ausrutherford Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Precisely, simplification for intended markets, the low and intermediate trims are probably well suited to Latin American markets where the US buyers are now looking at more well appointed versions, more luxury and better feel, maybe more soft touch plastic? Either way, sourcing Fusion for two locations will help in fine tuning inventories, as well as providing more US jobs - it's all good. Those were deliberately low ball numbers on my part, I guess Hybrid production depends on where the best locations are, but I see that AAI is in Wayne county so it's probably not that far from all Ford's other Hybrid resources either... And then think about a CD4 based Taurus and MKS, that sweetens the pot more by increasing capacity at CAP for more Explorer and police based vehicles...it's all good IMO... I know for one that the Taurus PI is scheduled past the non-PIs lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggoodin Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Although it would be nice to see more jobs come to the US I don't know if I agree with taking the Fusion out of Hermosillo. Quality has been top notch and labor costs have to be low compared to a UAW plant. Now if they feel that the Fusion will sell more then can be produced at one plant then adding a US plant would be a great move. If Lincoln gets it's act together and the new MKZ is really something special and the Fusion continues to gain in sales they will need more production. Sometimes I wonder if a limitation on production is what is holding the Fusion back a little bit. If the product was on the lot there is a real possibility that the Fusion could be battling for first place in midsize sedans. Quality, quality. They build a damn fine car in Mexico. If the Fusions get moved up here we can finally answer the Plant and Equipment or the People question. American jobs don't mean shit if the radio is crooked, the suspension creaks, plastics don't match, edges are rough and irregular, bumpers are crooked, body panel gaps are crooked and so on. No one will buy them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I would suspect that Auto Alliance would also get the new Fusion and MKZ Hybrid and hopefully bigger production numbers than 1,000/month as in past. With so many battery plants going up in MI, it makes sense to make the hybrids here like with Focus and new C-Max. Also I would assume Ford is planning quite a few future plug-in hybrids and maybe next Fusion is being considered for that application. And don't forget a possible Sport or ST Fusion. So production could possibly approach 100,000+/year eventually. Add in another 100,000 or so Mustangs/year and at least the plant would be close to 70% capacity and profitable with fair amount of new lower paid workers. I was going to post a list of reasons why AAI will not get the fusion but I would prefer to list facts. KCAP is getting a new body shop, and other improvements, the plant will go down in April of 2012, and be down 12-16 months for retooling. so KCAP will be back online sometime in the 2H of 2013 AAI: Mazda is rumored to leave AAI by the end of 2012 or 1h 2013. I find it unlikely ford would add a product to the plant until Mazda has gone. If the fusion is rumored to launch in the 2H 2012 where could it be built, that would meet the needs of the all new model? I don't know, I strongly believe that HAP will need to be retooled to build the new model. maybe I am wrong, maybe moving from a mazda based product is a piece of cake. So where could the next Fusion be made that fits it's 2nd half 2012 time frame. MAP? LAP? CAP? It appears Ford is experiencing major issue meeting deadlines, the delay in opening LAP is pushing back to retooling of KCAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Quality, quality. They build a damn fine car in Mexico. If the Fusions get moved up here we can finally answer the Plant and Equipment or the People question. American jobs don't mean shit if the radio is crooked, the suspension creaks, plastics don't match, edges are rough and irregular, bumpers are crooked, body panel gaps are crooked and so on. No one will buy them. I agree... I don't think anyone is impressed with the quality of the Focus right now. It appears that the Ford's best North American car products (Fiesta and Fusion) are assembled in Mexico. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 It appears Ford is experiencing major issue meeting deadlines, the delay in opening LAP is pushing back to retooling of KCAP How is LAP being delayed? The new Escape wasn't supposed to be in production till the end of this year...I wouldn't expect it to be on the dealer lots till next April or so..much like how the 2012 Focus was launched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I agree... I don't think anyone is impressed with the quality of the Focus right now. It appears that the Ford's best North American car products (Fiesta and Fusion) are assembled in Mexico. 'Nuff said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I was going to post a list of reasons why AAI will not get the fusion but I would prefer to list facts. KCAP is getting a new body shop, and other improvements, the plant will go down in April of 2012, and be down 12-16 months for retooling. so KCAP will be back online sometime in the 2H of 2013 AAI: Mazda is rumored to leave AAI by the end of 2012 or 1h 2013. I find it unlikely ford would add a product to the plant until Mazda has gone. If the fusion is rumored to launch in the 2H 2012 where could it be built, that would meet the needs of the all new model? I don't know, I strongly believe that HAP will need to be retooled to build the new model. maybe I am wrong, maybe moving from a mazda based product is a piece of cake. So where could the next Fusion be made that fits it's 2nd half 2012 time frame. MAP? LAP? CAP? It appears Ford is experiencing major issue meeting deadlines, the delay in opening LAP is pushing back to retooling of KCAP Just wanted to preserve this post for everybody's future reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Plant and Equipment or the People question Okay, one, that's not a question and two, even if you phrased it as a question it still wouldn't be a question. This isn't a science experiment where you can control for other factors and evaluate the work output of two factories to form a defensible determination that employees at one plant are 'better' or 'worse' than employees at another plant. Nor is it even remotely defensible to use the work output of two plants as proxies for the quality of work performed in two large countries (US: 3rd largest in population, Mexico 11th). You might as well buy a Whopper in Peoria and a Whopper in Casper and then declare that one of the two towns has better cooks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Okay, one, that's not a question and two, even if you phrased it as a question it still wouldn't be a question. This isn't a science experiment where you can control for other factors and evaluate the work output of two factories to form a defensible determination that employees at one plant are 'better' or 'worse' than employees at another plant. Nor is it even remotely defensible to use the work output of two plants as proxies for the quality of work performed in two large countries (US: 3rd largest in population, Mexico 11th). You might as well buy a Whopper in Peoria and a Whopper in Casper and then declare that one of the two towns has better cooks. A lot of that US vs Mexico and bagging the UAW is preconditioned bias that completely ignores the hard work done by Ford and the UAW to develop vehicles that are easier to build and far more reliable in service. In any case, only about 30,000 of the monthly 180,000 odd sales are built in Mexico. If there was a glaring quality gap, we would have heard about it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Just wanted to preserve this post for everybody's future reference. Kinda burned himself didnt he.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 How is LAP being delayed? The new Escape wasn't supposed to be in production till the end of this year...I wouldn't expect it to be on the dealer lots till next April or so..much like how the 2012 Focus was launched. I guess, I heard production would begin Q3 2011, right now that looks to be Q1 2012, with volume production in Q2 2012. It is late. all news about KCAP had it closing in q4 2011, not it been moved back to april. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 As Thomas Henry Huxley once said, more or less: "The great tragedy of Internet prognostication—the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I just hope the Fusion doesn't drop in quality and reliability...right now it's top in it's segment, and thats not something Ford should risk losing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Why would it drop in reliability? http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2011029 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Newly designed car, in a new plant... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Newly designed car, in a new plant... Fair enough. As long as you're not playing the "American workers is so lazy and dumb" game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Fair enough. As long as you're not playing the "American workers is so lazy and dumb" game. Don't let him fool you. That is exactly what he was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Don't let him fool you. That is exactly what he was thinking. I'm thinking along the same lines as him though. the focus is a pretty good example of new platform + new equipment + new techniques = initial issues. hopefully the lessons learned from the focus can be applied to the fusion and escape. and no that has nothing to do with american or mexican workers. you would face the same learning curve in both countries. welcome back pioneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Don't let him fool you. That is exactly what he was thinking. We've missed you around here. But why did you have to bring FordBuyer back with you? welcome back pioneer. +1 :beerchug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I'm thinking along the same lines as him though. the focus is a pretty good example of new platform + new equipment + new techniques = initial issues. hopefully the lessons learned from the focus can be applied to the fusion and escape. and no that has nothing to do with american or mexican workers. you would face the same learning curve in both countries. welcome back pioneer. + 1 To both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggoodin Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Fusion and Fiesta were new platforms in a new plant with new equipment and techniques. THe only problem out of those 2 were some faulty transmissions on the Fiesta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Well I've had next to no problems with my Mustang built at Flat Rock and thats even after driving it into a back of an Expedition 4 years ago. I have nearly 105K miles on it and no major problems. Keep in mind that the Mustang was a totally new product for Flat Rock at the time. The Fusion when it was first launched wasn't as good in quality till about 2 years later...after the bugs where worked out...which the Focus is experiencing. Edited October 5, 2011 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Don't let him fool you. That is exactly what he was thinking. I wasn't honestly, in fact that branding in generally placed more on Mexicans, and they are picked on for that. But if you believe I did, and it makes you feel better, thats ok by me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 My old Mazda6 built at Flat Rock was pretty rock solid as well. As long as they get the engineering right I don't have any worries that the plant and workers will get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The new Focus "bugs" are mostly with the high tech my Ford Touch gizmos that young kids are demanding, they want to be "entertained" constantly. The plant manufacturing hasn't been the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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