Ford Seeks to Make Lincoln a Glamour Car Again

[RichardJensen]

People with enough taste to wear a black or brown belt. :shades:

This.

 

Lincoln has always been the more restrained luxury brand (well, almost always)

 

Point being: Ford is not trying to radically redefine their market. They're attempting to expand it a bit.

 

GM, on the other hand is attempting to radically dislocate Cadillac, and it's not going well.

 

---

 

Oh, and the Lincoln in that link above? It was followed by something of a classic. So, if you don't mind me rephrasing Edmund Burke: 'You can never predict the future by the past.'

[MKII]

If Cadillac has too many years of white-belt golfing behind it what on earth does Lincoln currently represent?

 

 

In Europe IMO MB represents

Edited December 5, 2011 by MKII

[campbell53]

NOT undecided

don't have the link but I read that the Mustang platform is silo'ed

ie is not planned to support other sized cars.

Of course that won't preclude a Lincoln ...or two: coupecabrio & sportsedan if I have my druthers

 

 

 

 

Hi again, Campbell, some questions for you

• Since the new Fusion doesn't resemble its current version, does it resemble the current Mondeo?

&

• Have you seen the other body styles, hatch & wagon, that have been confirmed for the Mondeo?

&

• If so, I'd love to hear about the differences between the sedan and hatch greenhouses - ie are they very similar like in the current Mondeo or obviously different?

 

It resembles the Mondeo only lightly i.e swept back headlights. More Aston Martin/Evos however with the new signature grill. There are ribs running up the hood which, oddly, remind me of a Sebring. It all works though so don't panic. I have seen nothing regarding additional body styles of the Mondeo.

Edited December 5, 2011 by campbell53

[Fgts]

LOL, Chevrolet should have had their '13 Impala four years ago but Mr. Lutz delayed all of that by first ordering and then

cancelling Zeta Impala at the last minute with no suitable replacement arranged. GM's obsession with Sigma has cost

them close to $5 billion in development costs, Commodore has cost over a Billion by now and Alpha, probably the same...

 

Lutz never caned Zeta, GM did in order to launch the pick-up/suv line faster then when it was "Zeta time" again GM went BK and rwd had nothing to do with it

 

You only have to look at how well the Caprice PPV is selling to see that RWD is not the major player it once was,.

 

Chrysler sold almost 10000 rwd sedans and Ford moved 3000 or so rwd "out of production" rwds 4 doors last month, the Caprice dont sale because no one know about .

 

Sigma was commenced by Holden in 1998 as a global platform for use by them in creating their next gen

Commodore, Caprice with application to Cadillac. The reason Holden gave the project over to the USA was

the insistance by Cadillac that the body be made smaller which ruined its use as a large sedan for Holden.

 

So then Holden starts Zeta for itself and as soon as they do GMNA and lutz are there rtying to get products into

Buick, Pontiac and Chevrolet, ordering them and then cancelling at the last minute.

 

During development of Zeta, Holden showcases the smaller Torana TT36 concept developed from a mixture

of Kappa parts and other platform sections, GM then takes the concept and gives it ti Cadillac who changes it

into a car for themselves and pumps the weight to just under that of a Zeta Commodore...

 

Again mismanagement have nothing to do with rwd.

 

Falcon and Mustang are not being combined, they are continuing as separate projects until at least 2016,

the scales of economy aren't in platform sharing, they're in sharing of power trains, electrical systems and

maybe suspension and front end framing but that's about it. By GM's own admission, Zeta Camaro saved

about 7% of design costs by being on a platform shared with Commodore and Caprice, hardly worth the

effort for Ford especially if the weight and space of Mustang and Falcon vehicles suffer in the process..

 

BMW shows that RWDs can be successful under certain circumstances but by and large, the US car market

now wants FWD/AWD platforms for its mass produced sedans and crossovers..So the flow on from that is

entry level luxury marques like Lincoln, Cadillac and Lexus are far better off utilizing their volume platforms

than expending billions on exclusive platforms that only serve to drive up costs and reduce profits.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, I would love to see RWD Ford sedans in North America but not at the expense

of products better suited to the region. You still have Mustang, we still have Falcon, just be happy with that.

 

No i can't be happy with if I need a performance American rwd 4door I have to go to GM or Chrysler, Ford finally have the most powerful motor line up since the 60s and my choice is an impractical coupe or a heavy big ass truck.

[RichardJensen]

The two companies with RWD sedans are not coincidentally the two companies that went bankrupt.

[NickF1011]

No i can't be happy with if I need a performance American rwd 4door I have to go to GM or Chrysler, Ford finally have the most powerful motor line up since the 60s and my choice is an impractical coupe or a heavy big ass truck.

 

The Taurus SHO isn't an option? :rolleyes:

[MY93SHO]

The Taurus SHO isn't an option? :rolleyes:

 

No, because he's not here to be serious. Just Trollin'. :blah:

[Deanh]

I've seen the new Fusion and I will admit that the front clip has a strong Aston Martin feel to it. The rest of the car not so much (not a bad thing though). It does not resemble the current Fusion in any way. So it is not evolutionary.....it's all new in my book. That can be good or bad. No one who hasnt seen the car will stop and say 'oh what a great looking new Fusion'. They will have to see the badging to know. There will be people who think it's too radical a departure since the current Fusion is selling well and generally highly regarded. I have not seen the new MKZ but I'm told it is also radically different. That's fine with me because the current car doesn't strike anyone as independantly striking or beautiful. Just a nice Fusion upgrade with lots of techy stuff and a good lease payment. A radical departure is needed here for the sake of the car's future. Although I did hear that Job 1 was pushed back because of some styling re-do. We will have 2013 Fusion sitting next to 2012 MKZ. Probably need to blow out the MKZ inventory before that happens.

exactly what i have heard...

[Deanh]

The Mustang that's going to have a 4-cylinder powertrain that gets sold in Europe?

 

Of course, you know that the next Mustang is a world-market car, and that Ford has indicated that it will be slightly smaller and lighter, which means that it will share no platform similarity (other than the use of similar design techniques) at all to the Oz Falcon because the firewall will be unique to the Mustang's RWD lay-out, because the Falcon has to be AWD capable, which means that its floorpan and firewall have to be unique to itself because of transfer-case positioning, etc.

 

Seems like a 4,000 lb Stang is something in your imagination.

next gen Mustang will be lighter I am told, and by quite a bit...

[Edstock]

No, because he's not here to be serious. Just Trollin'. :blah:

 

Sorta like a P-71 with even worse spelling.

[silvrsvt]

Although I did hear that Job 1 was pushed back because of some styling re-do.

 

 

On the Fusion or MKZ?

 

 

 

 

[ausrutherford]

Fusion and MkZ got pushed back from Q1 to Q2. Now the MkZ has been pushed back to late 2012, but so far the Fusion has not.

[Fgts]

Sorta like a P-71 with even worse spelling.

 

And for clarity I said rwd 4 door performance. While the SHO rather good, its not a rwd.

Edited December 5, 2011 by RichardJensen
Grow up.

[fordmantpw]

And for clarity I said rwd 4 door performance. While the SHO rather good, its not a rwd.

 

Sure it is...it powers the rear wheels as well as and front wheels.

[2b2]

Hi again, Campbell, some questions for you

• Since the new Fusion doesn't resemble its current version, does it resemble the current Mondeo?

&

• Have you seen the other body styles, hatch & wagon, that have been confirmed for the Mondeo?

&

• If so, I'd love to hear about the differences between the sedan and hatch greenhouses - ie are they very similar like in the current Mondeo or obviously different?

It resembles the Mondeo only lightly i.e swept back headlights. More Aston Martin/Evos however with the new signature grill. There are ribs running up the hood which, oddly, remind me of a Sebring. It all works though so don't panic. I have seen nothing regarding additional body styles of the Mondeo.

THANKS, Campbell :D

glad we only have to wait until NAIAS - I couldn't last much longer

&

here's the Mondeo info:

Ford to retain three body styles on fourth-generation Mondeo - AutoNews

 

(now if I could just find the new MKS's OrderGuide...)

[Edstock]

And for clarity I said rwd 4 door performance. While the SHO rather good, its not a rwd.

Buy a 300. Or, try driving an SHO.

 

But if you are hard-core RWD, get a new 300.

 

Drove a 2011 last month, really fine car. The interior will never match an MK S, but it doesn't sell at that price-point, and it looks really nice, compared to its mid-price competition, and the original 300's interior. With the new 3.6 V-6 and the 6-speed auto, gets excellent economy and with 300+hp, a Hemi really isn't needed. IIRC, it is slated to get a 7-8-speed transmission, maybe next year. IMHO, for a RWD sedan, it is probably the best value out there.

 

 

 

[mettech]

Buy a 300. Or, try driving an SHO.

 

But if you are hard-core RWD, get a new 300.

 

Drove a 2011 last month, really fine car. The interior will never match an MK S, but it doesn't sell at that price-point, and it looks really nice, compared to its mid-price competition, and the original 300's interior. With the new 3.6 V-6 and the 6-speed auto, gets excellent economy and with 300+hp, a Hemi really isn't needed. IIRC, it is slated to get a 7-8-speed transmission, maybe next year. IMHO, for a RWD sedan, it is probably the best value out there.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunatly... a 300/Charger or SHO are a pigs for someone interested in a true performance 4-door.

Edited December 5, 2011 by mettech

[Deanh]

Unfortunatly... a 300/Charger or SHO are a pigs for someone interested in a true performance 4-door.

well, off the top of your head name a good one , thats affordable....

Edited December 5, 2011 by Deanh

[Edstock]

Unfortunatly... a 300/Charger or SHO are a pigs for someone interested in a true performance 4-door.

And the non-pig "true performance" RWD 4-doors are? Please give us examples.

[2005Explorer]

RWD is out of style and has been for 30 years. Time to move on.

[Boss444]

RWD is out of style and has been for 30 years. Time to move on.

 

Gotta love the "follow not lead" mindset. Imagine if Apple took that mindset.

 

Are you telling me that it's harder to make a successful RWD sedan than it is to make a vehicle that parks itself? Ford already has vehicles that park themselves. Think about that for a moment. Ford already sells vehicles (one of which is at the end of it's life cycle) that parks itself.

 

And people are just willing to throw in the towel on a RWD sedan...how sad.

 

I would have assumed you people would have given Ford more credit than that...

[vision street wear 2]

Having seen both the production Fusion and MKZ (the actual cars that will be at the auto shows) I can tell you they look nothing alike. Directly from Kuzak's mouth....the MKZ and Fusion do not share a single piece of sheetmetal or glass. Whether you like the design or not is a totally different manner. I have to admit I am a bit confused why they are showing the concept MKZ then soon after the production car. The concept is VERY close to the production car.

 

I like the way Toyota handles things. They don't have a lot of concept cars (like Borg stated they can make the production version look very disappointing). They show the production version at a show then in a matter of 2 or 3 months you can buy it. I think it is important to show the production car then be able to start selling it in a very timely manner that way you don't lose the hype surrounding the car. But Ford marketing is doing a pretty incredible job so who am I to say.

[RichardJensen]

Gotta love the "follow not lead" mindset. Imagine if Apple took that mindset.

 

Are you telling me that it's harder to make a successful RWD sedan than it is to make a vehicle that parks itself? Ford already has vehicles that park themselves. Think about that for a moment. Ford already sells vehicles (one of which is at the end of it's life cycle) that parks itself.

 

And people are just willing to throw in the towel on a RWD sedan...how sad.

 

I would have assumed you people would have given Ford more credit than that...

Really? Apple? Really?

 

The last time Apple *led* was with the Apple II. There were GUIs before the Mac ("Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it.") There were windowing unix OSes before OS X, there were portable music players before the iPod, all-in-one computers before the iMac, smart phones before the iPhone, tablets before the iPad. And many Apple innovations have been marginalized or abandoned: Their nonstandard peripheral ports--replaced by USB. Their nonstandard motherboard architecture--replaced by PCI & AGP. Their nonstandard ADP adapter--replaced by DVI and HDMI. SCSI--replaced by IDE and then SATA. The PowerPC chip--replaced by Intel.

 

Saying that Apple is an innovator sadly misplaces what they do well.

 

They have--if not perfected--certainly created the most livable technology in nearly every segment they've entered.

 

---

 

 

And RWD is nowhere near as important as getting FWD right. GM & Chrysler invested in RWD at the expense of FWD. They went bankrupt.

 

It's not a question of throwing in the towel on RWD, it's a question of recognizing its relative unimportance in the entrylevel segments of the market.

[PREMiERdrum]

I have to admit I am a bit confused why they are showing the concept MKZ then soon after the production car. The concept is VERY close to the production car.

 

The concept was originally supposed to be shown at LA alongside the MCE'd MKS and MKT to give a stronger indication on Lincoln's new direction (since the MKS and MKT were so limited in what could be changed), with the production MKZ set up as the showstopper at NAIAS.

 

Wolff's styling changes pushed back the Z's timetable, but curiously they've decided to keep the concept quickly followed by production car plan.

 

My guess? If the MKZ concept steals the show at NAIAS, they'll be in great shape to grab even more attention when the production model is revealed. If the concept is overshadowed by another reveal at NAIAS, like the ATS (which is debuting there), they'll have a 2nd shot at big exposure when the production model is unveiled.

[Fgts]

"And RWD is nowhere near as important as getting FWD right. GM & Chrysler invested in RWD at the expense of FWD. They went bankrupt".

 

This is a wopper right here, Dumpler-Benz and Cerapeus burned an slashed what was Chrysler at the time with th LX cars still made money. GM had "award winning" fwds like the Lumina, Corsica, Cavalier among other horror stories that led to the BK (not to mention the credit freeze). Please prove that one rwd carline led to BK and not what I just said.