FordBuyer Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Click here: Ford Says Operating Profit Substantially Lower in Quarter - Bloomberg Looks like Ford is going to lose a lot more than $600 million outside of North America than previously estimated. Disappointing for Ford and this area, but hopefully North America will continue strong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The Detroit News said that losses outside of North America could come to 570 million. They also said that Ford will turn a profit for the second quarter thanks to Ford NA and Ford Credit. Europe is going to drag everybody down. I wonder how bad it will be for Opel, Fiat, and the French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Meh. Eventually, it will un-tank. I wonder what the stock will be doing 30 years from now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Expect GM to lose more than Ford in Europe. Not sure what will happen to Fiat, PSA, VW, etc. Market seems to have hit a brick wall, not unlike US in what? late '08? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Meh. Eventually, it will un-tank. I wonder what the stock will be doing 30 years from now? I'm more concerned about 15-20 years from now. I plan to retire in 20 years, so I hope the stock does extremely well between now and then! I just wish I had more money available to purchase more shares... Edited June 29, 2012 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Europe is going to drag everybody down. I wonder how bad it will be for Opel, Fiat, and the French. Heck, I wonder how bad it will be for the global economy. But look in the bright side: A European crash would mean lower gas prices here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Heck, I wonder how bad it will be for the global economy. But look in the bright side: A European crash would mean lower gas prices here. Yes, gas prices are dropping like a rock, and that will put some extra purchasing power into everyone's wallet for retail, restaurants, and so on. Kind of like getting a cut in taxes. Not sure why that is not mentioned much. Should help F-Series sales also as investors get all nerved out. However, not long ago Ford said that it estimated it would lose $500 million for whole year in Europe, and I think it was assumed South America and Asia would hang in there. Instead, it was reported Ford will lose up to $600 million in just one quarter alone. Also the cost of launching new Escape and Fusion in same year will start showing up on North American operating profit. That was to be expected, but looks like profit picture outside of here is eroding quickly. I din't know South America was sinking also as I thought Brazil in particular was doing better than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thanks for the Bloomberg article link, FordBuyer. Incidentally, have you revised your investment strategy regarding F, with share prices trading below the $10 mark and getting ever closer to the 52 week low? I'll continue to go long on F on a net basis and continue employing a long straddle strategy. For the July call & put options I'm going with $9 strike price rather than $10 as I had originally planned last month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Expect GM to lose more than Ford in Europe. Not sure what will happen to Fiat, PSA, VW, etc. Market seems to have hit a brick wall, not unlike US in what? late '08? Aren't GM's European operations essentially bankrupt, too? And isn't PSA a basket case that is being propped up by the French government? VW, I would imagine, is heavily supported by global sales outside of Europe. So I'm not sure that Ford of Europe losing money means that it's in bad shape by European standards. Edited June 29, 2012 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstwister Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Stock price down 1/2 of 1% is not tanking. 'Yurp is a big concern but today is a buying opportunity. Just wish I had the cash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Aren't GM's European operations essentially bankrupt, too? And isn't PSA a basket case that is being propped up by the French government? VW, I would imagine, is heavily supported by global sales outside of Europe. So I'm not sure that Ford of Europe losing money means that it's in bad shape by European standards. GM's EU operations have been recapitalized so many times it's not even funny. PSA has an implied backstop from the French government, and VW is benefiting from opaque European accounting wherein, essentially, a big pile of money is reported as income and nobody really asks where it came from. VW, I should say, is doing well in Europe--their EU factories are running at high capacity, but if they properly assigned costs to various regions, I don't think their non-EU results would look so swift. Their operating margin in 2011 was ~7% which looks good until you realize that their VW group operating margin was ~4-5%, which puts it on par with Ford--and Ford's saddled with significantly higher debt service costs. So, no, things aren't hunky-dory with VW either. Edited June 29, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Click here: Ford warning rattles analysts - MarketWatch Analysts are staying strong with Ford, but making earnings adjustments for year. I know I'm long, but I certainly didn't see this big correction coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Because you thought that the Germans were aware of Franklin's famous dictum that 'We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Because you thought that the Germans were aware of Franklin's famous dictum that 'We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately'? Slightly off topic, I recall a good post from you a few years back regarding, boom/bust around the globe with multinationals like Ford trading in regions that may be doing well while others are flat or negative. I think that's part of casting a wide net for global products, controlling costs and maximizing sales. Edited June 30, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Top 10 most profitable cars in the world 1. RWD Ford F series 2. RWD GM full-sized pickups 3. RWD Dodge Ram 4. RWD Mercedes S class 5. RWD BMW 5 series 6. RWD BMW 3 series 7. RWD Mercedes E class 8. AWD Lexus RX SUV 9. AWD Jeep Grand Cherokee 10. FWD Honda Accord European Car Sales January to April 2012. High volume producers of high quality, high profit margin cars. RWD Mercedes Benz C class 56,319 RWD BMW 3 series 54,877 RWD BMW 5 series 42,154 RWD Mercedes Benz E class 37,313 Low Volume Producer of mass produced low profit cars. FWD Ford Mondeo 27,194 Bring a nice RWD Lincoln to Europe with BMW type handling thats handling is currently the best in the world second to none at the moment, then watch those profits boom in Europe. RWD Ford Cortina/Taunus was always the No1 best selling car all brands all models in Europe, what gone wrong they can't even beat what used to be very low volume quality car makers in sales these days, or return in a nice decent tidy profit? Nearly 27,000 of 30,000 Mondeo sales sold in 2010 in the UK were sold by mass dumping of Mondeo's in low no profit fleet/ rentalcar rental markets. Why not build cars that attract private buyers as well like good ole Cortina/Taurus once did, rather than just sell huge batches of Mondeos sold on the cheap with a big discount to fleet/rental companies at no profit? Ford Australia where you get a choice of RWD/FWD Sales Jan- May 2012 RWD Holden Commodore 13,117 RWD Falcon 5,415 RWD Falcon Ute 2,338 FWD Mondeo 2,118. Ford UK RWD Cortina v FWD Mondeo Yearly Sales Numbers. 1979 Ford Cortina 193,784 (Wiped out British Leyland to give the Mondeo an easy sales ride today) 2011 Ford Mondeo 20,297 (Trading on Mk4 Cortina's bomb proof durability is fading fast in the memory of Brits) FWD Mundane Mondeo the epic failure for Ford. GM are not doing much better they have lost $16 billions in Europe in the last decade, the worst decade ever for GM in living memory. Mind you they had the best selling car in UK in May the Vauxhall Corsa, but its no good selling them at a massive loss. Just give us back a choice just one RWD Ford/Lincoln car in Europe and watch Fords profits soar, rather than no choice, no Ford RWD option. Edited June 30, 2012 by Ford Jellymoulds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Meh. Eventually, it will un-tank. I wonder what the stock will be doing 30 years from now? Stock will probable match this graph Ed, sad to say. Fuel prices in 30 years time will be sky high in 2042 as fossil fuels become nearly depleted the scary big dipper roller coaster ride down will be just bottoming out just about to end, EV's will still be to expensive for the masses, China is sitting on and will have brought up all remaining rare earth mines, and Ford will be relying on a "Ford of Europe" type line-up as it business plan, nobody will be able to afford to fill-up a high profit yielding RWD F-Series pick-up truck or a RWD Stang just like when oil it $148 a barrel tipped GM & MOPAR into bankruptcy and Ford got by because it remorgaged itself, sold off the family silver Herz, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover & Volvo that were brought with profits from F-Series & ye good ole Cortina in the past . Europe sky high fuel prices are like the canary down the coal mine, a warning of whats to come. Ford USA having to use Ford of Europes huge loss making, all FWD line-up as a business plan in the future :fan: 2042 what a scary thought Ed, Ford USA sitting on a Ford of Europe all FWD line-up business plan as a means of survival, that they and GM can't make pay its way at the moment in Europe, that will be known as those good ole "Noughties" days when GM only used to only lose $16 billions in a decade on it all FWD line-up, things were so great back then with such small losses. 2042 :bike: it will be more like "Le 2012 Tour De France" on UK roads and overrun with 1-pot Fiat 500 Single-Airs Ed. Edited June 30, 2012 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Click here: Ford warning rattles analysts - MarketWatch Analysts are staying strong with Ford, but making earnings adjustments for year. I know I'm long, but I certainly didn't see this big correction coming. FB, you seem reasonably experienced. Surely you can see all the mindless amateurs who flood the marketplace are the target for these "The Sky Is Falling!" reports, so is it any surprise to see "corrections" like this, as the lemmings react with panic? Please remember that on a day-to-day basis, market trading is really only indicative of how the hard-of-thinking are knee-jerking. Others remember that, barring major upset, Ford should be selling vehicles 100 years from now, which puts these "corrections" in perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Stock will probable match this graph Ed, sad to say. Fuel prices in 30 years time will be sky high in 2042 as fossil fuels become nearly depleted the scary big dipper roller coaster ride down will be just bottoming out just about to end, EV's will still be to expensive for the masses, China is sitting on and will have brought up all remaining rare earth mines, and Ford will be relying on a "Ford of Europe" type line-up as it business plan, nobody will be able to afford to fill-up a high profit yielding RWD F-Series pick-up truck or a RWD Stang just like when oil it $148 a barrel tipped GM & MOPAR into bankruptcy and Ford got by because it remorgaged itself, sold off the family silver Herz, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover & Volvo that were brought with profits from F-Series & ye good ole Cortina in the past . Europe sky high fuel prices are like the canary down the coal mine, a warning of whats to come. Ford USA having to use Ford of Europes huge loss making, all FWD line-up as a business plan in the future :fan: 2042 what a scary thought Ed, Ford USA sitting on a Ford of Europe all FWD line-up business plan as a means of survival, that they and GM can't make pay its way at the moment in Europe, that will be known as those good ole "Noughties" days when GM only used to only lose $16 billions in a decade on it all FWD line-up, things were so great back then with such small losses. 2042 :bike: it will be more like "Le 2012 Tour De France" on UK roads and overrun with 1-pot Fiat 500 Single-Airs Ed. Over react much? you really think in 20 years ev's will still be too expensive for people to drive? especially if your sky is falling graph becomes reality and gas is probably over $10/gallon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I think Ford in Europe as far as over capacity issues are concerned, is in much better shape the most. Or at least that is what is being reported over here. In the Estonian market which is one of the rare EU markets year to date in the plus category, the discounting being offered by all makers (yes including VW) gives the impression how tough sales are. And the heaviest discounting is from Audi, BMW and Volvo with discounts as high as Euro10,000.00. The non premium brands average discounting range is Euro3,000.00 to Euro5,000.00. Hell of a time for the consumer to grab some really fine deals. There must be serious discounting going on in the big markets like France, Spain, Italy and the like. Ford Estonia has been running a campaign on the Focus Trend (SE trim in USA) with the base engine 1.6L 105hp with a Euro3,000.00 discount and the Mondeo Titanium with the 2.0L 145hp engine with a Euro3,100 discount. No discounting on the Ecoboost or diesels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) I think Ford in Europe as far as over capacity issues In the Estonian market which is one of the rare EU markets year to date in the plus category, the discounting being offered by all makers (yes including VW) gives the impression how tough sales are. . Ford Estonia has been running a campaign on the Focus Trend (SE trim in USA) with the base engine 1.6L 105hp with a Euro3,000.00 discount and the Mondeo Titanium with the 2.0L 145hp engine with a Euro3,100 discount. No discounting on the Ecoboost or diesels. Ford of Estonia yearly sales - 2011 Mondeo 232 Top 10 Best selling cars in Estonia in 2011 1. Skodia Octavia 953 2. Nissan Qashqai 661 3. Toyota Avensis 564 4. Renault Megane 554 5. VW Golf 519 6. Saburu Legacy 504 7. Honda CR-V 444 8. Hyundai i30 402 9. Skoda Superb 372 10. Opel Astra 348 Great to see you are having a massive sales boom up 12.8% in Estonia MKII, lots are down Finland -47%, Greece -47%, Italy -19% Portugal - 42% % Serbia -30%. Why is the Mondeo getting outsold by the Octavia, Avensis, Megane, Superb, Passat in Estonia MKII? Great to see you sold 232 Mondeo's MKII in Estonia in 2011, only 722 more sales and the Mondeo could have been No1. What you need MKII in Estonia to become No 1 is something like our good old Cortina. 1979 Ford Cortina 193,784 sales (Wiped out British Leyland to give the Mondeo an easy sales ride today) 2011 Ford Mondeo 20,297 sales (Trading on Mk4 Cortina's bomb proof durability is fading fast in the memory of Brits) Edited June 30, 2012 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmkor9WF0U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmkor9WF0U But Ford don't listen to crickets chirping Atomcat so whats the point, they are stone deaf. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyJRXvPNRo UK FWD Mondeo/RWD BMW 3 Series Sales 2005 Mondeo 57,589 BMW 3 series 44,834 2006 Mondeo 48,021 BMW 3 series 50,248 2007 Mondeo 47,800 BMW 3 series 49,384 2008 Mondeo 44,150 BMW 3 series 58,544 2009 Mondeo 34,418 BMW 3 series 39,029 2010 Mondeo 30,115 BMW 3 series 42,020 2011 Mondeo 20,428 BMW 3 series 42,471 1979 Cortina faced the axe - 193,784 UK sales, Ford don't listen to crickets chirping. European Car sales 2011 RWD Mercedes Benz C class 178,345 RWD BMW 3 Series 166,860 RWD BMW 5 Series 143,804 RWD Mercedes Benz E class 130,290 FWD Ford Mondeo 87,890 (20,428 of those from the UK, 232 from our hard working friend MKII in Estonia) Low volume high quality cars, now outsell what used to be high volume mass produced cars, the RWD Cortina/Taunus was No1 in Europe in the past, Ford don't listen to crickets chirping Top 10 most profitable cars in the world since 1990 (Where the big profits are being generated) 1. RWD Ford F series - profits $50 billions 2. RWD GM full-sized pickups - profits $40 billions 3. RWD Dodge Ram - profits $18 billions 4. RWD Mercedes S class - profits $18 billions 5. RWD BMW 5 series - profits $24 billions with X5 6. RWD BMW 3 series - profits $17 billions 7. RWD Mercedes E class - profits $13 billions 8. AWD Lexus RX SUV - profits $12 billions 9. AWD Jeep Grand Cherokee - profits $11 billions 10. FWD Honda Accord - profits $7 billions GM have made losses of $16 billions with its FWD only car line-up in Europe in the last decade, Ford of Europe will lose $600 millions this year. Ford of Europe don't hear crickets in Europe Atomcat, sad to say. Edited July 1, 2012 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The Lexus RX is primarily FWD. AWD is an option. (For that matter, the Grand Cherokee is primarily RWD, with AWD being an option.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The Lexus RX is primarily FWD. AWD is an option. (For that matter, the Grand Cherokee is primarily RWD, with AWD being an option.) And don't forget how many of all those "RWD" trucks are actually 4x4. FJ, your posts get more and more ridiculous every time. And you've gotten your last warning about your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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