akirby Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Take away the real defect (groundstrap on the Fiesta) and you're left with a handful of complaints from a few owners about the shifting characteristics. Once you explain that this is not a traditional automatic and that in some circumstances it will feel different and it will get better after the first 1K miles - very few (if any) seem to continue to have a concern. Should Ford be concerned? Of course! And they're responding with better customer education. What is the alternative? Yank out the powershift and replace it with a traditional slushbox - lowering both the fuel economy and performance/fun factor? If the powershift did not yield big advantages in performance and fuel economy then I might agree that it's not worth the complaints. As it is I think it's worth a few complaints until people get used to them just like they got used to CVTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 um yes they do....but only one.... Two, actually. Three if you count the Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Two, actually. Three if you count the Lincoln. DOH, forgot about them, damn singular focus....oh, and POSSIBLY a couple more on the horizon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 DOH, forgot about them, damn singular focus....oh, and POSSIBLY a couple more on the horizon..... If that's the case, I hope the CVT-equipped cars are all hybrids. RE: the Powershift, got any idea as to inclusion of SelectShift on the Fiesta in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 As it is I think it's worth a few complaints until people get used to them just like they got used to CVTs. Yeah, people don't seem to complain about the CVT in the 2008+ Taurus. Wait.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Yeah, people don't seem to complain about the CVT in the 2008+ Taurus. Wait.... Was it dropped due to customer complaints? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 If that's the case, I hope the CVT-equipped cars are all hybrids. RE: the Powershift, got any idea as to inclusion of SelectShift on the Fiesta in the future? Bingo....and no idea on the Select shift...I think Ford isnt trying to go crazy on MSRP's.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Was it dropped due to customer complaints? it was more exspensive to produce/ replace and the mileage was WORSE than the regular 6 speed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The Chevy Cruze is universally panned as having an AWFUL auto trans. It is branded as one of the worst in the segment and industry, and has been completely slammed in all comparisons. Should GM yank the auto trans due to its poor shifting/mapping?? The Cruze is a huge success for GM, and the vast majority sold are of the auto variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The Chevy Cruze is universally panned as having an AWFUL auto trans. It is branded as one of the worst in the segment and industry, and has been completely slammed in all comparisons. Should GM yank the auto trans due to its poor shifting/mapping?? The Cruze is a huge success for GM, and the vast majority sold are of the auto variety. Oddly enough, the common thread between the two transmissions is the adaptive shift logic. Even more oddly, GM has used that same transmission since 2008 with the Malibu. Seems like they programmed it differently for the Cruze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The Chevy Cruze is universally panned as having an AWFUL auto trans. It is branded as one of the worst in the segment and industry, and has been completely slammed in all comparisons. Should GM yank the auto trans due to its poor shifting/mapping?? Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 it was more exspensive to produce/ replace and the mileage was WORSE than the regular 6 speed... Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Exactly. I will say this though, and its NOT what i consider a good thing, i have a client whose Escape Hybrid was involved in an accident, apparently the transmission ( CVT ) was damaged and couldnt be repaired....the insurance company had issues covering it due to cost......must find out what ahppened... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focusing Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 But if there is a problem with the software for this tranny, wouldn't Ford be able to fix it with an update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I will say this though, and its NOT what i consider a good thing, i have a client whose Escape Hybrid was involved in an accident, apparently the transmission ( CVT ) was damaged and couldnt be repaired....the insurance company had issues covering it due to cost......must find out what ahppened... Well I don't think they can get away from using a CVT in a hybrid application...due the nature of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) Well I don't think they can get away from using a CVT in a hybrid application...due the nature of it? It's doable. Infiniti M35h uses the normal 7AT, and the Honda CR-Z, crappy as it is, offers a manual., Edited July 17, 2011 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 It's doable. Infiniti M35h uses the normal 7AT, and the Honda CR-Z, crappy as it is, offers a manual., Aren't they both mild hybrids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Aren't they both mild hybrids? Now that you mention it, the CR-Z is only a mild hybrid. But the Infiniti can indeed run on electric alone, like most full hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Now that you mention it, the CR-Z is only a mild hybrid. But the Infiniti can indeed run on electric alone, like most full hybrids. Maybe I should say that it looks like a Series Hybrid to me - although they found an odd way to go about it to allow, as you note, full EV mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Maybe I should say that it looks like a Series Hybrid to me - although they found an odd way to go about it to allow, as you note, full EV mode. It's a parallel hybrid. According to this website, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forsche Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Simple solution for the Getrag Powershift tranny. Ask these people who are complaining if they like the gas mileage on the new focus. Then tell them that the transmission is an integral part of getting them their gas mileage. If they don't like it they should shut up. Sure the tranny "hunt's" but it is always looking to lower the rpms. It is completely understandable. They just need to accept it and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 It's a parallel hybrid. According to this website, anyway. Well heck, I don't know my terms then. My point is that they use a regular transmission because the entire hybrid setup is completely different than how Ford and Toyota have done it (and it looks to me more similar to a Honda-esque mild hybrid - maybe my next stab at categorizing their effort is to say they have a mild-hybrid setup with full hybrid capabilities?) - it wouldn't be some minor tweak to use a standard transmission in Ford's hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Well heck, I don't know my terms then. My point is that they use a regular transmission because the entire hybrid setup is completely different than how Ford and Toyota have done it (and it looks to me more similar to a Honda-esque mild hybrid - maybe my next stab at categorizing their effort is to say they have a mild-hybrid setup with full hybrid capabilities?) - it wouldn't be some minor tweak to use a standard transmission in Ford's hybrids. Duly noted and point taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) For certain, I am the only one around here that can say I drove a Ford with a DCT over 25 years ago ! It was a one off prototype in an Escort. The goals at that time were lower cost, lighter weight and better efficiency. We failed at all 3 back then. I also worked closely with the Ford engineers who were writing the software for the dry clutch Getrag up until I retired in 2007 and have talked intermittently with them since then. FACT: All DCT installed in North American Ford products use dry clutches and electric motor actuation. The advantages are lighter weight (no extra fluid or pump), lower cost and better efficiency (a pump runs all of the time; electric motor actuators only run for a short time and "borrow" energy from the battery which is replenished by the alternator). Yes, they are limited to lower torque. FACT: All DCT installed in EU Ford products have been wet clutch, hydraulic actuation, although I understand this is changing. If the dealer sales staff did not receive any training on how the customers might perceive differences between a DCT and a traditional automatic, then I think Ford dropped the ball. Edited July 20, 2011 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 My point is that they use a regular transmission because the entire hybrid setup is completely different than how Ford and Toyota have done it/ The CVT used in Ford Five Hundred was what I would call a "traditional" CVT. It uses variable sheaves and a metal "belt" to transfer power between them. This is very similar to the CVT used in most (all?) snowmobiles. The "e-CVT" (also sometimes called an Electric Variable Transmission) works completely different because it main goal is to combine the power output of an electric motor and an internal combustion engine. I have been unable to find any good cut-away diagrams or good textual descriptions of either the Ford or Toyota e-CVT (I believe they are both manufactured by Aisin Seiki and are similar to the HF-20). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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