ANTAUS Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My link Whinny Americans. :banghead: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Whinny Americans. :banghead: It's not just Americans, whinny whinging Aussies are not happy with Fords automatic transmissions, this Aussie is not happy downunder with his BA Fairmont automatic transmission. I don't think it is P-71 moved downunder he has an Aussie accent http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9JaCqipJCc&sns=fb Not a problem for Europeans Fiesta & Focus's, sales are nearly all for manual/clutch stick changers here. No wonder Ford sales are slipping downunder, Ford must be losing a lot of customers like this guy its sad to watch it happen. Ford Australia's customer service look like they have pissed him off big time.. It funny how things change with time l don't know how Ford pass its deign knowledge down from generation to generation, but things seem be a lot worse these days. In the 70's British Leyland gearboxes were total crap they had far to long sticks & finding a gear was a bit hit & miss affair at the best of times. Moving to a Mk1 Escort was life changing experience the transmission was as smooth as silk with very easy to find gears with a short stick. I have only ever found a better more smoother transmissions in a Renaults today. What happens when a transmission designer retires at Ford does the know how go to the grave with him when he dies or leaves the industry or get moved on to design something else? After buying/driving Fords in the 80's onward they became a bit notchey & balky when changing gears in general.. Edited July 13, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) I hesitate to comment because I've never driven one of these transmissions. But I will say that if a large number of consumers are unhappy with their experience, then either you have a flawed product strategy, or flawed technology. If you have to convince the consumer that a problem is actually a feature, then you've done something wrong and the competition will swallow you fast! Edited July 13, 2011 by BORG 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I hesitate to comment because I've never driven one of these transmissions. But I will say that if a large number of consumers are unhappy with their experience, then either you have a flawed product strategy, or flawed technology. If you have to convince the consumer that a problem is actually a feature, then you've done something wrong and the competition will swallow you fast! I see the issue with Powershift Transmission the same way I see Sync...its unfamiliarity with people who have been driving nothing but slushboxes all their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I see the issue with Powershift Transmission the same way I see Sync...its unfamiliarity with people who have been driving nothing but slushboxes all their lives. Bingo. I drove manuals off and on for 20 years and I didn't have a problem with it. Also this snippet pretty much confirms it: The auto maker offers a similar transmission in Europe, but spokesman Richard Truett says Ford has received no complaints from its European customers. It's all about managing expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I hesitate to comment because I've never driven one of these transmissions. But I will say that if a large number of consumers are unhappy with their experience, then either you have a flawed product strategy, or flawed technology. If you have to convince the consumer that a problem is actually a feature, then you've done something wrong and the competition will swallow you fast! I test drove a 2012 Focus a few weeks back with this transmission (fifteen minutes, around town stop-and-go traffic and on the freeway) and it shifted like an ordinary automatic. I knew the car had a dual clutch transmission, and I was truly expecting to feel something different, but I didn't. But ask me again, in August, when my new 2012 Focus comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 If the "experience" is different than what customers are used to, then there's a problem. I'm reading comments about "Clunking"...well traditionally, when you feel/hear clunking, it means you have a shift problem, hence the customer starts to worry and wonder what is wrong. Is "clunking or surging" acceptable? I ask... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) If the "experience" is different than what customers are used to, then there's a problem. Yes but the problem is lack of communication, not the product itself if that's the way it was designed. I'm reading comments about "Clunking"...well traditionally, when you feel/hear clunking, it means you have a shift problem, hence the customer starts to worry and wonder what is wrong. Is "clunking or surging" acceptable? I ask... For this type of transmission - yes, in exchange for better fuel economy. It's not that much different than an automatic owner moving to a manual transmission. You need to explain how the technology works and that it will feel a little different. Notice that European drivers aren't complaining about it? Edited July 13, 2011 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) No wonder Ford sales are slipping downunder, Ford must be losing a lot of customers like this guy its sad to watch it happen. Ford Australia's customer service look like they have pissed him off big time.. FJM, the guy bought a second hand BA, a 7 year old car. had he put an external oil cooler it, there wouldn't be a problem. Everyone in Australia has known for about 30 years that heat exchangers in radiators eventually failand for the record a fully reconditioned 4-speed box costs $1200 at any good auto transmission rebuilder. Edited July 13, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Notice that European drivers aren't complaining about it? Isn't the PowerShift unit in European Fords and Volvos a different design than the one used in the North American Fiesta and Focus? Please correct me if I'm wrong - I believe the former is a wet clutch design with hydraulic actuation (similar to the VW/Borg Warner DSG transmission), whereas the latter uses dry clutches and solenoid actuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Bingo. I drove manuals off and on for 20 years and I didn't have a problem with it. Also this snippet pretty much confirms it: It's all about managing expectations. This is a great way to alienate customers. Consumers are not interested if they perceive the issue to be a problem which can be solved by buying a different car. And once again, this is not Europe, consumers are very different here. Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, and Chevy understand this...not sure why Ford has forgotten this with the newest Focus. Ford is not VW, unless they want to sell as few cars in the US as they do! Granted the current Focus is a huge hit, but we've seen Ford's quality and customer satisfaction scores plummeting due to these unpolished innovations. Edited July 13, 2011 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yes, and no. If a problem is something that the customer will never get use to, then you need to address it. If it is an issue with the "Feel" and will lend itself to adaptation, then it is a non-issue. For example, when you switch between different operating systems. (Imagine first time switch from Windows to OSX or vice-versa). Of course you will have some people that cannot adapt either way, and they will hate the new thing. You can't really change that. Any time you introduce something new, there will be a lot of people that will freak out. Of course, you can just avoid introduce anything new and just do the same things over and over again, but you can't really make that work over long periods. Eventually technology will change. So it depends on it if is engineering problem or adaptive issue. This is a great way to alienate customers. Consumers are not interested if they perceive the issue to be a problem which can be solved by buying a different car. And once again, this is not Europe, consumers are very different here. Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, and Chevy understand this...not sure why Ford has forgotten this with the newest Focus. Ford is not VW, unless they want to sell as few cars in the US as they do! Granted the current Focus is a huge hit, but we've seen Ford's quality and customer satisfaction scores plummeting due to these unpolished innovations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Isn't the PowerShift unit in European Fords and Volvos a different design than the one used in the North American Fiesta and Focus? Please correct me if I'm wrong - I believe the former is a wet clutch design with hydraulic actuation (similar to the VW/Borg Warner DSG transmission), whereas the latter uses dry clutches and solenoid actuation. Yes, it is wet clutch in Euro spec Fords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yes, it is wet clutch in Euro spec Fords. IIRC, Ford is using the wet-clutch on commercial sleds like the TransitConnect, but the Fiesta and the Focus world-wide are using the dry-clutch Ford-Getrag unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 This is a great way to alienate customers. Consumers are not interested if they perceive the issue to be a problem which can be solved by buying a different car. And once again, this is not Europe, consumers are very different here. Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, and Chevy understand this...not sure why Ford has forgotten this with the newest Focus. Ford is not VW, unless they want to sell as few cars in the US as they do! Granted the current Focus is a huge hit, but we've seen Ford's quality and customer satisfaction scores plummeting due to these unpolished innovations. I wouldn't go so far to call the Powershift 'unpolished', as it is far from it. This is a great example of consumers and their unfamiliarity with new technology. Per most of the comments that I've noticed from the Focus user community, as these transmissions become broken in a lot of the complaints go away. I've noticed a big difference myself, and I only have 700 miles on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I wouldn't go so far to call the Powershift 'unpolished', as it is far from it. This is a great example of consumers and their unfamiliarity with new technology. Per most of the comments that I've noticed from the Focus user community, as these transmissions become broken in a lot of the complaints go away. I've noticed a big difference myself, and I only have 700 miles on mine. Trying to change the behaviors and expectations of a customer to suit your product is a hazardous business plan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If the "experience" is different than what customers are used to, then there's a problem. I'm reading comments about "Clunking"...well traditionally, when you feel/hear clunking, it means you have a shift problem, hence the customer starts to worry and wonder what is wrong. Is "clunking or surging" acceptable? I ask... I wouldn't go so far to call the Powershift 'unpolished', as it is far from it. This is a great example of consumers and their unfamiliarity with new technology. Per most of the comments that I've noticed from the Focus user community, as these transmissions become broken in a lot of the complaints go away. I've noticed a big difference myself, and I only have 700 miles on mine. Well I can get Clunking at times (depending on how I'm driving it) with my 5 speed on my Mustang.... As for the breaking in comment....do you really think its the transmission (often hear this with automatics) or is it just the driver getting adjusted to how it works? I'm really curious to drive one myself to see how it acts up since I've owned nothing but manual transmission cars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Trying to change the behaviors and expectations of a customer to suit your product is a hazardous business plan. Much like going from manual transmissions to automatic transmissions? Offering Sync vs a normal radio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 IIRC, Ford is using the wet-clutch on commercial sleds like the TransitConnect, but the Fiesta and the Focus world-wide are using the dry-clutch Ford-Getrag unit. Ford dry clutch 6DCT250 is being used in North America Fiesta and Focus only so far with max torque 206 ft.lb. The wet clutch 6DCT450 is being used in Fords powertrains outside of North America, with max torque 332 ft.lb. No dry clutch units in Ford cars outside of North America so far, but with some markets getting the 2.0L Ti-VCT 160hp powertrain then the dry clutch 6DCT250 will be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Ford dry clutch 6DCT250 is being used in North America Fiesta and Focus only so far with max torque 206 ft.lb. The wet clutch 6DCT450 is being used in Fords powertrains outside of North America, with max torque 332 ft.lb. No dry clutch units in Ford cars outside of North America so far, but with some markets getting the 2.0L Ti-VCT 160hp powertrain then the dry clutch 6DCT250 will be used. I don't think this is correct. The North America Fiesta uses wet clutch unit. Ford is also about to begin production of Fiesta in Taiwan with this unit. It will be rolled out to European and Chinese Fiesta during the mid cycle update. The dry clutch unit is already being used in Mondeo TDci and 2.0 Ecoboost in many markets and will be in the new European and Asian Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I don't think this is correct. The North America Fiesta uses wet clutch unit. Ford is also about to begin production of Fiesta in Taiwan with this unit. It will be rolled out to European and Chinese Fiesta during the mid cycle update. The dry clutch unit is already being used in Mondeo TDci and 2.0 Ecoboost in many markets and will be in the new European and Asian Focus. The fiesta and the Focus use the Same transmission. the Dry Clutch getrag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I don't think this is correct. The North America Fiesta uses wet clutch unit. Ford is also about to begin production of Fiesta in Taiwan with this unit. It will be rolled out to European and Chinese Fiesta during the mid cycle update. The dry clutch unit is already being used in Mondeo TDci and 2.0 Ecoboost in many markets and will be in the new European and Asian Focus. You have it backwards. Dry clutch is torque constrained and is used in the North American Fiesta and Focus. The Ecoboost and diesel variants must use the wet clutch version to handle the torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Trying to change the behaviors and expectations of a customer to suit your product is a hazardous business plan. How did you pull that from my post? Informing your customer base on how something is intended to work, is not the same thing as changing behaviors and expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Ford Powershift language Dry clutch 6DCT250 is named DPS6 Wet clutch 6DCT450 is named MPS6 Edited July 13, 2011 by MKII 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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