford before the UAW sets foot in the negotiations....

It also sounds like the UAW is stepping away from pattern bargaining, could it be that previous

negotiations with Ford,GM and Chrysler has effectively uncoupled any parity between the three?

[Pioneer]

1. The CEO got a raise, and so shall we.

 

2. White collar got concessions back, and so shall we (some of them, not all).

 

3. Ford doesn't have any second tier workers. When they start hiring them, Ford will actually be at an advantage per labor hour.

 

4. If Ford wants us to have Transplant pay, so shall white collar, including the CEO.

 

5. I can see this thread being locked real soon.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Pioneer

[Deanh]

1. The CEO got a raise, and so shall we.

 

2. White collar got concessions back, and so shall we (some of them, not all).

 

3. Ford doesn't have any second tier workers. When they start hiring them, Ford will actually be at an advantage per labor hour.

 

4. If Ford wants us to have Transplant pay, so shall white collar, including the CEO.

 

5. I can see this thread being locked real soon.

I just hope there becomes a happy medium between both parties, because lets face it if theres a Mexican standoff NO-ONE wins.....so lets hope common sense prevails....oh, and a pat on the back to the workers, Ford fit finish as of late has been excellent, you guys are doing outstanding work....

Edited May 6, 2011 by Deanh

[Moosetang]

Both sides have good points to make, and like all negotiations there will be a back-and-forth. Working in everyone's favor is that King and Ford have appeared to get along in the past, I hope they continue a good relationship together.

[92merc]

If the UAW plays too hardball in their tactics, I can see Ford Transits and more products going to the land of Espaniol...

[FordBuyer]

If the UAW plays too hardball in their tactics, I can see Ford Transits and more products going to the land of Espaniol...

 

You can bet that Ford will use plant usage as a bargaining chip in negotiations. Notice that Ford has not yet announced what is going into KCAP once Escape leaves if anything. I'm sure Ford will remind UAW of that....if you want new product in that plant and JOBS, play ball with us. If you don't, nothing will go in there. Bargaining will be all about jobs as it should be, and you can bet Ford will keep reminding UAW of $8 pay difference. Even if Ford hires new workers at Tier 2 wages, Ford still has 40,000 workers making Tier 1 wages. I sure hope also that middle ground can be found and more Ford jobs come to the states. Ford is a growing company now and Americans need good paying jobs.

[jpd80]

1. The CEO got a raise, and so shall we.

 

2. White collar got concessions back, and so shall we (some of them, not all).

 

3. Ford doesn't have any second tier workers. When they start hiring them, Ford will actually be at an advantage per labor hour.

 

4. If Ford wants us to have Transplant pay, so shall white collar, including the CEO.

 

5. I can see this thread being locked real soon.

1. I hope it's more than COLA

 

2. That is only fair

 

3. Good point, when Ford talks about hiring more workers they will be on Tier 2

I would rather see Tier 2 graduated up to Tier 1 for employees with 10 years service.

Doing that would take the sting out of Tier 2 but also give new employees a goal to work for.

 

4. With so much downsizing and efficiency gained throughout FNA, wages are not the burden they used to be so surely Ford can give some ground here for peace and stability. Maybe more incentives and bonuses if plants are going to be worked harder.

 

5. Not necessarily, so long as people are open to the possibility that Ford and UAW can achieve an amicable contract. I don't see either party waging anything like open war...

Edited May 6, 2011 by jpd80

[Footballfan]

I'm suprised at this considering Ford doubled their capcity in Mexico while closing all those plants in the US and Canada. Ford is the only one of the Big Thre to make their best-selling car in Mexico. Even the transplants build their best selling cars in the United States.

[jpd80]

I'm suprised at this considering Ford doubled their capcity in Mexico while closing all those plants in the US and Canada. Ford is the only one of the Big Thre to make their best-selling car in Mexico. Even the transplants build their best selling cars in the United States.

 

Which vehicles are made in Mexico?

Fiesta and Focus MKZ - roughly 35,000 units/month.

 

Which vehicles are Made in Canada?

Edge, MKX, Flex, MKT and E-Series - around 25,000 units/month

 

If Ford averages 160,000 to 180,000 sales a month then it stands to reason

that the bulk of production is in the USA - 100,000 to 120,000 units per month

Edited May 7, 2011 by jpd80

[mettech]

Wonder where Ford's CEO pay and benefits are rated companied to the top 500 CEO's in the USA?

 

And I wonder where the Ford's UAW non-skilled members pay and benefits are rated compared to the same companies?

 

 

And why would this tread be closed if only quantitative data is posted with no name calling?

 

 

There is a third party that is affected by the contracts too... It's the stock holders don't forget..

 

 

 

 

[Pioneer]

There is a third party that is affected by the contracts too... It's the stock holders don't forget..

 

I'm two out of three, so I guess my opinion counts twice as much.

 

 

And I wonder where the Ford's UAW non-skilled members pay and benefits are rated compared to the same companies?

 

I wonder if the U.S. military pay is the same as the pay for, say, Iraq's military personnel. I say we lower your pay to match theirs.

[Pioneer]

Which vehicles are made in Mexico?

Fiesta and Focus MKZ - roughly 35,000 units/month.

 

Which vehicles are Made in Canada?

Edge, MKX, Flex, MKT and E-Series - around 25,000 units/month

 

If Ford averages 160,000 to 180,000 sales a month then it stands to reason

that the bulk of production is in the USA - 100,000 to 120,000 units per month

 

 

Focus is made in the U.S.. I think you meant the Fusion.

 

And the E-series is made in Avon Lake, Ohio.

[mettech]

I'm two out of three, so I guess my opinion counts twice as much.

 

I wonder if the U.S. military pay is the same as the pay for, say, Iraq's military personnel. I say we lower your pay to match theirs.

 

"...I'm two out of three, so I guess my opinion counts twice as much..."

 

As long as you can separate a natural bias of one role from the other I would agree.

 

"...I wonder if the U.S. military pay is the same as the pay for, say, Iraq's military personnel. I say we lower your pay to match theirs.."

 

I was comparing "non-skilled" workers only. A skilled UAW member is completely different and should be compensated with premium .

 

Besides, I don't ever remember negotiating my pay and benefits, or threating my employers (USA government/) of striking if my demands are not satisfied.

 

In fact, I would be jailed if I would make demands like the UAW does.

[twmalonehunter]

I'm two out of three, so I guess my opinion counts twice as much.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if the U.S. military pay is the same as the pay for, say, Iraq's military personnel. I say we lower your pay to match theirs.

 

 

Pioneer, I have no idea what it is you do for Ford, nor how valuable you are. I gather from your posts that you are not an assembly line worker, that you are involved in assembly line equipment repair, so I would probably classify you as a skilled worker, more essential than the average assembler. Maybe your particular skillset makes you worth an equivalent of $58/hour in wages and benefits, IDK.

 

What rubs a lot of people on the outside is the fact that a guy that spends his entire day bolting seats into a new car could be griping about ":only" making $58/hr or whatever it actually is that he/she is being paid. A job that virtually any motivated adult could be easily taught to do. In this country, in this economy, where there is an "actual" unemployment rate of near 19%, maybe it's time you guys just be happy that Ford is doing well, and you all have job security at the moment. It's not about what you used to have, it's what you have now. Why do you in particular have to speak in ultimatums and absolutes about stikes and bringing down the company to get your way. Worry about working conditions and safety and most of us are on your side, but I have a hard time believing that the general public is gonna feel at all sorry for you for how much money you feel like your not being paid.

 

As a fairly large shareholder, I am very interested in seeing the two sides come to a mutually beneficial compromise. But I can guarantee you this, Mulally will not allow Ford to be held hostage by the UAW, and if they play hardball, he will and should move product assembly elsewhere. It's a proven fact the American consumer doesn't care really where a car is assembled, i.e. Fusion sales.

 

Oh and BTW, I would argue that the U.S. military does a job that is infinitely more important than any job a UAW worker does, or ANY Ford employee for that matter, so you should leave them out of your argument!

Edited May 7, 2011 by twmalonehunter

[Noah Harbinger]

1. The CEO got a raise, and so shall we.

 

Huh? I didn't hear about that.

 

Oh wait. You're talking about stock options. Because you're an idiot.

[mettech]

Help Wanted on Factory Floor

 

"...U.S. manufacturing companies, long known for layoffs and shipping jobs overseas, now find themselves in a very different position: scrambling for scarce talent at home.Large and small manufacturers of everything from machine tools to chemicals are scouring for potential hires in high schools, community colleges and the military. They are poaching from one another, retraining people who used to have white-collar jobs, and in some cases even hiring former prisoners who learned machinist skills behind bars...."

 

 

[RichardJensen]

making $58/hr

Yeah, but he's not. That's Ford's cost.

[blazerdude20]

not counting benefits, just actual income pay. what does a seasoned, say 10 year, autoworker make per hour? I've heard 28 but not sure on that. i wonder if the two tier system could take root here. when starting out you make say $14 an hour, then after 6 months you get bumped up to $16, etc. after a couple years you hit journeyman pay (28 or what ever it is).

 

not sure if this system is already in place but it has worked pretty well for other unions (ufcw).

 

to me personally, i don't care what a worker makes as long as they can put food on the table and the company is healthy enough to pay it.

[Maislebandit]

 

What rubs a lot of people on the outside is the fact that a guy that spends his entire day bolting seats into a new car could be griping about ":only" making $58/hr or whatever it actually is that he/she is being paid. A job that virtually any motivated adult could be easily taught to do.

 

The dollar amount indicated is a package amount (benefits, legacy(retiree costs) etc.).

 

I might agree that an able bodied person could be easily taught to perform many jobs on the line. The question is can they do it day in and day out? Back when they hired at full rate, there was always a certain turnover rate.

 

From an outside perspective, it is easy to say "who cannot turn a bolt?" Until you have walked a mile in those shoes however......................................

[Extreme4x4]

The problem isn't how many people can do it day in and day out......................... because most could if they wanted to. The problem is that people want the pay without the work.

 

There is a certain contingent of workers who are always looking for a job. They are doing this, because the job they want, does not exist. You know, the job with a 30-60 minute work period in the middle of the day, and 2 additional 15-minute work periods........... one in the morning, and one in the afternoon. The rest of the time would be break period.

 

This happens to any job that has any type "work," be it phyiscal or mental.

 

What someones work is worth is directly proportional to how many people "could" or are "qualified" to do it. As the vast majority of the population is qualified, or could do factory work, means that those jobs are less "valuable." Of course, this has to do with starting wage. Anyone who proves that they are above and beyond the average employee should reap the benefits of said dedication.

 

The vast majority of the population is neither qualified, nor could they do, nor have they proven they could be successful at being the CEO.

 

Frankly, I'm getting real sick of CEO pay being held up as the reason that riches and benies should be showered upon the UAW workers. Fine, cut hs Salary down to $500K (remember that his salary is $2 million). Then 40,000 UAW workers can split up the difference. I'm sure you will all go crazy trying to figure out how to spend your windfall of $37.50 (before taxes). BTW, the $26 million in stock options that some UAW workers are so up in arms about, would net the UAW workers $650 before taxes. Somehow I think your $5000 looks alot better than that. However, I would bet that if you told Ford that the UAW workers want their Mulally money instead, that they will be happy to take back your $5000 check, and replace it with a $650 one.

 

I swear that some people can't see the forest, for the trees, if their life depended on it.

[Noah Harbinger]

However, I would bet that if you told Ford that the UAW workers want their Mulally money instead, that they will be happy to take back your $5000 check, and replace it with a $650 one.

 

Just wanted to highlight that line

[DearbornDerek]

5. Not necessarily, so long as people are open to the possibility that Ford and UAW can achieve an amicable contract. I don't see either party waging anything like open war...

 

I love your optimism, I really do. But we have both been here long enough to know when it gets to contract time posts like this are bound to incite war between the workers here and the members who love our vehicles but HATE the uaw. It's one of the reasons I don't post as much here anymore....That and ALL the stupid crap in the employee section.

...But we can hope right???

[F250]

Oh just cut to the chase and move all production to foreign countries that have no worker protection (or human rights) no enviromental protection or any of those pesky and expensive things that cut into gross profit. Keep DTP as a token, maybe make it an extended part of the Henry Ford Museum tour (just to show our children Americans used to build vehicles) and move everything else to China and Mexico.

 

Examples: Shipbuilding, after WW2 the US was building the best commercial ships in the world but today US owned supertankers are built in Asia and flagged in Panama. US owned cruise ships are built largely in Europe and Flagged in Panama. American shipbuilding has been reduced to mostly just military.

 

Electronics, how many RCA or Philco employees of our fathers time thought doing a good job building high quality products was enough to keep employment that paid a living wage in the US? Suckers.

[jpd80]

I love your optimism, I really do. But we have both been here long enough to know when it gets to contract time posts like this are bound to incite war between the workers here and the members who love our vehicles but HATE the uaw. It's one of the reasons I don't post as much here anymore....That and ALL the stupid crap in the employee section.

...But we can hope right???

Thanks Derek,

I remain optimistic because we have all seen the way both sides have worked through tough times in the last negotiations. Making vehicles is really a cash cow if done half right, look at Ford and you see that yes, they have tough pragmatic ways but also are still paying wages and benefits above transplant companies and still making record pace on profitability and debt reduction.

 

This makes me believe that in spite of the peanut gallery rhetoric, a workable contract will be hammered out and all parties will walk away reasonably happy...

Edited May 8, 2011 by jpd80